OT: 2021 NFL QB Prospects List or 1st Round Discussion

[upstater1]

If they land one or two in the draft I’d be ecstatic to have either. However if we don’t, I’d rather draft the best wr available and make a trade back up into the late first or early second to get the qb. However there Are also two good first round te’s available this upcoming draft as well. We got holes.

In this draft, you could trade back from your 1st round position and still land a WR just as good as who you would have taken early. Waddle, Chase, Bateman, Moore, DeVonta S., Marshall. Any one of these 6 could be the 1st WR taken.

 

[scott99]

Wilson looks just like Mahomes in terms of how he plays. If we can get the same production, I'd happily take him.

EDIT: The more I watch, he's got a lot of Kyler in his game, too. In terms of size, he's closer to Mahomes but not quite as big. I like what I see.

He’s 6’3”, so same height as Mahomes, but Wilson is only 210 pounds, whereas Mahomes is 230. I do see some Mahomes in his play style. Saw an interview, he tries to pattern his game on Mahomes and Rodgers.

 

[lancerman]

Luck was a massive disappointment in hindsight. He was certainly not a bust but he never came close to all of the hype. He was a solid starting QB period. Playing in a dome in a pass happy era, he finished his short career with a Quarterback rating of 89.5 and a post season rating of 73.4. 4 post season wins in his entire career. He never had a 16 game stretch as good as the one Tannehill just had.

Peyton Manning took 6 years to get to an AFCCG. Luck took 3. Peyton took the same 6 years to win a playoff game. Luck took 2. Luck had a 40 TD season 3 years in.

The injuries are the only thing that make Luck a “failure”

 

[Gabriel_p94]

Luck was a massive disappointment in hindsight. He was certainly not a bust but he never came close to all of the hype. He was a solid starting QB period. Playing in a dome in a pass happy era, he finished his short career with a Quarterback rating of 89.5 and a post season rating of 73.4. 4 post season wins in his entire career. He never had a 16 game stretch as good as the one Tannehill just had.

I guess if your looking at Luck the player instead of the situation he was in then I guess you can say he was a disappointment. But the front office that he was drafted in was the real disappointment. They refused to worry about getting him any kind of help up front. After all the hits that he took eventually added up he decided to walk away. I agree with one of the other posters from earlier that said if you put Luck with belichick and our front office( we have our problems also) he’d be easily a top 3 qb right now and possibly have a couple of rings to go along with it.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I guess if your looking at Luck the player instead of the situation he was in then I guess you can say he was a disappointment. But the front office that he was drafted in was the real disappointment. They refused to worry about getting him any kind of help up front. After all the hits that he took eventually added up he decided to walk away. I agree with one of the other posters from earlier that said if you put Luck with belichick and our front office( we have our problems also) he’d be easily a top 3 qb right now and possibly have a couple of rings to go along with it.

I don't understand it.

Luck was a great player. He took over carried a borderline talentless team. No OL, targets (WR/TE/RB) besides TY. Defense was a joke. Coaching wasn't anything to speak of.

They were a 2 win team when they drafted him. He carried them to 11 wins the next 3 years and playoffs where he most notably got steamrolled by the Bill & Brady. Hardly anything to be ashamed of with the cast he had.

Not only that but the FO/Owner actually hurried, put pressure on him to come back from injury when the owner was in the midst of many benders. Again hardly his fault.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

In this draft, you could trade back from your 1st round position and still land a WR just as good as who you would have taken early. Waddle, Chase, Bateman, Moore, DeVonta S., Marshall. Any one of these 6 could be the 1st WR taken.

Also 14 receivers last year taken all better than NKeal Harry. Sad.

But for the QB class coming up, I think there are players beyond the top3 who can be developed.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I don't understand it.

Luck was a great player. He took over carried a borderline talentless team. No OL, targets (WR/TE/RB) besides TY. Defense was a joke. Coaching wasn't anything to speak of.

They were a 2 win team when they drafted him. He carried them to 11 wins the next 3 years and playoffs where he most notably got steamrolled by the Bill & Brady. Hardly anything to be ashamed of with the cast he had.

Not only that but the FO/Owner actually hurried, put pressure on him to come back from injury when the owner was in the midst of many benders. Again hardly his fault.

