OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[crawhammer]

LOL

-two picks vs Seattle in SB 49 (to jeremy lane and bobby wagner)

-pick 6 vs Atlanta in SB 51 (to robert alford)

-INT in end zone vs Carolina in SB 38 with 7 minutes remaining in 4th quarter

-INT vs NYG in SB 46 (to chase blackburn)

-intentional grounding vs NYG in SB 46

-most INTs thrown in playoffs in NFL history

What's your point? Montana's the real GOAT? You'd be one of the very few to still maintain that position. I think most people have accepted the idea that Brady has completely blown away all other quarterbacks by now. Like it's not even remotely close anymore.

The Lane pick in SB 49 wasn't a pick 6 either. In fact Seattle got 0 points out of it.

Brady's 4th quarter vs Seattle in SB 49:
13-for-15 (86.7%), 124 yards, 2 TDs
Led game-winning drive

The pick 6 vs Atlanta was a low point for sure in SB 51 but Brady more than made up for it.

Brady's 4th quarter (& OT) vs Atlanta in SB 51:
21-for-26 (80.8%), 246 yards, 1 TD
Led game-winning drive

Brady's 4th quarter vs Carolina in SB 38:
13-for-19 (68.4%), 136 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Led game-winning drive

Brady led game winning drives in all 6 of the Patriots Super Bowl wins.

He led would-be game winning drives in the two SB losses to NYG but on both occasions the defense gave up touchdowns with less than a minute left in the game.

He threw for 505 in the loss to Philly so I don't think we're putting that one on Brady.

And yes, he's the career postseason leader in INT's.

He's also the career postseason and Super Bowl leader in all of these categories:
Passes Attempted
Passes Completed
Passing Yards
Passing TD
Wins
Game-Winning Drives
Fourth Quarter Comebacks
SB MVP's

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yea, that's not what Bill said.

"I am privileged to have drafted and coached Tom Brady, the ultimate competitor and winner," Belichick said in a statement. "Tom's humble beginning in professional football ultimately ended with him becoming the best player in NFL history."

The best player. Not QB. PLAYER!

Unless you think Bill is a liar, the defense rests. Case closed.

Yeah, Bill also said LT was the best player he's ever coached...

 

[venecol]

Yeah, Bill also said LT was the best player he's ever coached...

So you're saying Bill is a liar.

 

[VectorPrime]

Brady in the 4th quarter against the historically great Legion of Boom was the best football ever played by a quarterback. Ever. He stared down one of the generations best defenses and did literally whatever he wanted against them.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So you're saying Bill is a liar.

You mean the same guy who can't text the right Brian?

Brady in the 4th quarter against the historically great Legion of Boom was the best football ever played by a quarterback. Ever. He stared down one of the generations best defenses and did literally whatever he wanted against them.

Jeremy Lane injured on the Brady INT and Sherman had a busted arm from the NFCCG. They had some guy name Tharold Simon playing CB for most of the game lol. Not the same legion of boom from 2013. Brady played well but let's not act as if the Seahawks in 2014 were the 85 Bears.

 

[crawhammer]

Belichick did unequivocally state in the Brady retirement letter that Brady is the best player in NFL history. Which Brady is. However, I'm not sure Belichick genuinely sees it that way, which is ridiculous, considering he had a front row seat for 20 years. He also very well could mean it, again, I don't know.

Nitpicking Brady's undeniably incredible Super Bowl performances is really comical. Montana had one entirely brilliant postseason ('89). He was really shaky in his first two SB winning postseasons. He also had a really bad stretch of 3 consecutive postseason losses in his prime when he had 0 TD's and 4 INT's. The 49ers also had historically great defensive efforts in the '84, '88 and '89 postseasons. My point being anyone can be selective with data and circumstance to suit their argument.

Montana's one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. His Super Bowl stats are phenomenal. However, he's no Tom Brady. No one is. And it's highly improbable that any quarterback will ever threaten his GOAT status.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Belichick did unequivocally state in the Brady retirement letter that Brady is the best player in NFL history. Which Brady is. However, I'm not sure Belichick genuinely sees it that way, which is ridiculous, considering he had a front row seat for 20 years. He also very well could mean it, again, I don't know.

Nitpicking Brady's undeniably incredible Super Bowl performances is really comical. Montana had one entirely brilliant postseason ('89). He was really shaky in his first two SB winning postseasons. He also had a really bad stretch of 3 consecutive postseason losses in his prime when he had 0 TD's and 4 INT's. The 49ers also had historically great defensive efforts in the '84, '88 and '89 postseasons. My point being anyone can be selective with data and circumstance to suit their argument.

