OT: Dan Orlovsky Top 5 QB's Of All Time

[Actual Pats Fan]

Top 50? I like you lol. He's a top 25 lock though.

Whoa buddy ...

I've had Brady, Manning, Young, Montana cemented in for a long time. #5 could go a lot of ways imo.

I like Elway but he just falls short when you compare him to the other greats in his era. Specifically as a passer and playing like **** in big games. Again just think he's firmly in that 15-20 range.

You started off so strong and we were getting along bashing Jon Elway - George but fell off a Tom Brady size cliff circa 2016-17.

I don't know what's worse lol
Fran > Mahomes or
Comparing Rypien to Young.

YA 8.0 > 7.1
CMP % 64 > 56
AY/A 7.94 > 6.43
NY/A 6.89 > 6.57
ANY/A 6.85 > 5.96

Young wasn't on a good team.

He racked up those stats on a great team.

 

[p8ryts]

And driving Jim Brown into retirement.

But I give Modell credit for sticking with Bill for as long as he did.

I get it. He sees the Red carpet rolled out for the Indians; meanwhile his stadium is crumbling.

"But I give Modell credit for sticking with Bill for as long as he did."
I didn't understand that statement at all.

 

[Wozzy]

Before Tom Brady Joe Montana was considered the best to ever play… now he’s not even on the list?

Good grief…

 

[Wozzy]

Young wasn't on a good team.

He racked up those stats on a great team.

Young played on the Bucs early in his career and they were the league doormat… the worst team in the league.

Then after time passed, he went to the 49ers and was the most accurate QB in the league. It’s a team game.

 

[fightingirish595]

Top 50? I like you lol. He's a top 25 lock though.

Whoa buddy ...

I've had Brady, Manning, Young, Montana cemented in for a long time. #5 could go a lot of ways imo.

I like Elway but he just falls short when you compare him to the other greats in his era. Specifically as a passer and playing like **** in big games. Again just think he's firmly in that 15-20 range.

You started off so strong and we were getting along bashing Jon Elway - George but fell off a Tom Brady size cliff circa 2016-17.

I don't know what's worse lol
Fran > Mahomes or
Comparing Rypien to Young.

YA 8.0 > 7.1
CMP % 64 > 56
AY/A 7.94 > 6.43
NY/A 6.89 > 6.57
ANY/A 6.85 > 5.96

Elways teams didn’t belong on the field with those teams they lost the Super Bowl too.

Dan reeves completely wasted John elways talent. Look at johns numbers with shanny vs reeves. It’s like two completely different players.

Points given up in Johns SB losses

39,42,55

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

"But I give Modell credit for sticking with Bill for as long as he did."
I didn't understand that statement at all.

Five years

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Elways teams didn’t belong on the field with those teams they lost the Super Bowl too.

Dan reeves completely wasted John elways talent. Look at johns numbers with shanny vs reeves. It’s like two completely different players.

Points given up in Johns SB losses

39,42,55

1. Correct

2. Reeves got the most he could out of the crybaby.

I won't bother repeating everything already pointed out multiple times in this thread about what was going on in '97 & '98.

3. Broncos had a top defense annually, but like the 70's Vikings, found themselves overmatched in the SB. Bills also fell flat in the big one.

 

[fightingirish595]

1. Correct

2. Reeves got the most he could out of the crybaby.

I won't bother repeating everything already pointed out multiple times in this thread about what was going on in '97 & '98.

3. Broncos had a top defense annually, but like the 70's Vikings, found themselves overmatched in the SB. Bills also fell flat in the big one.

Yeah you should delete this. Reeves didn’t even come close to getting the most out of elway. Shanny did though. Look at elways splits with reeves and without.

Really bad post

 

[Rob0729]

And driving Jim Brown into retirement.

But I give Modell credit for sticking with Bill for as long as he did.

I get it. He sees the Red carpet rolled out for the Indians; meanwhile his stadium is crumbling.

Brown retired because he wanted to be a movie star. Yes, he did not seem like Modell and his letter to Modell to tell him he is retiring clearly indicated that (although that might have been in response to the team fining Brown $100 a day for not reporting which was big money back in 1965). But Brown was making more money making movies and thought his career would take off after the Dirty Dozen.

As for Modell sticking with Belichick, the year before Belichick was fired the Browns went 11-5 which was the second best record in the AFC that year. Why would Modell fire Belichick after a successful season?

 

[upstater1]

Elways teams didn’t belong on the field with those teams they lost the Super Bowl too.

Dan reeves completely wasted John elways talent. Look at johns numbers with shanny vs reeves. It’s like two completely different players.

Points given up in Johns SB losses

39,42,55

Elway was wildly inaccurate. I've never seen a top QB be so bad at throwing the ball to his receivers. It was something to behold. While he was playing, I couldn't understand it. And then to have all those seasons throwing more INTs than TDs, it didn't make any sense to me that he was ever elevated.

 

[Rob0729]

Elway was wildly inaccurate. I've never seen a top QB be so bad at throwing the ball to his receivers. It was something to behold. While he was playing, I couldn't understand it. And then to have all those seasons throwing more INTs than TDs, it didn't make any sense to me that he was ever elevated.

Elway definitely changed his image the last few years of his career. If he didn't win two Super Bowls at the end of his career, the narrative on his career would be completely different. He would still be considered a great player and a HOFer, but definitely wouldn't have been in the discussion for the best QBs of all time. Hell, his only MVP season was the strike shorten season. And he was never a first team All Pro (second team three times).

