OT: Dan Orlovsky Top 5 QB's Of All Time

[Rob0729]

I have to believe Mahomes is showing up on these lists already because of what's being projected for him. He's been in the league for 5 seasons and obviously he's had a very impressive start to his career, but I don't see him keeping up that pace because he's going to have very strong competition for likely the rest of his career. Allen, Burrow and Herbert. Jackson if he can stay healthy. Watson if he can fully regain his form. Lawrence will enter this conversation soon. Perhaps Tua if concussions don't end his career first. Mahomes might lose to Hurts this weekend, and depending on how Hurts plays, then maybe he's on the list too.

I really think Mahomes needs this Super Bowl for his legacy standing. The QB he's gunning for in the long run (Brady), knocked him out of the postseason twice. He needs to get to 2 rings now and he'll still be 5 behind Brady (who has the tiebreaker if they both finish with 7 rings). A loss would put Mahomes at 1-2 in the SB with a strong unlikelihood of him keeping up his current pace of appearances.

With a win this weekend, Mahomes is definitely passing Roethlisberger and Warner. But I wouldn't put him past Rodgers yet, although he'll clearly be gaining ground. Brees? I'm not sure. As you alluded to, it's difficult getting his ranking correct. I'll have to see what happens this weekend first.

Even if Mahomes wins the SB and SB MVP this weekend (to go along with his second NFL MVP), he's not getting in my all-time top 5 yet. Brady had 3 rings and 2 SB MVPs after 4 seasons and it was clear he would be getting back to many more. With the number of elite quarterbacks that Mahomes will be facing in his conference alone, I don't think it's guaranteed he gets back to multiple Super Bowls. Plus his exceptional head coach (who isn't exactly a physical specimen) is turning 65 in March. We'll eventually see what Mahomes looks like without Reid.

In five years as a starter, he has surpassed many of the top QBs of all time in achievements. He has more playoff wins than Marino (Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs and Mahomes is 10-3 and could be 11-3 this Sunday). He will likely have two league MVPs after the voting this year which is more than Marino and the same amount as Montana (only Brady, Manning, Farve, Rodgers, and Unitas have more). He could have two Super Bowl rings which is more than most QBs.

I guess he could get injured in the next year or two and tank the rest of his career, but Mahomes has probably already achieved enough to get him into the Hall.

He has Allen, Burrow, Herbert, and Jackson this year and he is most likely league MVP and potentially have another ring. I am not sure the competition is going to stop the guy from being the best in the league.

Again, I don't think he is in the top five yet, but I can see the case for it. I would certainly consider putting him in the top 10 even if he retired after the game on Sunday.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think Elway's career can be tough to evaluate. He was an NFL MVP and he did have 5 SB appearances with 2 wins and 1 SB MVP. But his SB stats in total are awful and he really only contributed favorably in the last one (when he won MVP). He was much better (but still not great) in the conference rounds of the postseason. He had decent mobility but he wasn't a prolific running quarterback (like the current crop of running QBs).

Weighing all facets of the game I don't think there's justification for excluding Elway from the top 10. I think it's fair to compare Elway and Staubach. I don't think either could be considered "wildly better" than the either but I would have Elway ahead. Bradshaw slots in ahead of both. He's 4-0 in Super Bowls with stellar play and 2 SB MVPs. He also took down Staubach's Cowboys in two of those SB wins.

Bledsoe frankly shouldn't be brought up in these 'best of' discussions. He was a highly flawed regular season quarterback and he was a total disaster in the postseason.

The last paragraph describes Elway, only John could run and had the Mile High home advantage.

Flutie was wasted. By the NFL. He's obviously in my top 10 all time.

 

[goheels22002]

do you then factor in guys like manning & brady who understood their offense and called most plays at the line? or changed plays at the line after making reads? or the fact that the defense has the same advantage, with coaches and video and a mic from the sideline calling plays?

