OT: Cassell's Success this year

[nabwong]

Different QB fit different system. Pioli knew what they were getting and how he fit their system. There's a limit to how much we can compare QB. Cassel might not be spectacular but he doesn't turn the ball over. He's poised in the pocket and has a good arm. There aren't many QBs i'd take over Cassel for OUR system. But he'd probably suck in the Indy's or Eagles' offense.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Different QB fit different system. Pioli knew what they were getting and how he fit their system. There's a limit to how much we can compare QB. Cassel might not be spectacular but he doesn't turn the ball over. He's poised in the pocket and has a good arm. There aren't many QBs i'd take over Cassel for OUR system. But he'd probably suck in the Indy's or Eagles' offense.

Indy's? He'd do OK since it's like ours based on read the D and exploit. Eagles, he'd suck as would Brady. What's the point?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Good review. I would point out that had Cleveland traded the 2009 2nd, drafting McCoy is N/A. If the Rams traded for Cassel, do they draft Suh or have a chance?

The biggest loser here is Josh McDaniels.

:agree:

Given that apparently Jay Cutler was already pissed b/c of Shanahan's firing, I'm wondering why McDaniels didn't immediately go after Cassel. After all, Cassel knew McDaniels system (he'd been studying/playing in it four four years), and had mutual respect/belief in each other.

Plus, as was noted above, Cassel's not perfect, but he's not careless with the football.

 

[upstater1]

I'd respectfully disagree, but one this is clear. Both QBs are smart and manage the game very well.



I also think Flacco is a good QB, but we need to qualify elite. I only see 4 in that catagory now. Brees, Peyton, TB and Rivers.

I take Rodgers over Rivers any day of the week.

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

Cassel will make the Pro-Bowl as the first alternate this year. Brady, Rivers and Manning will get voted over.

Brady and Rivers will skip, Cassel and one of the Flacco/Big Rapey/Garrard bunch will get in.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Cassel is a total "System QB" and way over-rated. Where have I heard this before?

Seriously, I was a believer in Cassel being a bona-fide NFL QB after seeing him handle the snap count here in '08 and remember that I really wanted to see him go to Minnesota where I feel he would've been just what they needed. Unfortunately, they had a coach with his head up his *****.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I take Rodgers over Rivers any day of the week.

Forgot to include Rodgers. No question that he is elite.

In terms of being vastly superior to Rivers, I'd respectfully disagree. I think they are both in the same category.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

:agree:

Given that apparently Jay Cutler was already pissed b/c of Shanahan's firing, I'm wondering why McDaniels didn't immediately go after Cassel. After all, Cassel knew McDaniels system (he'd been studying/playing in it four four years), and had mutual respect/belief in each other.

Plus, as was noted above, Cassel's not perfect, but he's not careless with the football.

Inexperience? trying to time too perfectly?

Considering the number of Pats players signed, it is puzzling. Maybe McDaniels thought he could correct because the issues seemed to be between Cutler and the owner.

Orton has done a commendable job. However, as Shanahan has proven this year; he's a diaster with defense. Cassel would have freed up resources to get the defense problem along much further.

 

[coolguy]

Forgot to include Rodgers. No question that he is elite.

In terms of being vastly superior to Rivers, I'd respectfully disagree. I think they are both in the same category.

A-rod has proven to be somewhat fragile, while rivers has never missed a game.

 

[RobertWeathers]

A-rod has proven to be somewhat fragile, while rivers has never missed a game.

Rivers has been more durable, but I wouldn't say Rodgers is fragile. He'd had two concussions this year but prior to he started 32 consecutive games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Congrats to Pioli and Cassell for winning the afc West. But does cassells success have more to do with the schedule. Its a very similar schedule if not easier then 2008 with the pats. Cassell surprised everyone in 2008 but faced the Nfc west and afc west. This year he faced the afc west twice, nfc west, as well as last years last place teams in afc. Last year cassell was mediocre. Anyone think the season cassell is having is legit or more surcumstance.

Football Outsiders said something
Similar.

Last year, the Chiefs were a mess. By week 6, the beating Cassel had taken had made him hesitant and messed with his mechanics. He almost never had any time to throw the ball and, when he did, his receivers dropped passes at a record pace. It was a completely disfunctional offense, and Cassel took the heat for it.

In the offseason:

the team replaced the center and right guard, and the left tackle got used to being at the weight Haley demanded of him. As a result, the line's been fairly solid.

Bowe lost something like 20 pounds and became more focused. He's quicker now, gaining separation that he couldn't get last year, and he's doing a better job of holding onto the football. Combined with a tight end who's been very good for a rookie, and some other receiver moves, and you've got a better corps, although it still needs a legit WR2 since Chambers is washed up.