 

[upstater1]

Elway definitely changed his image the last few years of his career. If he didn't win two Super Bowls at the end of his career, the narrative on his career would be completely different. He would still be considered a great player and a HOFer, but definitely wouldn't have been in the discussion for the best QBs of all time. Hell, his only MVP season was the strike shorten season. And he was never a first team All Pro (second team three times).

I agree. Those 2 seasons were better than all the previous seasons combined. Then again, he benefited from an illegal running game and an illegal salary cap.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Terrell Davis was one of the best running backs I've ever seen. What a weapon. Blocking illegal, yes, but even still that dude was like a brick on wheels.

 

[p8ryts]

Five years

4th year 11-5 playoffs, beat Pats, 5th year 4-2 and Modell announces the move. With a bad Bernie Kosar. The best QB he had was Testerverde and as limited as he was they were winning with him until the announcement.

 

[crawhammer]

Elway is maybe top 50.

??

Mahomes is not as good as Tarkenton.

He's better.

Young.

Like a Rypien with longer longevity.

I'm not saying Steve Young sucks

Seems like you are. Because Rypien sucked on balance and Young was the best quarterback in the league for several seasons. In no way is Young like Rypien.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's surprising the only QBs to have multiple MVPs and Super Bowl MVPs are Joe Montana and Tom Brady. And more suprising the only to have multiple MVPs and multiple rings are Montana, Brady, and Peyton Manning*.

*2015

The Super Bowl MVP should not have gone to Mahomes in 2019, but it's a fact that he's credited with it. If he wins Sunday, he has multiple MVPs, multiple Super Bowl MVPs, and is the first player in like 23 years to win them both in the same year.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'm good with:
#1 Brady
#2 Montana

Then a healthy debate over 3--5 that includes Otto Graham, Peyton Manning, Dan Marino, Bart Starr, Roger Staubach, John Unitas

Another healthy debate over 6--10 would include the two above who don't make it in 3--5 plus Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Brett Favre, Jim Kelly, Aaron Rodgers, Fran Tarkenton and a couple of others I'm probably overlooking.

A final debate over current players who could make either list after they win a few SB's would include Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes (OK, you gotta win one first...)

Too early to talk about Jalen Hurts. Russell Wilson makes the "almost there" on the 6--10 list, which could change with a late career resurgence...unlikely though.

Anticipating objections:
Yes, Otto Graham played a long time ago, but he was damn good.
Aikman retired at the age of 34 because he was ahead of his time in being concerned about CTE.
Staubach only won two SB's but went to seven.
Bradshaw had the Steel Curtain but have you watched some of the passes he completed when it was legal to mug the QB and his receivers?
Kelly and Tarkenton never closed the deal but taking their teams to four SB's has to get them considered.
Elway did go to five SB's and did win two in a row, retiring early to move on to other related interests.

 

[RodThePat]

People really still put Elway top 5-10, huh? He's firmly in that 15-20 range imo.

Mahomes is closer to the top 5-10 than people think. We haven't seen a QB play the position this good, this early. I'm not taking 5-10 QB'S over him.

Also Marino never won anything but is the only guy with stats to stand next to the new group except he did it 30-40 years ago. Stats > accomplishments and yes hardware matters but not as much in these discussions imo.

Steve Young is top 5-7.

Marino had modern era level stats until 1988, averaging 4300 yards and 36 passing TDs per 16 games played. The other 11 years of his career were basically in line with most of his peers (3800 yards and 23 TDs per 16 games).

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Elways teams didn’t belong on the field with those teams they lost the Super Bowl too.

I joke around about Elway but think he's a top 15-20 QB. He just doesn't stack up well compared to others imo.

He was bad in a lot of big games. Including almost every SB he played in. His teams beat some ok opponents and got manhandled against real all-time teams. Not entirely his fault at all mind you but again he **** the bed in A LOT of big games. SB and PO.

Points given up in Johns SB losses

39,42,55

Few other SB stats
76 completions / 152 attempts
3 TD / 8 INT

I'm not saying he sucks at all but he's firmly in the that second tier imo.

Also everyone knows Shanahan was better for Elway man. He helped save his career. I'm sure Elway would have been better but that's another discussion and one we could have for a lot of players.

 

[AQPE]

Just finished reading the ESPN story about Montana. I highly recommend it for its insight into the mentality of someone like him and Brady. it’s as bittersweet as you might imagine. I loved watching Montana all the way back to the Notre Dame years, I knew he struggled personally and am glad he seems to have found happiness and purpose now. Having a great partner has been a Godsend for him. Makes me feel wistful for Brady, I love the guy and hope he figures out how he can be truly happy in life after football, sooner than Super Joe.

In reference to Tom, Joe can’t help resenting him which is very understandable. Joe has to rationalize that Tom’s era was just so much different from his. I’m sure Unitas, Bradshaw, Staubach, Starr, Graham, Baugh, Van Brocklin, and Layne felt the same because it is the truth. I know I feel the same way for example as a fan about comparing Russell to Jordan and James, Orr to Gretzky and Lemieux, Mays to Bonds or Griffey, etc. I marvel at how gracious Russell was and same goes for Abdul-Jabbar last night when it came to “passing the torch.”

Still here I am on this thread because as sports fans we love to see who winds up on top at the end so the all time rankings will always be fun to debate. For me it’s Brady then Montana and then everyone else especially those I never got to see play, basically everyone preceding Bradshaw. My criteria are number of titles and my impression of their ability to lead when victory seemed impossiblle. While I wouldn’t put Mahomes on any top 5 or 10 list just yet, he is about as good as I’ve seen since Brady emerged in the leadership element. I’m definitely not a fan of the Chiefs and am hoping the Eagles win Sunday but I love watching Mahomes pull things off so am good with him doing well.