Among QBs who called their own plays, Johnny Unitas has to be #1. He called all of his own plays. When you think about it, if your job is be both QB and Offensive Coordinator as it was in the days when the defense could commit felonies without seeing a yellow flag, Otto Graham has to be top five as well.

Does anybody out there know about when coaches started calling all the plays by "sending in the play" via running backs and receivers? My recollection was that became standard operating procedure in the late 70s/early 80s. When did speakers in the helmets become standard for OCs to call plays from behind a Denny's menu masquerading as a play card?

One other thought on this for me is that Randall Cunningham was the best running and passing quarterback I've ever seen. That 1998 season when he had Cris Carter, Randy Moss, and Jake Reed at wide receiver and they set the NFL record for points scored in a season is still one of the greatest in pro football history. Randy Moss was a rookie and was impossible to cover.

 

[p8ryts]

Among QBs who called their own plays, Johnny Unitas has to be #1. He called all of his own plays. When you think about it, if your job is be both QB and Offensive Coordinator as it was in the days when the defense could commit felonies without seeing a yellow flag, Otto Graham has to be top five as well.

Does anybody out there know about when coaches started calling all the plays by "sending in the play" via running backs and receivers? My recollection was that became standard operating procedure in the late 70s/early 80s. When did speakers in the helmets become standard for OCs to call plays from behind a Denny's menu masquerading as a play card?

One other thought on this for me is that Randall Cunningham was the best running and passing quarterback I've ever seen. That 1998 season when he had Cris Carter, Randy Moss, and Jake Reed at wide receiver and they set the NFL record for points scored in a season is still one of the greatest in pro football history. Randy Moss was a rookie and was impossible to cover.

Innovative Paul Brown voted NFL's greatest game changer

Innovative coach Paul Brown voted NFL's greatest game changer

www.usatoday.com

BROWN, PAUL E. | Encyclopedia of Cleveland History | Case Western Reserve University

BROWN, PAUL E. (7 Sept. 1908-5 Aug. 1991) was the head coach of the CLEVELAND BROWNS from its beginnings in 1946 through 1962. An innovative and highl...

case.edu

Paul Brown started calling plays and sending them in with guards alternating each play. Not certain of date. Probably mid 50's. Remember seeing that on tv.

Art Modell has the dubious distinction of firing Paul Brown and Bill Belichick, two of the greatest coaches in football.

 

[crawhammer]

In five years as a starter, he has surpassed many of the top QBs of all time in achievements. He has more playoff wins than Marino (Marino was 8-10 in the playoffs and Mahomes is 10-3 and could be 11-3 this Sunday). He will likely have two league MVPs after the voting this year which is more than Marino and the same amount as Montana (only Brady, Manning, Farve, Rodgers, and Unitas have more). He could have two Super Bowl rings which is more than most QBs.

Marino is a great quarterback with prolific regular season numbers. He sucked in the postseason. Sad but true. Mahomes passes Marino with another Super Bowl win this weekend. But he's still not cracking the top 5 all time. And he sure as **** isn't #2 like that mental case Orlovsky says.

He has Allen, Burrow, Herbert, and Jackson this year and he is most likely league MVP and potentially have another ring. I am not sure the competition is going to stop the guy from being the best in the league.

Mahomes has had a great season, no question. He's outlasted everyone but Hurts. And he NEEDS this Super Bowl or his legacy rocket ship will be crashing back down to Earth (again). 1-2 in the big game with two previous subpar performances already is not going to be a good look. And when he starts fresh next year, and the year after, etc. he's going to have the gauntlet of Allen, Burrow and Herbert waiting for him.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

People really still put Elway top 5-10, huh? He's firmly in that 15-20 range imo.

Mahomes is closer to the top 5-10 than people think. We haven't seen a QB play the position this good, this early. I'm not taking 5-10 QB'S over him.

