OT: Did the Bucs SB loss Break Patrick Mahomes?

[Fixit]

Very misleading. Those comebacks were all during the regular season. They were not during the Pats playoff runs.

Jesus, you've been flailing so hard for so long. You know exactly what it says and what it means, but just pretend it says "Super Bowl-winning seasons." Now what?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady won 2 league MVP's during that stretch. He also made 7 pro bowls, had multiple seasons of leading the NFL in passing yards, TD's, passer rating, QBR, etc. He also won more playoff games than he lost. Brady had some outstanding seasons go down the toilet due to underwhelming Patriots defenses.


Flacco did that. Overcoming a 28-3 deficit is more impressive, and more clutch, and something never done before (or probably ever again). Brady had game's worth of production (21-26 for 246) in the 4th quarter and OT. Montana never did anything like that. He also never overcame a 10-point deficit in a 4th quarter against an all-time great defense like Brady did in SB 49.

Again, the Pats were down 28-3 in large part thanks to the offense, which did nothing for 3.5 quarters and Brady throwing a pick 6 (I was at the game and it was miserable for most of the night). And Flacco did not dominate a single postseason the way JM did in 1989. Flacco threw for 11 TDs in FOUR games, but I'm sure you didn't even think about that, while Montana did it in 3. Again, pure dominance by JM in 1989, which will probably never be achieved again.

 

[NFL Mystique]

His point was, Montana **** the bed with a loaded team three straight years, 85-87. This was pre-salary cap and free agency, of course, so those teams were loaded and stayed loaded. Won in 81, pass on 82 the strike year, they were bad, 83 tough loss to Washington on the road (which should never should have been a road game, as a loaded team lost 4 of 5 in November against dogshit teams), won it all in 84, lost to the Bears in 85, a team they should have annihilated like the Dolphins did, they had better weapons (as proven the year before), 86 his fragile ass missed half the year (A couple of actual bums went 5-3-1 in his absence, showing how loaded that team was, and it was Montana's fragility that made Walsh go out and trade for Steve Young), and got stomped by the Giants in a one and done, 87 was another strike year, but they went 10-1 with the starters, 13-2 overall, #1 offense and defense, and got croaked at home by a barely .500 Vikings team. Walsh changed the offense to give Roger Craig 100 more carries than he did in 87 the next two years, and they won it all twice. 90 they lost to the Giants again at Home this time, and they could only put up field goals.

Montana was an excellent QB, but the ONLY reason he got 'GOAT' talk is because he won four Super Bowls. You could argue he was on loaded teams that won without him because he was fragile too. His first year in Kansas City (again, when he was actually on the field) was his best in my mind, because that team was him, Marcus Allen, and a bunch of practice squad guys, if they had practice squads then. The front 7 on defense was very good to excellent, but their secondary was dogshit as well.

I liked Montana. A lot. I liked his clutch gene too, but San Francisco should have been in 6 or 7 Super Bowls instead of just 4. And you can blame a lot of that on the quarterback play, that they weren't.

Bill Walsh *traded* for Steve Young because Montana was fragile, and started him over Montana briefly because he was just better. The analogy would be if Bill Belichick traded for Ben Roethlisberger in Brady's late 20s because he couldn't stay on the field.

Thank you.

 

[Bruins29]

No Alex Guerrero to feel him up and touch his rear.

So no other teams QBs that brady played against had people to help the QBs heal quicker?

 

[Fixit]

So no other teams QBs that brady played against had people to help the QBs heal quicker?

Facts. The NFL didn't allow trainers for Montana's entire career. Not many people know this!

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Thank you.

LOL, the chiefs guy says thank you after screwing up his facts...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Facts. The NFL didn't allow trainers for Montana's entire career. Not many people know this!

Fact - pliability wasn't a thing in the 1980s.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Brady played against stiffer competition in SB's than Montana.

The NFC was the much superior conference for like 15 years. 14-1. 13 straight wins. FA & style of play was mostly dictated by the NFC.