So if the Pats select Lawrence with the # 1 pick this year you'd be happy if he had a career similar to Luck? A QB that probably belongs on the same tier as someone like a DAk Prescott or Tony Romo? He had a couple good years when he was healthy and played from behind quite a bit so he picked up a ton of volume stats. Had one career postseason game with a rating over 100 and generally played horribly in all 4 postseason losses. He played with a reckless abandon that was fun to watch but also contributed to some of his injury issues. Currently the 2nd best QB from his draft class but a few others are still playing.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

So if the Pats select Lawrence with the # 1 pick this year you'd be happy if he had a career similar to Luck? A QB that probably belongs on the same tier as someone like a DAk Prescott or Tony Romo? He had a couple good years when he was healthy and played from behind quite a bit so he picked up a ton of volume stats. Had one career postseason game with a rating over 100 and generally played horribly in all 4 postseason losses. He played with a reckless abandon that was fun to watch but also contributed to some of his injury issues. Currently the 2nd best QB from his draft class but a few others are still playing.

With respect DDDS this is a casual take or way of looking at this. Too black and white.

Luck the prospect-player are different from the landing spot and ending of his career. Landing spot is so important for a QB and Luck had absolutely no help there.

They were like 2-14 and Indy was void of talent everywhere. No more Mathis, Freeny, Sanders, Peyton, Dungy, Polian etc

He walked into a bad situation and immediately made them a lot better. Not just better but carrying them to the playoffs multiple times with, again, no help. I mean Luck was handing the ball off to Trent F'n Richardson and Donald Brown. Had no one to throw to except Hilton. He played for a team that gave up a 1st for that bust after he was a bust. Talk about no help around him. And the defense was giving up the most points ever one season. Just no help anywhere.

Luck also had a poor OL that was not only getting him killed but basically made it so he was trying to win the game on every throw. Manning was the exact same way. Except he actually had talent around him. Now this is where landing spot matters. Conversely Brady & Bill were conservative, counter-punchers. Whereas Indy asked their QB's to win the games, every game, on almost every pass. Again landing spot and differing styles. Not to mention rushing him back from multiple injuries. Lacerated kidney, shoulder, ribs, concussions ... They had no idea how to protect or build around him.

Context matters. Luck was a great prospect and player. NFL GM's had him as a top 5 QB a few years after he came into into the league and he would be in the conversion for #1 overall in any draft. Including this one.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

With respect DDDS this is a casual take or way of looking at this. Too black and white.

Luck the prospect-player are different from the landing spot and ending of his career. Landing spot is so important for a QB and Luck had absolutely no help there.

They were like 2-14 and Indy was void of talent everywhere. No more Mathis, Freeny, Sanders, Peyton, Dungy, Polian etc

He walked into a bad situation and immediately made them a lot better. Not just better but carrying them to the playoffs multiple times with, again, no help. I mean Luck was handing the ball off to Trent F'n Richardson and Donald Brown. Had no one to throw to except Hilton. He played for a team that gave up a 1st for that bust after he was a bust. Talk about no help around him. And the defense was giving up the most points ever one season. Just no help anywhere.

Luck also had a poor OL that was not only getting him killed but basically made it so he was trying to win the game on every throw. Manning was the exact same way. Except he actually had talent around him. Now this is where landing spot matters. Conversely Brady & Bill were conservative, counter-punchers. Whereas Indy asked their QB's to win the games, every game, on almost every pass. Again landing spot and differing styles. Not to mention rushing him back from multiple injuries. Lacerated kidney, shoulder, ribs, concussions ... They had no idea how to protect or build around him.

Context matters. Luck was a great prospect and player. NFL GM's had him as a top 5 QB a few years after he came into into the league and he would be in the conversion for #1 overall in any draft. Including this one.

Yeah landing spot matters a ton. For example Thomas Brady (who I love) on any other team is probably a college tv analyst the past 15 years . (Ducks)

.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I agree that hypothetically Luck on the right team could have had a much better career - maybe even a HOF one. Similar arguments could be had for hundreds of players across the league but the reality is he played where he played and his results were ultimately disappointing. I don't hate Luck but I also never worried about the Patriots playing him unlike a number of other QBs of this era.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Luck turned around a bad idea colts team with very little help from anybody else.

Lawrence is a better than luck was in reading defenses, throwing the deep ball and executing at the goal line.

Lawrence is the best qb I have seen since Peyton.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I agree that hypothetically Luck on the right team could have had a much better career - maybe even a HOF one. Similar arguments could be had for hundreds of players across the league but the reality is he played where he played and his results were ultimately disappointing. I don't hate Luck but I also never worried about the Patriots playing him unlike a number of other QBs of this era.

