OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[PatsWSB47]

Fine, he had 2 GW drives in the 4th quarter vs Cincinnati, and in the other SBs he was too busy blowing out Miami and Denver....in fact I don't think Brady ever blew out a SB opponent while he was in NE.

Well Montana had 0 turnovers in his 5th,6th,7th,8th,9th and 10th superbowls. Brady had several in those so obviously Montana is better in Superbowls.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Well Montana had 0 turnovers in his 5th,6th,7th,8th,9th and 10th superbowls. Brady had several in those so obviously Montana is better in Superbowls.

Sadly, the guy was too injury prone and was the starter only 10.5 years in the league (164 career starts). On the other hand, Brady played for 20 years (316 career starts). Of course, the guy with more career starts is going to reach the super bowl more times. Plus the NFC had among the best teams in NFL history in the 80s (Bears, Giants, Redskins) so it was a lot tougher to get to the SB.

 

[NFL Mystique]

It didn't break him.

They made it to the AFC title game after a 3-4 start.

He **** the bed in the Bengals game. But he's still a great player. But is he head and shoulders above everyone else now? That conversation can be had.

It's going to be tough for any one franchise in the AFC to get to two or more SB's in a 5 year period. The QB's will pick one another off.

Meaning Allen goes one year. Maybe Herbert the next. Mahomes the next. Burrow/Mac etc.

Mahomes has Herbert, Carr, Burrow, Allen, maybe Rodgers, and Lamar to deal with. That's absurd.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Sadly, the guy was too injury prone and was the starter 10.5 years in the league (164 career starts). On the other hand, Brady played for 20 years (316 career starts). Of course, the guy with more career starts is going to reach the super bowl more times. Plus the NFC had among the best teams in NFL history in the 80s (Bears, Giants, Redskins) so it was a lot tougher to get to the SB.

You dont get points for not making on the field. You dont lose points for making it on the field and not being perfect.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You dont get points for not making on the field. You dont lose points for making it on the field and not being perfect.

We're talking about who the more clutch player is here...Brady clearly wins the longevity/durability category.

 

[NFL Mystique]

I think media get caught up with 4-0 in SB's with Montana. No picks. It almost ignores the obvious question. Why only 4 SB appearances?

Why? Because he went one and done between 85-87. Brady never did that.

Because he wet the bed as a huge favorite against the Giants in 1990.

He lost to Buffalo in 93 playoffs. Tough place to play and rabid fans right? Sure. But Brady outplayed Rodgers at Lambeau one year ago. In covid infested waters.

Joe Montana gets more credit, in a weird way, for losing before the SB. As if Brady would've been better off losing before the Giantsx2 and Eagles SB's? Baloney. Losing in a SB doesn't make things worse vs a WC loss. All losses hurt.

I'd rather have 7 Golds and 4 Silvers compared to 4 Golds.

Joe Montana can never be mentioned in the same tier as Brady. That ship sailed at about 1030 EST on February 5th 2017.

 

[PatsWSB47]

We're talking about who the more clutch player is here...Brady clearly wins the longevity/durability category.

So here's what you are missing: Sample sizes that have huge differences. If I have 50 foul shots and make 40 and you have 100 an make 70 I cannot then claim that I'm the better fool shooter because I would have 80 if I also shot 100. And durability absolutely is a big Ingredient in being clutch. You cant help your club if you're in the tub.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think media get caught up with 4-0 in SB's with Montana. No picks. It almost ignores the obvious question. Why only 4 SB appearances?

Why? Because he went one and done between 85-87. Brady never did that.

Because he wet the bed as a huge favorite against the Giants in 1990.

He lost to Buffalo in 93 playoffs. Tough place to play and rabid fans right? Sure. But Brady outplayed Rodgers at Lambeau one year ago. In covid infested waters.

Joe Montana gets more credit, in a weird way, for losing before the SB. As if Brady would've been better off losing before the Giantsx2 and Eagles SB's? Baloney. Losing in a SB doesn't make things worse vs a WC loss. All losses hurt.

I'd rather have 7 Golds and 4 Silvers compared to 4 Golds.

Joe Montana can never be mentioned in the same tier as Brady. That ship sailed at about 1030 EST on February 5th 2017.