 

[NFL Mystique]

LOL, the chiefs guy says thank you after screwing up his facts...

I said Montana went one and done three straight years.

Yes Brady went one and done three times in his Patriots career. But he won a whack of PO games between the Jets loss and Titans loss. Between 2011-2018 he never lost his first PO game.

And a one and done is acceptable when the previous five years consisted of:

4 SB trips
3 SB wins
Overcoming a ten point deficit to an all time great D twice in 2014. Ravens & Seattle. Actually 14 to Seattle.
28-3
Somehow keeping them in that Denver game
20-10 deficit overcome against "Sax"-onville
Converting three third and tens in OT to beat KC
Beating Rams in SB

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Brady played against stiffer competition in SB's than Montana.

The NFC was the much superior conference for like 15 years. 14-1. 13 straight wins. FA & style of play was mostly dictated by the NFC.

Then Brady shouldn't have screwed up royally vs the NYG, one of his easier SB opponents, including the biggest game of his career. Montana lost to the Giants a handful of times, but those Giants teams were vastly superior...

Really, the only "bad" team Montana lost to in the playoffs as a Niner was the 1987 Vikings...Brady lost twice to the Giants, Jete, Ravens, Titans.

 

[Bruins29]

Then Brady shouldn't have screwed up royally vs the NYG, one of his easier SB opponents, including the biggest game of his career. Montana lost the Giants a handful of times, but those Giants teams were vastly superior...

Not catching a catchable pick?
Allowing a meh WR to make a 1 in a 1000 catch?
leaving a short CB on a huge WR one on one?

Was all Brady screwing up?

Face it, you have been completely destroyed in this debate, so badly in fact that you are looking for any little ridiculous thing to try to tear down Brady. That alone is proof positive that Montana's accomplishments cant stand on their own without the mental gymnastics you are performing.

A great example of "Equity"

Every post you make here now seems to reach new levels of stupidity. You have been pummeled in this thread and I am embarrassed for you.

 

[venecol]

Good news is little Timmy (aka Mortimer Porksley) has finally exposed himself. The troll loves 3 of these teams:



And pretends to be a Pats fan. It's now clear he was a 49er fan (this week). In the past he's been a Chiefs fan and even a Bills fan.

He's now reduced to this. Sad just sad.


Mortimer Porksley (aka Mac10) busy trolling Patsfans.com

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Not catching a catchable pick?
Allowing a meh WR to make a 1 in a 1000 catch?
leaving a short CB on a huge WR one on one?

Was all Brady screwing up?

Face it, you have been completely destroyed in this debate, so badly in fact that you are looking for any little ridiculous thing to try to tear down Brady. That alone is proof positive that Montana's accomplishments cant stand on their own without the mental gymnastics you are performing.

A great example of "Equity"

Every post you make here now seems to reach new levels of stupidity. You have been pummeled in this thread and I am embarrassed for you.

When you are one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL and can't put up 20 points in the SB, it's on the offense. You can blame Asante Samuel or Rodney Harrison all you want...fact: Brady implied the Pats were going to score more than 17 points in one game and he only got 14. If that's not on the offense (of which he was the head) then I don't know what to tell you...

 

[NFL Mystique]

Then Brady shouldn't have screwed up royally vs the NYG, one of his easier SB opponents, including the biggest game of his career. Montana lost the Giants a handful of times, but those Giants teams were vastly superior...

There's no way anyone can argue Montana>Brady.

Both have three NFL MVP's. So let's say their regular seasons are a wash (They aren't. Brady was better).

Now the postseason. Brady got to 10 SB's. That increases the likelihood of a loss. But...he still went 7-3. 5 SB MVP's. His defense was crumbling in SB 36 & 38. But Brady rescued them.

28-3. Overcoming a 10 point deficit against great defenses in Baltimore, Seattle, and the Jags. Nearly pulling off a win when his best receivers are out and his coach is benching the 2nd best corner.

And I got a first hand glimpse of devastation when he did what he did in OT against my team.

