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OT: J.J. McCarthy Threatening to Hold Out of Camp

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From the QB thread before the draft ...

Nix will get a long look from Payton and guys like that. I (and many other tbh) remember mentioning that we would see an increase in 2hi looks a few years ago to limit the explosive state of the league and you see what happened last year. I could see alot of teams recognizing the current state (dink/dunk, possession, schemed touches to big time targets) and taking a chance of building a strong offense that way. Denver is a cap hell for a few years. So a rookie QB is the only way they get out from this respectfully.

From PFF

?Nix
Deep (20+): 11.8%
Medium (10-19): 18.3%
Short (0-9): 41.7%
Behind LOS: 28.2%


NFL 23 Reg/PO
Deep (20+): 11.4%
Medium (10-19): 20.2%
Short (0-9): 51.8%
Behind LOS: 16.6%

What Nix was asked to do neatly fits in with how the NFL looked last year.

Nix will definitely impress decision makers whether they opt for him or not. He knows his stuff playing in 5 different offenses (although a few weren't that different) in as many years. Well spoken. Hard worker. Obviously a smart prospect. Whether it's from a collective pov with how impressive it is to gather and use all that knowledge. Or him on the board breaking down a concept. He'll make a few new fans of decision makers after seeing him up close.

“I’ve never been around a quarterback like Bo that understands what we’re trying to accomplish so well,” Oregon coach Dan Lanning said. “And there’s times that we’re there as a coaching staff on the sidelines saying, ‘OK wait, wait, what is he checking to? Oh, all right. Good, that’ll work.’ And he gets it right a lot more often than not.”

“It was a good check by Bo, so it was pretty wide open,” James said. “I know when Bo makes a check he sees something.”





I bring a lot of the above up bc arguably the most important or underrated aspect of playing QB is survival. A check down or throw away instead of forcing something that might result in a negative play. At Oregon Nix learned how to be efficient and productive (career highs on pass attempts, YA, comp %, pass rating and he ran for almost 800 yds for 20 TD in 2 years) within a scheme that didn't ask too much of him as a processor. And this is the big thing with Oregon, right? What they ask of you vs what can you do. It's clear Nix can do at least a little more of what's asked imo bc of his efficiency, experience and athleticism. He'll most likely always need a strong leader to guide him at times but hes clearly not someone you can't trust or needs his hand held 247. He's a "baker" not a "chef" (credit to Mark Schofield - one of the best descriptions of the different types of QBs) Someone who if given the right ingredients can make you something nice. He needs a recipe, all the right ingredients and necessities though. As opposed to a chef who can put his touch on the recipe after reading it once. Can make do with a "little of this or that" if he doesn't have the perfect ingredients. There's a place for guys like that though, clearly. From Auburn to Oregon- He went from under 200 ypg to almost 330. Comp % from under 58 to almost 80. Sacks went down. Passing rating jumped. When he had the right staff and talent around him he produced at a high level.

Obviously has leadership qualities. Known for being accountable but also not being afraid of confrontation or an uncomfortable conversation with teammates or coaches.

He does lock onto the occasional target (not all plays are designed to go through 5 different targets, youve got to be quick decisive) but he can hold, move, manipulate defenders. Changes the play if he sees something. Very solid pre-snap understanding- from his blocking protection to immediately identifying where the saf are. All this leads to a terrific mental clock. Again he knows how long he'll likely have on a play, can recognize pressure, knows where his targets are. Very good situational awareness and poise in the pocket. I liked what I saw there. It can't be said enough the jump that occurred at Oregon. This has easily become a bright spot on his resume of late.

Very quick, powerful release. Displays arm flexibility, dials above average velocity and strength on all passes that require it. He's definitely worked on his delivery. He's got it down now. Above average velocity but he's got a decent change up. Can layer pretty well between 15-30 yards to the perimeter and mof. At times too much of a fastball without touch. Uses different arm slots for short/intermediate stuff.




Tough QB that has gained respect on and off the field everywhere he's been. Every teammate former and present has something nice and complementary to say about him. Whether it's from standing in the pocket taking a hit on a big play, running for a 1st down, learning a new offense, holding himself accountable. Hes made fans everywhere he's gone.

Uses his athletic to extend and scramble rather than take off. Quick, comfortable and agile in a short area. It's a last resort for him. Usually a smart runner knows where he is on the field. He wants to pass but will run when it's called for. Again almost 800 yards, 20 TD, > 5 per clip.