Weis came in, replacing Haley, giving Cassel a coordinator who's more in line with what he was used to in New England.


The result is a much calmer Matt Cassel, who has rediscovered his mechanics and slowed down his internal clock. The second half of the Denver blowout seems to have served a similar role for him in K.C. that the Jets game served for him here in New England, because it seems to have kicked him into a higher gear.

This season, he's probably been the #4 QB in the AFC, behind Brady, Rivers and Roethlisberger, and ahead of Manning and Flacco.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

This season, he's probably been the #4 QB in the AFC, behind Brady, Rivers and Roethlisberger, and ahead of Manning and Flacco.

I suppose Roethlisberger gets credit for winning more games, but:

Roethlisberger: 225/367 (61.3%), 2920 yards, 8.0 YPA, 15 TD, 5 INT, 47 20-yd passes, 6 40-yd passes, 94.3 rating
Cassel: 251/417 (60.2%), 3001 yards, 7.2 YPA, 27 TD, 5 INT, 40 20-yd passes, 4 40-yd passes, 98.8 rating

Nearly double the TDs on just 50 more passes.

And, oh yes:

Chiefs: 356 points (T-10), 39 offensive TDs, 4 non-offensive TDs, 19 FGs
Steelers: 334 points (17), 32 offensive TDs, 4 non-offensive TDs, 27 FGs
Patriots: 480 points (1), 52 offensive TDs, 8 non-offensive TDs, 21 FGs

 

[Deus Irae]

I suppose Roethlisberger gets credit for winning more games, but:

Roethlisberger: 225/367 (61.3%), 2920 yards, 8.0 YPA, 15 TD, 5 INT, 47 20-yd passes, 6 40-yd passes, 94.3 rating
Cassel: 251/417 (60.2%), 3001 yards, 7.2 YPA, 27 TD, 5 INT, 40 20-yd passes, 4 40-yd passes, 98.8 rating

Nearly double the TDs on just 50 more passes.

And, oh yes:

Chiefs: 356 points (T-10), 39 offensive TDs, 4 non-offensive TDs, 19 FGs
Steelers: 334 points (17), 32 offensive TDs, 4 non-offensive TDs, 27 FGs
Patriots: 480 points (1), 52 offensive TDs, 8 non-offensive TDs, 21 FGs

Rothlisberger's bulk numbers suffer from his suspension.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Rothlisberger's bulk numbers suffer from his suspension.

Which was entirely self-inflicted, so he gets absolutely zero credit from me on that count.

 

[Deus Irae]

Which was entirely self-inflicted, so he gets absolutely zero credit from me on that count.

It's not about understanding, though. It's about context, just as comparing Cassel to Brady would require you to say "Well, Brady played in every game, but Cassel missed one because of his appendix".

This is just picayune stuff, though. I place Roethlisberger slightly above Cassel for this season, you don't. So be it. It doesn't matter anyway, since the NFL ballwashers will put Manning in the Pro Bowl ahead of both of them.

 

[HershilShah23]

I cannot say that I am shocked, I knew what he was capable of when he led us to an 11-5 record but we still missed playoffs.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

It's not about understanding, though. It's about context, just as comparing Cassel to Brady would require you to say "Well, Brady played in every game, but Cassel missed one because of his appendix".

This is just picayune stuff, though. I place Roethlisberger slightly above Cassel for this season, you don't. So be it. It doesn't matter anyway, since the NFL ballwashers will put Manning in the Pro Bowl ahead of both of them.

The other thing is I wasn't really trying to compare bulk numbers; my main point isn't so much that Roethlisberger hasn't thrown as many TDs as Cassel per se, so much as that, given not too dissimilar number of attempts, Roethlisberger hasn't produced all that much more than Cassel has (e.g., TD%: Roethlisberger 4.1%, Cassel 6.5%).

 

[RodThePat]

Rothlisberger's bulk numbers suffer from his suspension.

But he is not talking about bulk numbers. His TD% is lower than Cassel's and his INT% higher. The games he missed don't come into play in this comparison.

 

[Deus Irae]

But he is not talking about bulk numbers. His TD% is lower than Cassel's and his INT% higher. The games he missed don't come into play in this comparison.

But that doesn't take different offensive systems into account. You have to toss in bulk numbers because the Steelers pass more than the Chiefs and that's part of the result. The Steelers also go deep much more than the Chiefs, which impacts some of the efficiency numbers (comp% being the easiest example).

As a matter of fact, missed games is one of the reasons people give for not choosing Vick as MVP.

 

[nabwong]

Indy's? He'd do OK since it's like ours based on read the D and exploit. Eagles, he'd suck as would Brady. What's the point?

The point is that Cassel's success is not a complete surprise given the system he's paired with and comparing QBs is not as straightforward as we think it is.