You need to stick to the Queefs, my friend. Brady went one and done in 2009, 2010, and 2019.

Covid infested waters? You do realize there weren't many fans in the stands at Lambeau in 2020 NFC championship, right?

Again, stick to the Queefs...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So here's what you are missing: Sample sizes that have huge differences. If I have 50 foul shots and make 40 and you have 100 an make 70 I cannot then claim that I'm the better fool shooter because I would have 80 if I also shot 100. And durability absolutely is a big Ingredient in being clutch. You cant help your club if you're in the tub.

Really bad analogy. How can anyone say they are a better free throw shooter by getting fouled more and taking more shots but having a less free throw shooting percentage than another player? Clutch is loosely defined as how well you play in big moments. It has nothing to do with durability.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Really bad analogy. How can anyone say they are a better free throw shooter by getting fouled more and taking more shots but having a less free throw shooting percentage? Clutch is loosely defined as how well you play in big moments. It has nothing to do with durability.

You suck at this. You just keep moving the goalposts

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You suck at this. You just keep moving the goalposts

 

[PatsWSB47]

Nice selfie. That your Facebook pic?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You suck at this. You just keep moving the goalposts

LOL, next you are going to argue that Emmitt Smith is better than Barry Sanders simply because Smith had better stats and played more games...

 

[NFL Mystique]

You need to stick to the Queefs, my friend. Brady went one and done in 2009 and 2010.

Covid infested waters? You do realize there weren't many fans in the stands at Lambeau in 2020 NFC championship, right?

Again, stick to the Queefs...

I was actually saying Brady is better than Montana.

Montana went one and done three straight years. Brady never went one and done three straight years.

You appear to be a Brady hater.

 

[amfootball]

It’s too bad Elway wasn’t able to win a couple of those early SBs. He was my favorite Qb of that era.

 

[BobDigital]

Brady's longevity was not a lucky gift but hard work at maintaining his health.

It also comes down to style of play. I don't like the idea of punishing Brady for having a style of play which promotes health and longevity compared to a style of play which is higher risk and wears you out sooner. If Montana played in the current NFL he could have played longer, but not as long as Brady. If Brady played in the 80s, he wouldn't have played as long, but would have played longer than Montana or any other QB for that matter. Also he would have had more healthy playoff runs than Montana with his stacked team. Often the 49ers seasons were derailed by Montana being unable to stay healthy. And that comes down to his style of play as much as the era.

Also, while I know you mentioned nothing about this, but to respond to the idea... can we PLEASE stop comparing coaches like it is some HUGE advantage? The only time coaching is a huge advantage is when it comes to lapses of competence. the difference between a great and good coach in the NFL is rather small, and I think people still underestimate how much Brady meant to the 6 super bowl wins and over estimate how much BB meant. Reid has incredibly innovative playcalling and had a track record of playoff appearances and deep runs before Mahomes ever suited up. Something BB sure as hell didn't have as a head coach. Also Walsh is clearly an all time coach. An innovator on offense. It's called the west coast offense for a reason. To say that BB was some kind of huge advantage over these guys, is an overstatement.

And it isn't like Mahomes or Montana suffered from Bad coaching or an unfair advantage talent wise. Brady took over a team that was 0-2 before he started and 5-11 the year before that. While clearly not as bad as that would suggest, because they had some talent on the defensive side, they were hardly a stacked team. Mahomes walked into a team that went to the playoffs 3 years running and made Alex Smith a 2 time pro bowler. Montana talent was stacked pretty much his entire career with a few exceptions, on both sides of the ball. The idea 'those first 2 super bowls he didn't have the GOAT WR' is silly. First off, he had the GOAT WR for the rest of his run. Not having the GOAT WR doesn't prove you didn't have great offensive talent around you. And unlike Gronk, Rice was almost always healthy, Clarke and Craig were better players on offense than anyone Brady had in that early run, Save 2004 Dillon. But that was only 1 year. This isn't to down play the guys Brady had around him. Or tear down Montana. Montana is the the 2nd best all time and by a comfortable margin IMO.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I was actually saying Brady is better than Montana.

Montana went one and done three straight years. Brady never went one and done three straight years.

You appear to be a Brady hater.