Montana's one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. His Super Bowl stats are phenomenal. However, he's no Tom Brady. No one is. And it's highly improbable that any quarterback will ever threaten his GOAT status.

Who's nitpicking? The discussion is Brady vs Montana in clutchness....

You want to talk about shaky postseasons for Brady en route to the SB? 2001 -1 TD, 1 INT; 2018 - 2 TD, 3 INT. He was also shaky from 2005-2013.

 

[TommyD4207]

-most INTs thrown in playoffs in NFL history

This is so ****ing stupid.

Brady has started 20 more playoff games at QB than the next guy (Manning).

 

[PatsWSB47]

Who's nitpicking? The discussion is Brady vs Montana in clutchness....

You want to talk about shaky postseasons for Brady en route to the SB? 2001 -1 TD, 1 INT; 2018 - 2 TD, 3 INT. He was also shaky from 2005-2013.

How did Joe do in his 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th Suprebowls?

 

[venecol]

Who's nitpicking? The discussion is Brady vs Montana in clutchness....

You want to talk about shaky postseasons for Brady en route to the SB? 2001 -1 TD, 1 INT; 2018 - 2 TD, 3 INT. He was also shaky from 2005-2013.

No, the discussion began when you said:

Brady and Montana are co-GOATS in my book

That's a ridiculous take. To begin with, not even Montana believes that. Bill Belichick said Brady is the best player in NFL history. Countless others, both supporters and haters of Brady, all agree he's the GOAT.

You're just a pathetic Brady troll. At least Rob Parker gets paid for his schtick. You just come here to be ridiculed, laughed at, and bytch slapped like the incel you are. What's weird is that you seem to enjoy it.



Mortimer Porksley (aka Timmy) busy trolling Patsfans.com

Don't go running to Ian that I doxxed you. That's a news article so it's public knowledge.

 

[crawhammer]

Who's nitpicking? The discussion is Brady vs Montana in clutchness....

Oh clutchness, my bad...

Brady:
67 Game-Winning Drives (NFL record)
51 Fourth Quarter Comebacks (NFL record)

Montana:
33 Game-Winning Drives
31 Fourth Quarter Comebacks

Just looking at the postseason...

Brady:
14 Game-Winning Drives (NFL record)
9 Fourth Quarter Comebacks (NFL record)

Montana:
5 Game-Winning Drives
5 Fourth Quarter Comebacks

11 of Brady's game-winning drives came in postseasons that ended with a Super Bowl title (NFL record).
2 of Montana's game-winning drives came in postseasons that ended with a Super Bowl title.

Brady had 6 game-winning drives in the Super Bowl (NFL record).
Montana had 1 game-winning drive in the Super Bowl.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Oh clutchness, my bad...

Brady:
67 Game-Winning Drives (NFL record)
51 Fourth Quarter Comebacks (NFL record)

Montana:
33 Game-Winning Drives
31 Fourth Quarter Comebacks

Just looking at the postseason...

Brady:
14 Game-Winning Drives (NFL record)
9 Fourth Quarter Comebacks (NFL record)

Montana:
5 Game-Winning Drives
5 Fourth Quarter Comebacks

11 of Brady's game-winning drives came in postseasons that ended with a Super Bowl title (NFL record).
2 of Montana's game-winning drives came in postseasons that ended with a Super Bowl title.

Brady had 6 game-winning drives in the Super Bowl (NFL record).
Montana had 1 game-winning drive in the Super Bowl.

TommyBrady12 only has negative plays in his Brady scrapbook to post about.

 

[VectorPrime]

Brady also had a Game Winning Drive in Super Bowl 42 but then the defense decided to just reenact the Keystone Cops.

 

[PatsWSB47]

TommyBrady12 lied about Brady's 2001 Superbowl. He posts Brady threw a pick. He did not. He included that false stat in his "Shakey Brady playoffs stats. I wonder if he still wants an honest discussion?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

TommyBrady12 lied about Brady's 2001 Superbowl. He posts Brady threw a pick. He did not. He included that false stat in his "Shakey Brady playoffs stats. I wonder if he still wants an honest discussion?

No, that was his entire 2001 playoffs…1 TD, 1 INT

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Oh clutchness, my bad...

Brady:
67 Game-Winning Drives (NFL record)
51 Fourth Quarter Comebacks (NFL record)

Montana:
33 Game-Winning Drives
31 Fourth Quarter Comebacks

Just looking at the postseason...

Brady:
14 Game-Winning Drives (NFL record)
9 Fourth Quarter Comebacks (NFL record)

Montana:
5 Game-Winning Drives
5 Fourth Quarter Comebacks

11 of Brady's game-winning drives came in postseasons that ended with a Super Bowl title (NFL record).
2 of Montana's game-winning drives came in postseasons that ended with a Super Bowl title.

