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OT: Eli Manning announces retirement

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by sb1, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. CheekyDave

    CheekyDave Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Living here in NY I am not surprised but also astounded by how passionate the local are about Manning. When I post no way is he HOF worthy, the reaction was truly as if I had just defiled their Mother. Fans in NY have a malignant NEED for all of their stars to burn brighter than all others. To them, it is a 100% slam dunk.
     
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  2. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People don’t know what it means to be great anymore.
     
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  3. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The barometer last year was that he's probably not a hall of famer, or maybe borderline. Now that he's retiring, he's the most treasured athlete in American history and suddenly a slam dunk. The two Super Bowl wins have just continued to grow in importance with each year as his actual play has confirmed his average-ness season after season. They become more and more legendary to make up for Mr. Coin Flip at 116-116. Combination of his last name and city had him in the Hall of Fame before his career began.

    Meanwhile, the NY media is whining that Derek Jeter was ommited on one ballot as a Hall of Famer. His incredible ability to not cheat (with steroids that is, not on his wife all the time) has apparently made him the greatest player of the 1990s/2000s. Guy was a very good player and deserves to be in the Hall, but this unanimous stuff is more NY crap. I don't think Jeter was ever a top-10 player in baseball at any given time. Guys like Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Albert Pujols, Ken Griffey Jr were less deserving? Ha ha!
     
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  4. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    NYC has never had a QB hero at the level of Brady. QB is the ultimate position in American sports, and Eli is the closest they have to an "elite QB." It's quite sad, actually.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  5. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Joe Namath was an elite QB. People just don't understand how to interpret stats from the 1960s and 1970s. Bolded are individual accomplishments. Most are AFL but show that he played at a very high level. Overall, that's the equivalent of 5 all-pros, and 2 MVPs...even if they are just AFL, that's an elite player, not an average one like Eli.

     
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  6. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah...nothing like Brady, Montana, Elway, etc. And in recent times, the GOAT of NY QBs has been Eli and Simms.
     
  7. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Eli was an extremely durable QB that was exceedingly average. He played a long time in a QB era so was able to compile some counting stats that will keep him in the top 10 for a handful more years. His below average QB rating and high interceptions will get even more exposed as time goes on as ratings in the 100's become the norm and interceptions become more rare. Had a handful of clutch throws in big games and should be remembered for his Super Bowl wins but falls well short of HOF in my book.
     
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  8. Koma

    Koma In the Starting Line-Up

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    I never thought of it that way. That explains the almost reflexive need of the NY media to immediately anoint guys like Sanchez and Darnold as superstars as well as providing some insight of why they nitpick Brady and claim Belichick dreams of coaching the Giants.

    With regard to Eli, I've seen Giants fans on other boards acknowledge that the team has been too loyal to him and he hasn't been as effective as he needs to be for several years. Of course, there's also a contingent that refuses to blame Eli for any problems. Their argument is that all Eli needed was a great o-line, top-shelf receivers, a terrific running game, a good defense and a great coach. If he just had those pieces in place, he'd be one of the best QBs in the league. All I could think of was "Is that all he needed?"
     
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  9. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not saying Namath is anywhere near GOAT territory or even top 10. Just saying he does in fact have a legit case for Hall of Fame beyond New York bias, even before you consider the Super Bowl III story. A lot of people will say "he threw more INTs than TDs" and laugh at his stats and passer rating, but they don't understand the times he played in. He was actually an elite quarterback. My point is many will argue that Namath is the worst QB in the Hall of Fame, when you just consider him as a player and not the mythical NY/upset story, and they are probably right as he is like the lowest bar to clear. But his career was far, far better than Eli, who would become the worst QB in the Hall by an almost unimaginable margin.

    Pretty much every QB in the Hall of Fame was considered a top-5 QB at worst during their careers, Namath included. Only exception might be Moon. But Eli was never considered top-5 and was often debated as top 15 (average) or below. That is just so far off from Hall standards. I think even with three Super Bowls it would be a difficult argument unless he was actually a great player for a decent amount of time. He only won 8 postseason games...it's not like this guy was a perennial playoff gamer who was always in the mix. Zero postseason wins outside the two unlikely runs, where he wasn't even that great individually. So much revisionist history dedicated to try to make this guy seem worthy.
     
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  10. Lavictoire

    Lavictoire Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Glad we got to see him get benched.
     
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  11. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up Weekly Picks Winner

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    There's backhanded compliments and then there's this...

    The Hall of Eli

    Regards,
    Chris
     
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  12. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sign the beast!
     
  13. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Pro Bowl Player

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    My stance has been mentioned already in this thread. If he gets in (when he gets in is more like it) I take serious issue if he is first ballot. Honestly, NY hate aside, he shouldn’t get in. If they want to compromise and let him in the 4th 5th 6th try because he beat the Big Bad hated Patriots twice then so be it. First or 2nd ballot is a slap in the face to anyone in the Hall Of Fame, or anyone that has aspirations to be there one day.
     
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  14. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Joe Namath has already been in for a while, so I don't think the bar is high for quarterbacks.
     
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  15. raduray

    raduray PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  16. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    I expected Gronk to retire like this...make a formal announcement and then have a press conference.
     
  17. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    If Eli gets in then a dozen other QB's from this era should get in as well. THat's not how it is supposed to work.

    Be one of top 3 or 4 at position for multiple years
    Personal accolades (pro bowls, MVPs)
    Have superior career stats
    Win a lot of games
    Have post season success

    The only box Eli checks is he had post season success in 2 seasons. His per game stats are below average for this era so while I'll give him some credit for durability am not impressed with counting stats.

    For those that bring up top 10 in TD's and passing yards my retort is that Vinnie Testaverde was 6th and 7th in those categories at the time of his retirement. Playing OK for a very long time does not somehow make you great.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  18. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Yet another reason why I truly, sincerely despise Screw York Sh!tty & the surrounding Swamplands, aka the Armpit of America.
     
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  19. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Pro Bowl Player

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    Different times. At that point the selection process was different as in not a whole lot to choose from. The league ran a ton. As mediocre as he would be to todays standards, probably even terrible, he helped bridge the gap between the NFL and AFL which sort of makes him a pioneer so to speak. So I don’t have a problem at all with him being in.
     
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  20. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Besides in NY, where his legend will grow more and more outlandish each year, his Hall argument will not age well. Think of how different things are now than five years ago, at the conclusion of the 2014-15 season. So many new players, storylines, excitement. Eli’s Hall of Fame case is certainly passionately argued on the day of his retirement. In 2025, there will be a lot of time to put his career into perspective and consider how poorly he compared to his peers and other current players.

    I think Roethlisberger is the lowest bar for this generation of QBs. No Rivers, no Eli. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger. They are the elite quarterbacks, though even Roethlisberger is overrated IMO when it comes to the Hall of Fame. Think he’ll get in but has never been in an MVP discussion...Super Bowl performances weren’t very good with the exception of one iconic pass. I’d vote him in but would say he is definitely not a SLAM DUNK Hall of Fame guy as often described. Rivers is also often described as a “future Hall of Famer.” The only player like him is Warren Moon, and Moon was much better.
     
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