In regards to the bolded, to an extent but most players don't have HOF potential. Not a HOF career but you saw that type of potential in Luck in college (hence the generational prospect talk, #1 overall etc) and his play on a gods awful team backs that up.

As for not fearing him, I'm sure no one did on that team. Those teams were a joke. We had both goats and he had absolutely no one. That said literally every GM in the league would have thought about taking him over their current QB around 2012-2016.

Too each their own but your line of thinking is too black & white, a little too casual for me with all due respect. Context matters and watching Manning, Luck closely a few things stood out. The biggest thing is the fact that Indy asked them to play hero ball a lot. They were trying to score 20 points with every pass, type of deal.

It's actually a testament to how great both were. Both came out the gates ready. Luck more so than 99.9% of QB's entering the league. Luck was throwing 4K 20+ TD from his rookie year ... I love this board but every QB is terrible besides Brady. Esp his peers who he played against, they're all garbage, chokers and overrated. It's tough to take someone serious with that attitude or line of thinking.

I mean the guy was playing outstanding, with numerous injuries. Sure he played reckless once and a great while. That's what happens when your OL is trash. Defense is giving up the most points in the history of the game. Chuck Pag's is your coach. Owner is a walking pharmacy while you're actually banged up. And since we're talking "weapons", let's look at Luck's ... Trent Richardson, Ahmed Bradshaw, Hakeem Nicks, Reggie Wayne, TY, Fleener, Dwayne Allen & Griff Whalen. Nicks & Wayne were done, out of the league the next year in 2016 I believe. Same for Bradshaw. Richardson was putrid. Luck went for 4761 - 40 TD/18 INT. That is QB elevating players past their prime, making it work when nothing is easy & putting a team on his back.

Not trying to argue I just think there's some groupthink on this board at times on certain topics.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I never said Luck was a bad QB I just do not think he was great. His career was disappointing and he did not live up to the hype. He was one of the first rookie QBs to take full advantage of the new pass happy NFL so his volume numbers initially really stood out. (similar to how all new QB's are setting rookie records weekly in an even more pass happy league right now) The Colts were an established successful organization who had 9 straight double digit win seasons prior to 1 year they tanked which was exasperated by their horrific QB play. They then went out and turned over much of their roster including adding Luck. Luck certainly contributed to their quick turnaround and looked poised to become a top tier QB after his first 3 season but it just never materialized. In 2015 they were 2-5 with Luck and then went 5-3 with Hasslebeck after Luck was hurt. In 2016 they were a .500 team. He missed 2017 then came back with a solid 2018 season and that was it. I understand others have a different view.

I also feel that Eli even getting a sniff at the HOF will be an absolute travesty. I understand my dislike for him is Patriots centric but if a .500 career QB that was consistently rated around the middle of the pack QB ratings wise then there will need to be 20+ QB's they should be sending in their jacket sizes.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I never said Luck was a bad QB I just do not think he was great. His career was disappointing and he did not live up to the hype. He was one of the first rookie QBs to take full advantage of the new pass happy NFL so his volume numbers initially really stood out. (similar to how all new QB's are setting rookie records weekly in an even more pass happy league right now) The Colts were an established successful organization who had 9 straight double digit win seasons prior to 1 year they tanked which was exasperated by their horrific QB play. They then went out and turned over much of their roster including adding Luck. Luck certainly contributed to their quick turnaround and looked poised to become a top tier QB after his first 3 season but it just never materialized. In 2015 they were 2-5 with Luck and then went 5-3 with Hasslebeck after Luck was hurt. In 2016 they were a .500 team. He missed 2017 then came back with a solid 2018 season and that was it. I understand others have a different view.

I also feel that Eli even getting a sniff at the HOF will be an absolute travesty. I understand my dislike for him is Patriots centric but if a .500 career QB that was consistently rated around the middle of the pack QB ratings wise then there will need to be 20+ QB's they should be sending in their jacket sizes.

Luck was a lot better than you're giving him credit for and I'm not just hyping him up bc I love the player. He was an MVP candidate almost half the time he spent in the league. That's not opinion or its the opinion of almost everyone who had a vote. And again he was voted a top 5 QB by NFL GM's shortly after his rookie year.

I think both of us have killed the topic for now. Both cases stated.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

So if the Pats select Lawrence with the # 1 pick this year you'd be happy if he had a career similar to Luck? A QB that probably belongs on the same tier as someone like a DAk Prescott or Tony Romo? He had a couple good years when he was healthy and played from behind quite a bit so he picked up a ton of volume stats. Had one career postseason game with a rating over 100 and generally played horribly in all 4 postseason losses. He played with a reckless abandon that was fun to watch but also contributed to some of his injury issues. Currently the 2nd best QB from his draft class but a few others are still playing.