Accuracy and decision making do take a dip under pressure. He's improved his poise but like Maye his footwork leads to a drop in accuracy.

He's athletic, tough, smart and fits with what a lot of teams want to do. Be efficient. Protect and run the ball - RPO, select down field shots and able to scramble and use your legs if necessary. You're not going to be asking a ton of him as a passer right away or ever considering he's a 5th year guy - almost 70% of his passes were behind the los or within 10 yards. Again he's a "baker" not a "chef." He needs a set table to work off but he's a decent option if you're in cap hell like the Broncos are.

...
I'm not surprised things are going well in Denver. Nix is a guy that takes to coaching, wants to be coached. I'm interested in seeing how things work put bc that team has some talent on both sides. I mentioned the great Mark Schofield's analogy of explaining how QB's are "bakers" and "chefs" which fits with Nix's M.O. He wants/needs a guy like SP on the sidelines.
 
I think the bonus is guaranteed. It's just a matter if it get all get paid up front or in installments. The downside if it's installments is that the Vikings can reneg on the balance if JJ gets cut for conduct unbecoming, and even then, it would be contested.
I'm sure Justin Jefferson will be ecstatic to play with Sam darnold.!
 
Good. The more competition for the Queefs in that division the better.
The weakness of the rest of the AFCW doesn't seem to get the same amount of play as the supposed weakness of the AFCE when the Pats were dominating.
 
Good. The more competition for the Queefs in that division the better.
Agree. Unless PM subscribes to the Alex Guerrero plan I don't see him playing until 40.. or Reid coaching into his 70s.. therefore no one is catching up with 8.. people forget we went 10 years in between winning a Lombardi.... just thought I'd mention this!
 
Curran had a love affair for him.. probably the only time I ever disagree with curran.. Drake as NFL GMs and scouts all agreed he was the best QB prospect. It's funny Drake had no problem signing his contract!
I'm so glad we didn't trade back and settle for McCarthy. There's a big danger that the national championship game inflated his draft value beyond his actual abilities. Just look at the example of Mac Jones.
 
I'm so glad we didn't trade back and settle for McCarthy. There's a big danger that the national championship game inflated his draft value beyond his actual abilities. Just look at the example of Mac Jones.
JJ does have a better arm and guts unlike Jones but he just didn't do it enough for me on the College level. I think JJ should have stayed another year I also thought Quinn Ewers was better.
 
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I'm so glad we didn't trade back and settle for McCarthy. There's a big danger that the national championship game inflated his draft value beyond his actual abilities. Just look at the example of Mac Jones.
True.

Jones was 5th QB drafted in his class. All else being equal that seems about right. Glad the Pats didn't trade up for him. Nobody could have predicted that the other QB's sans Lawrence would have flamed out.
 
I'm so glad we didn't trade back and settle for McCarthy. There's a big danger that the national championship game inflated his draft value beyond his actual abilities. Just look at the example of Mac Jones.

Not saying McCarthy will be good, but it’s worth noting the difference in pedigrees between Jones and McCarthy. Mac Jones was a middling three-star recruit with an 87 rating who was headed to Kentucky before Alabama took a flyer on him. His only other good offer was Texas A&M. McCarthy had a 97 rating with tons of blue blood offers. Lots of talent evaluators at the college level thought McCarthy was a far superior QB.
 
JJ does have a better arm and guts unlike Jones but he just didn't do it enough for me on the College level. I think JJ should have stayed another year I also thought Quinn Ewers was better.
Whether he is ready for the NFL now or not, JJ picked the right time to come out from his career perspective. Some teams would prefer a redshirt year as opposed to having the player develop more bad habits in college. Players stay another year to improve their draft position. JJ took a risk and got lucky to get drafted pretty high in the first round draft. Now he is getting paid to focus on improving his game without worrying about getting injured before he gets his money.
 
I'm so glad we didn't trade back and settle for McCarthy. There's a big danger that the national championship game inflated his draft value beyond his actual abilities. Just look at the example of Mac Jones.
Agreed. I know Curran was obsessed with him.. he seems like he could be a nice pro.. but Drake IMO feels like the right choice.. the more I see and hear about Drake the more you like the guy.

GMs and scouts all said that Drake was the best prospect in the draft.
 