Lol. See MAC10, you're not fooling anyone
We've been putting up with this crap for over 2 years. Hes openly mocked and and belittled Brady many times and usually only posts Brady failures.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It also comes down to style of play. I don't like the idea of punishing Brady for having a style of play which promotes health and longevity compared to a style of play which is higher risk and wears you out sooner. If Montana played in the current NFL he could have played longer, but not as long as Brady. If Brady played in the 80s, he wouldn't have played as long, but would have played longer than Montana or any other QB for that matter. Also he would have had more healthy playoff runs than Montana with his stacked team. Often the 49ers seasons were derailed by Montana being unable to stay healthy. And that comes down to his style of play as much as the era.

Also, while I know you mentioned nothing about this, but to respond to the idea... can we PLEASE stop comparing coaches like it is some HUGE advantage? The only time coaching is a huge advantage is when it comes to lapses of competence. the difference between a great and good coach in the NFL is rather small, and I think people still underestimate how much Brady meant to the 6 super bowl wins and over estimate how much BB meant. Reid has incredibly innovative playcalling and had a track record of playoff appearances and deep runs before Mahomes ever suited up. Something BB sure as hell didn't have as a head coach. Also Walsh is clearly an all time coach. An innovator on offense. It's called the west coast offense for a reason. To say that BB was some kind of huge advantage over these guys, is an overstatement.

And it isn't like Mahomes or Montana suffered from Bad coaching or an unfair advantage talent wise. Brady took over a team that was 0-2 before he started and 5-11 the year before that. While clearly not as bad as that would suggest, because they had some talent on the defensive side, they were hardly a stacked team. Mahomes walked into a team that went to the playoffs 3 years running and made Alex Smith a 2 time pro bowler. Montana talent was stacked pretty much his entire career with a few exceptions, on both sides of the ball. The idea 'those first 2 super bowls he didn't have the GOAT WR' is silly. First off, he had the GOAT WR for the rest of his run. Not having the GOAT WR doesn't prove you didn't have great offensive talent around you. And unlike Gronk, Rice was almost always healthy, Clarke and Craig were better players on offense than anyone Brady had in that early run, Save 2004 Dillon. But that was only 1 year. This isn't to down play the guys Brady had around him. Or tear down Montana. Montana is the the 2nd best all time and by a comfortable margin IMO.

No, it comes down to the era that they played in. Montana and Brady have a similar style of play. Both like to throw short passes that wear out a defense, the difference being Montana played in the Wild Wild West era of football where it was ok to hit a QB late or below the knees and where receivers constantly got mugged. Brady played in an era that was designed to protect the QB. Another difference is Montana did not have the benefit of coach-to-coach communications over a headset and did not play in the shotgun, whereas Brady had both advantages. And you can't say for certain that if Brady played in the 80s he'd play longer than Montana. Brady never faced the ferocious defenses of the 80s Giants, Bears, or Redskins. The best defense Brady's ever faced was the 2000s NYG, which was nothing compared to the top defenses of the 80s.

 

[Bruins29]

No, it comes down to the era that they played in. Montana and Brady have a similar style of play. Both like to throw short passes that wear out a defense, the difference being Montana played in the Wild Wild West era of football where it was ok to hit a QB late or below the knees and where receivers constantly got mugged. Brady played in an era that was designed to protect the QB. Another difference is Montana did not have the benefit of coach-to-coach communications over a headset and did not play in the shotgun, whereas Brady had both advantages. And you can't say for certain that if Brady played in the 80s he'd play longer than Montana. Brady never faced the ferocious defenses of the 80s Giants, Bears, or Redskins. The best defense Brady's ever faced was the 2000s NYG, which was nothing compared to the top defenses of the 80s.

Wow and yet Brady was able to destroy teams and win at a unprecedented pace against these teams with QBs that all had the same advantages that Brady did.

Claiming Brady had an advantage (other than more protection for his health = helping longevity) is the most disingenuous argument you can make on this subject.

You play against peers.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Wow and yet Brady was able to destroy teams and win at a unprecedented pace against these teams with QBs that all had the same advantages that Brady did.

Claiming Brady had an advantage (other than more protection for his health = helping longevity) is the most disingenuous argument you can make on this subject.

You play against peers.

Ok, so Brady is 1-5 against the Manning boys in games that matter the most, the AFCCG and SB…