Also Marino never won anything but is the only guy with stats to stand next to the new group except he did it 30-40 years ago. Stats > accomplishments and yes hardware matters but not as much in these discussions imo.

Steve Young is top 5-7.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Also this is exactly why you'll never see Dan in a QB room. He's way too over the top. Fun for 5 minutes but you can't take someone like that seriously all day/almost every day during certain parts of the year. Smart guy but full of himself like Dilfer.

I legitimately could not see him and Bill sharing the same space.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Among QBs who called their own plays, Johnny Unitas has to be #1. He called all of his own plays. When you think about it, if your job is be both QB and Offensive Coordinator as it was in the days when the defense could commit felonies without seeing a yellow flag, Otto Graham has to be top five as well.

Does anybody out there know about when coaches started calling all the plays by "sending in the play" via running backs and receivers? My recollection was that became standard operating procedure in the late 70s/early 80s. When did speakers in the helmets become standard for OCs to call plays from behind a Denny's menu masquerading as a play card?

One other thought on this for me is that Randall Cunningham was the best running and passing quarterback I've ever seen. That 1998 season when he had Cris Carter, Randy Moss, and Jake Reed at wide receiver and they set the NFL record for points scored in a season is still one of the greatest in pro football history. Randy Moss was a rookie and was impossible to cover.

You're right about Unitas.

And Randall. Now, Moss was a freak, but Randall was great in his own right. Runs in the family.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Innovative Paul Brown voted NFL's greatest game changer

Innovative coach Paul Brown voted NFL's greatest game changer

www.usatoday.com

BROWN, PAUL E. | Encyclopedia of Cleveland History | Case Western Reserve University

BROWN, PAUL E. (7 Sept. 1908-5 Aug. 1991) was the head coach of the CLEVELAND BROWNS from its beginnings in 1946 through 1962. An innovative and highl...

case.edu

Paul Brown started calling plays and sending them in with guards alternating each play. Not certain of date. Probably mid 50's. Remember seeing that on tv.

Art Modell has the dubious distinction of firing Paul Brown and Bill Belichick, two of the greatest coaches in football.

And driving Jim Brown into retirement.

But I give Modell credit for sticking with Bill for as long as he did.

I get it. He sees the Red carpet rolled out for the Indians; meanwhile his stadium is crumbling.

 

[fightingirish595]

Wow I really like this. Almost posted that top 5 myself.

Looking back on this. peyton really cant be left out of the top 5.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

People really still put Elway top 5-10, huh? He's firmly in that 15-20 range imo.

Mahomes is closer to the top 5-10 than people think. We haven't seen a QB play the position this good, this early. I'm not taking 5-10 QB'S over him.

Also Marino never won anything but is the only guy with stats to stand next to the new group except he did it 30-40 years ago. Stats > accomplishments and yes hardware matters but not as much in these discussions imo.

Steve Young is top 5-7.

Disagreeing, but lots of people agree with you.

Elway is maybe top 50.

Mahomes is not as good as Tarkenton.

Marino is Fouts. HOF yes, top ten no.

Young.

Like a Rypien with longer longevity.

I'm not saying Steve Young sucks,

...uh...

Um.

Hmmmmm.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Look, you give a guy a starting job and let him fire away, you'll see a lot of passing yards & TD's.

Like with Derek Carr.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Looking back on this. peyton really cant be left out of the top 5.

Top 5 racking up stats maybe.

Trusting to win a football game, Peyton, top 50 I suppose.

 

[fightingirish595]

People really still put Elway top 5-10, huh? He's firmly in that 15-20 range imo.

Mahomes is closer to the top 5-10 than people think. We haven't seen a QB play the position this good, this early. I'm not taking 5-10 QB'S over him.

Also Marino never won anything but is the only guy with stats to stand next to the new group except he did it 30-40 years ago. Stats > accomplishments and yes hardware matters but not as much in these discussions imo.

Steve Young is top 5-7.