Yes Montana was perfect. No picks. But his team was the overwhelming favorite every time. Stacked at all positions. The Patriots were 12 point favorites against the Giants in 07. But the gap between those two teams wasn't as large as the 82 Bengals or 89 Broncos against the Niners.

Brady had to get to SB 42 to be upset. Would it have been better had he lost earlier? Is it better for Montana that he stunk up the joint in the round before against the Giants in 90?

No. Every PO game is critical. Each one is the biggest game of your life. There's no bonus points for being upset a round earlier.

 

[VectorPrime]

Hypothetical mental exercise: If everything in Montana’s career remains equal EXCEPT the Bengals make that EASY interception in the end zone near the end of Montana’s 3rd Super Bowl and he goes 3-1 instead of 4-0 is he ever considered the undisputed GOAT?

 

[NFL Mystique]

When you are one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL and can't put up 20 points in the SB, it's on the offense. You can blame Asante Samuel or Rodney Harrison all you want...fact: he implied the Pats were going to score more than 17 points in one game and he only got 14. If that's not on the offense (of which he was the head) then I don't know what to tell you...

There's two teams playing.

Everyone knew going in that Giants DLine was elite.

The Patriots put up Madden level numbers most of the year on offense. It's not reasonable to expect that to continue. Not to the tune of 56-14 every week.

Brady was not great against the Giants. Nobody will say that. But he put them in position to win. And that one out of a million catch was just that. A fluke. Never to be seen again. It's not Brady or the D's fault. It just happened. Note: The refs should've called the Giants for holding multiple times on that play.

Regardless, if we were sitting here with Brady at 3 SB's and Montana 4, you'd have a great case for Joe ahead. But that case was a debate after SB 49. And the case went out the window after SB 51. After SB 53 & SB 55, said case is dead and buried about one million feet.

 

[NFL Mystique]

Hypothetical mental exercise: If everything in Montana’s career remains equal EXCEPT the Bengals make that EASY interception in the end zone near the end of Montana’s 3rd Super Bowl and he goes 3-1 instead of 4-0 is he ever considered the undisputed GOAT?

Bingo.

Bengals are up 13-6. D playing lights out. Mid 4th quarter.

That pick would've given Cincy a 13-6 lead. The ball. And a D playing great. I watched that game the other night. That would've likely won them the game.

But...he drops it. Montana hits Rice. Bengals kick a FG. And then the 95 yard game winning drive.

Montana is definitely 2nd greatest of all time. But there's no argument for him over Brady.

The NFL QB debate is whose 2-5. Not number 1.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yes Montana was perfect. No picks. But his team was the overwhelming favorite every time. Stacked at all positions. The Patriots were 12 point favorites against the Giants in 07. But the gap between those two teams wasn't as large as the 82 Bengals or 89 Broncos against the Niners.

No. Every PO game is critical. Each one is the biggest game of your life. There's no bonus points for being upset a round earlier.

I never said Montana > Brady. I am only talking "clutchness" here...

Super Bowl - Niners a 1 pt favorite

Super Bowl 19 - Niners 3.5

Not sure where the Niners were an overwhelming favorite every time...and in 1981 and 1984 they most certainly weren't stacked at all positions.

As far as each playoff game being biggest game of your life, how many super bowls in NFL history are there where one team has a chance to go undefeated? Super Bowl 42 was the biggest game in NFL history and one QB fell well short of expectations.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Hypothetical mental exercise: If everything in Montana’s career remains equal EXCEPT the Bengals make that EASY interception in the end zone near the end of Montana’s 3rd Super Bowl and he goes 3-1 instead of 4-0 is he ever considered the undisputed GOAT?

We can split hairs all you want. If Dee Ford doesn't line up offsides or if the Seahawks run the ball at the goal line, Brady is 5-4 in Super Bowls and cannot be the GOAT.

 

[Joker]

this is brutal...I'll let you guess who the baby seal is in this thread...even KC fan is getting in his whacks..