Brady had 6 game-winning drives in the Super Bowl (NFL record).
Montana had 1 game-winning drive in the Super Bowl.

Montana was the starter in SF for 10.5 years. Brady starter in NE for 18 years thanks to Guerrero. And Montana had a game winning drive in all 4 of his SB wins…he’s 4-0

 

[BobDigital]

This isn't that hard to understand. Mahomes plays a style the NFL has never seen. Add in Hill's speed, Kelce being a beast, Watkins, Hunt and co with innovative playing calling, and no team knew what hit them. This kind of thing happens every few years. Something new comes along, it looks unstoppable, then the league catches up. I'm surprised fan bases keep having these reactions. That 2018 season has really skewed the perception of Mahomes and only now are we understanding what he is when he doesn't have all these advantages. Which is still great, but not some kind of unstoppable force. Not only that, his style of play, which is just as flashy as it is impressive, causes this perception about him as well.

KC's offense (when Mahomes has been in and healthy) has gotten worse every year. In part because they had to let some of their talent go, and in part because the surprise factor is over. That's all it is. The talk about Mahomes being 'shook', The Bucs giving the world a 'blueprint or breaking them' or the whole 'distracted by his brother' i nonsense. This is just people not accepting this is what Mahomes will be from here on out.

What we are seeing from Mahomes now is what Mahomes will likely be for the rest of his career, unless they have some back to back very lucky drafts where they get to stack the offense again, or go all in at some point.

Here is what Mahomes is. The the most physically gifted QB to play the position with a knack for improv whose style is based more on a college/backyard/do whatever you can think style over the traditional structure. But as an actual field general, decision maker, and reader of defenses, he's average NFL starting level. He makes key mistakes in key moments, fails to create opportunities with his pump fakes/eyes, and doesn't anticipate openings in the D at an elite level. That's fine. There is no one to get the job done.

However, no one player is everything. There simply isn't enough time in the day. You need to play to your strengths and develop them. Also, I am SO annoyed how this conversation has become about Brady and Mahomes. Mahomes needs to worry about winning ring 2. Montana is still easily the better QB in the all time rankings. As is Staubach, and a number of others.

 

[crawhammer]

Montana was the starter in SF for 10.5 years. Brady starter in NE for 18 years thanks to Guerrero. And Montana had a game winning drive in all 4 of his SB wins…he’s 4-0

That's obviously not how the 'game-winning drive' stat works.

 

[Guts]

This isn't that hard to understand. Mahomes plays a style the NFL has never seen. Add in Hill's speed, Kelce being a beast, Watkins, Hunt and co with innovative playing calling, and no team knew what hit them. This kind of thing happens every few years. Something new comes along, it looks unstoppable, then the league catches up. I'm surprised fan bases keep having these reactions. That 2018 season has really skewed the perception of Mahomes and only now are we understanding what he is when he doesn't have all these advantages. Which is still great, but not some kind of unstoppable force. Not only that, his style of play, which is just as flashy as it is impressive, causes this perception about him as well.

KC's offense (when Mahomes has been in and healthy) has gotten worse every year. In part because they had to let some of their talent go, and in part because the surprise factor is over. That's all it is. The talk about Mahomes being 'shook', The Bucs giving the world a 'blueprint or breaking them' or the whole 'distracted by his brother' i nonsense. This is just people not accepting this is what Mahomes will be from here on out.

What we are seeing from Mahomes now is what Mahomes will likely be for the rest of his career, unless they have some back to back very lucky drafts where they get to stack the offense again, or go all in at some point.

Here is what Mahomes is. The the most physically gifted QB to play the position with a knack for improv whose style is based more on a college/backyard/do whatever you can think style over the traditional structure. But as an actual field general, decision maker, and reader of defenses, he's average NFL starting level. He makes key mistakes in key moments, fails to create opportunities with his pump fakes/eyes, and doesn't anticipate openings in the D at an elite level. That's fine. There is no one to get the job done.

However, no one player is everything. There simply isn't enough time in the day. You need to play to your strengths and develop them. Also, I am SO annoyed how this conversation has become about Brady and Mahomes. Mahomes needs to worry about winning ring 2. Montana is still easily the better QB in the all time rankings. As is Staubach, and a number of others.

Good post. I would also say that the fraud in GreenBay was Mahomes before Mahomes came into the league. I don't like the SOB but I would take prime Rodgers over Mahomes.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

That's obviously not how the 'game-winning drive' stat works.

Fine, he had 2 GW drives in the 4th quarter vs Cincinnati, and in the other SBs he was too busy blowing out Miami and Denver....in fact I don't think Brady ever blew out a SB opponent while he was in NE.