Another Andrew Luck would be better than what we have now. Or are you waiting for Pats to get lucky and draft another Brady in the 6th round? At the end of the day if you have the 1st overall pick you need to take the best player available and that's by far and away Trevor Lawrence.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Another Andrew Luck would be better than what we have now. Or are you waiting for Pats to get lucky and draft another Brady in the 6th round? At the end of the day if you have the 1st overall pick you need to take the best player available and that's by far and away Trevor Lawrence.

It's not getting lucky. Drafting and developing Brady, Cassel, Brissett, Garoppolo is a process but it can work. I don't think burning a first round pick on a QB means the kid will be good. We also have major needs at DT/DE, LB, OT, and TE. Pats could solidify another position and develop a mid-round QB

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It's not getting lucky. Drafting and developing Brady, Cassel, Brissett, Garoppolo is a process but it can work. I don't think burning a first round pick on a QB means the kid will be good. We also have major needs at DT/DE, LB, OT, and TE. Pats could solidify another position and develop a mid-round QB

Because our mid-round picks work out great, right? If we somehow (albeit unlikely) get the 1st overall pick, and Bill doesn't take Lawrence, he's going to be run out of town...

 

[ToonPatriot]

Zach Wilson is my QB2 in this draft, but as we won’t have a top 5 pick I’m happy for him to be QB4 on everyone else’s board.

BBs draft board is different to everyone else’s but man if Wilson is available when we pick and we go with a S...

 

[Uptown]

With respect DDDS this is a casual take or way of looking at this. Too black and white.

Luck the prospect-player are different from the landing spot and ending of his career. Landing spot is so important for a QB and Luck had absolutely no help there.

They were like 2-14 and Indy was void of talent everywhere. No more Mathis, Freeny, Sanders, Peyton, Dungy, Polian etc

He walked into a bad situation and immediately made them a lot better. Not just better but carrying them to the playoffs multiple times with, again, no help. I mean Luck was handing the ball off to Trent F'n Richardson and Donald Brown. Had no one to throw to except Hilton. He played for a team that gave up a 1st for that bust after he was a bust. Talk about no help around him. And the defense was giving up the most points ever one season. Just no help anywhere.

Luck also had a poor OL that was not only getting him killed but basically made it so he was trying to win the game on every throw. Manning was the exact same way. Except he actually had talent around him. Now this is where landing spot matters. Conversely Brady & Bill were conservative, counter-punchers. Whereas Indy asked their QB's to win the games, every game, on almost every pass. Again landing spot and differing styles. Not to mention rushing him back from multiple injuries. Lacerated kidney, shoulder, ribs, concussions ... They had no idea how to protect or build around him.

Context matters. Luck was a great prospect and player. NFL GM's had him as a top 5 QB a few years after he came into into the league and he would be in the conversion for #1 overall in any draft. Including this one.

Yep. All the Luck haters rate him by Brady’s standards & simply can’t see the forest for the trees. Luck himself was great; what you want in a QB. His teams/organization failed HIM. Anybody on here would roll out the red carpet to draft Luck as their QB. People can’t process what they’re watching and/or just BE HATIN’

 

[Doctor DDS]

My last comment on the topic.

I would be absolutely thrilled if the Pats have the opportunity to draft Lawrence because just about everyone believes him to be a future star though I would not want them to lose on purpose to get him. QB is the most important position in football and the Pats #1 - 5 priorities this off season is figuring that out.

I fully understand that everyone has a different opinion on what constitutes a great QB. My view is that there are maybe 5 or 6 great QB's playing at any one time. Clear HOFers. In the core of the Brady era I would put Manning, Brees, Rogers, Wilson, Mahomes and maybe Big Ben in that category. There is also a tier below of QB's that were plenty good enough to win with and the Pats would be lucky to find someone in this tier moving forward. Players like Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Philip Rivers and Andrew Luck. Many of whom may have had HOF careers if drafted into different circumstances.

I don't label the 2nd tier as great - some do. Many believe Rivers and Eli Manning are clear HOFers. I don't. I am fine disagreeing but do not have any sort of Luck hate. I realize how difficult it is to secure a great QB and would be thrilled if the Pats had someone of Luck's caliber at QB next year.