Elway is top 5 in talent. looking back I can see top 5 being a reach but I think top 10 has a fair argument. Mahomes cements himself in the top 10 with a win sunday. for now Im omitting him.

1) Brady
2) Montana
3) Peyton



If Unitas is being counted. He has to go top 5 IMO.

Favre, Bradshaw, rodgers, Young Probably should be in the top 10 as well. But now were running out of spots and Id hate to slight elway, staubach, kenny stabler etc.

As for elway, I really feel like he made the most out of what he had

 

[fightingirish595]

Top 5 racking up stats maybe.

Trusting to win a football game, Peyton, top 50 I suppose.

I am not going out of my way to discredit someone who won 5 MVPS and 2 SB. Sure he got carried to one of those, But like I said. not going out of my way to knock him.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Innovative Paul Brown voted NFL's greatest game changer

Innovative coach Paul Brown voted NFL's greatest game changer

www.usatoday.com

BROWN, PAUL E. | Encyclopedia of Cleveland History | Case Western Reserve University

BROWN, PAUL E. (7 Sept. 1908-5 Aug. 1991) was the head coach of the CLEVELAND BROWNS from its beginnings in 1946 through 1962. An innovative and highl...

case.edu

Paul Brown started calling plays and sending them in with guards alternating each play. Not certain of date. Probably mid 50's. Remember seeing that on tv.

Art Modell has the dubious distinction of firing Paul Brown and Bill Belichick, two of the greatest coaches in football.

Paul Brown passed over Bill Walsh as HC of the Bengals, then he blackballed Walsh from getting a HC job in the NFL (Walsh has stated this.) The 49ers-Bengals rivalry in the 80s is really underrated.

 

[fightingirish595]

Paul Brown passed over Bill Walsh as HC of the Bengals, then he blackballed Walsh from getting a HC job in the NFL (Walsh has stated this.) The 49ers-Bengals rivalry in the 80s is really underrated.

IMO paul brown has an argument for being the 2nd greatest head coach of all time. I know BB speaks very highly of him

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

IMO paul brown has an argument for being the 2nd greatest head coach of all time. I know BB speaks very highly of him

Who is 1st?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Disagreeing, but lots of people agree with you.

Elway is maybe top 50.

Top 50? I like you lol. He's a top 25 lock though.

Mahomes is not as good as Tarkenton.

Whoa buddy ...

Elway is top 5 in talent. looking back I can see top 5 being a reach but I think top 10 has a fair argument. Mahomes cements himself in the top 10 with a win sunday. for now Im omitting him.

1) Brady
2) Montana
3) Peyton



If Unitas is being counted. He has to go top 5 IMO.

Favre, Bradshaw, rodgers, Young Probably should be in the top 10 as well. But now were running out of spots and Id hate to slight elway, staubach, kenny stabler etc.

As for elway, I really feel like he made the most out of what he had

I've had Brady, Manning, Young, Montana cemented in for a long time. #5 could go a lot of ways imo.

I like Elway but he just falls short when you compare him to the other greats in his era. Specifically as a passer and playing like **** in big games. Again just think he's firmly in that 15-20 range.

Marino is Fouts. HOF yes, top ten no.

Young.

Like a Rypien with longer longevity.

I'm not saying Steve Young sucks,

...uh...

Um.

Hmmmmm.

You started off so strong and we were getting along bashing Jon Elway - George but fell off a Tom Brady size cliff circa 2016-17.

I don't know what's worse lol
Fran > Mahomes or
Comparing Rypien to Young.

YA 8.0 > 7.1
CMP % 64 > 56
AY/A 7.94 > 6.43
NY/A 6.89 > 6.57
ANY/A 6.85 > 5.96

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I am not going out of my way to discredit someone who won 5 MVPS and 2 SB. Sure he got carried to one of those, But like I said. not going out of my way to knock him.

Favre...

Morrall...Esiason...Kapp...Gannon... Newton...