Whether he is ready for the NFL now or not, JJ picked the right time to come out from his career perspective. Some teams would prefer a redshirt year as opposed to having the player develop more bad habits in college. Players stay another year to improve their draft position. JJ took a risk and got lucky to get drafted pretty high in the first round draft. Now he is getting paid to focus on improving his game without worrying about getting injured before he gets his money.
Minnesota wanted Drake and so did many other teams... the giants as well. He walked into an excel offense with an excellent offensive minded coach in O' Connell. Whatever is holding up him singing his deal he needs to look at who he's throwing the ball too!
 
Minnesota wanted Drake and so did many other teams... the giants as well. He walked into an excel offense with an excellent offensive minded coach in O' Connell. Whatever is holding up him singing his deal he needs to look at who he's throwing the ball too!
From what I read when Maye signed his contract, the only thing to negotiate with these rookie deals is the payout schedule for the bonus. The money is the same at the end of the contract. If that is the case, I can't see that being a hill to die on for either side. Hopefully there is no lingering relationship issue.
 
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From what I read when Maye signed his contract, the only thing to negotiate with these rookie deals is the payout schedule for the bonus. The money is the same at the end of the contract. If that is the case, I can't see that being a hill to die on for either side. Hopefully there is no lingering relationship issues.
Your right. It has to be something small. JJ needs to be on his agents to get it done.. he needs to beat ou darnold wich should not be hard.. remember when QB'S drafted were getting those 60 million contracts and hadn't played a down in the NFL.. like Sam Bradford... ?
 
Your right. It has to be something small. JJ needs to be on his agents to get it done.. he needs to beat ou darnold wich should not be hard.. remember when QB'S drafted were getting those 60 million contracts and hadn't played a down in the NFL.. like Sam Bradford... ?
Yes rookies were making more than established vets who were on their second contracts.
 
Imagine not having to show up for work and already have made 10s of millions..
That’s where dedication and commitment come in and where the scouts earn their money. You have to know how the kid will act once he’s paid. I’m not concerned about Drake in that regard in the slightest.
 
I see this as a red flag if I'm the Vikings front office - meaning McCarthy doesn't think he'll get another contract in the future. However, I do think contracts need to be guaranteed which would also help reduce the overpaying of players.
JJ McCarthy should not care how they pay out his signing bonus over the next five years. If he gets Drake Maye money, he'll get $3M/year in salary above and beyond the signing bonus. He can live on that. If he's an average starter, he can sign a contract in 2028 for what? $25M/year? If he stinks and can be a backup, he can make Jacoby Brissett money which is $7.8M this year.

If I were JJ McCarthy, I'd ask for the team to put the signing bonus into a tax-deferred Warren Buffett style dividend paying mutual fund and pay me 50% of the quarterly dividends for the rest of my life, and then go play football for as long as I can compete. It would not matter whether his career is four years or fifteen . Even if he squandered all of the income he receives, he'd still have over $60 million at age 70.

The money these guys make is ridiculous.
 
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JJ McCarthy should not care how they pay out his signing bobus over the next five years. If he gets Drake Maye money, he'll get $3M/year in salary above and beyond the signing bonus. He can live on that. If he's an average starter, he can sign a contract in 2028 for what? $25M/year? If he stinks and can be a backup, he can make Jacoby Brissett money which is $7.8M this year.

If I were JJ McCarthy, I'd ask for the team to put the signing bonus into a tax-deferred Warren Buffett style dividend paying mutual fund and pay me 50% of the quarterly dividends for the rest of my life, and then go play football for as long as I can compete. It would not matter whether his career is four years or fifteen . Even if he squandered all of the income he receives, he'd still have over $60 million at age 70.

The money these guys make is ridiculous.
I suspect McCarthy is getting bad advice from his agent. He should fire his agent and start over.
 
I suspect McCarthy is getting bad advice from his agent. He should fire his agent and start over.
He needs a new agent and a new financial advisor.

Of course, it is just possible that he is ignoring the advice of this agent.
 
McCarthy has all the leverage... it's not like he has to beat out anyone other than darnold first round bust.
Does he?

I don't know much about contracts but I'm assuming if he holds out he gets zero dollars, has no access to facilities, and is basically in limbo until he signs. Enjoy the CFL at a fraction of the salary, during which time MN will continue to hold your rights so you won't be able to play in the NFL at any point.

If I'm MN I'll wait him out and let Darnold take the snaps. It's not like Minnesota is contending for a championship, and they are likely finishing last in the division regardless of who is under center.
 
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