Osi Umenyiora can be had for a mid-round pick

[Kontradiction]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

He would play as many snaps as Wilfork.
The base is not the every down defense. We play half, or less of the snaps on defense from the base.
We really should begin considering the sub nickel/dime package as the base.
Burgess played as much as most starters last year and almost didnt take a snap from the base, and he had more plays rushing the QB than anyone.
Would you have a problem paying just north of 3mill for the guy who will spend the most snaps pass rushing on the entire team?

For one, Wilfork's role in this defense is more important than the role that Osi would be playing should he come here. Wilfork is the anchor to this defense. For another, contrary to popular belief, this team still did play a ton of 3-4 last season. On top of that, we already have situational pass rushers by the names of Tully Banta-Cain and Derrick Burgess (though you can argue how effective or ineffective he was in that role). Why pay $3M+ per year and give up a pick for a guy who we don't even know will be as effective in that area as he once was, whether his hand is on the ground or he's standing up? And, finally, in the Samuel thread you made a point about why you believe that the team looked at him as being expendable. Apply that same logic to Osi and the Giants. There is a reason why they are shopping him for a lower pick and that is because he wasn't as effective in his pass rushing role on top of being unhappy with the team about his reduced role there. Too many question marks for me and you can understand why I'm hesitant after the Burgess trade last year. No thanks.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The Burgess trade was a good idea that didn't work out. That happens. If Burgess played last season as well as it was expected he could/would, it would have been a fine trade.
There is absolutely a position on our team for a pass rushing DE who doesn't really have a spot in the 3-4 base. It gets them as much PT as Wilfork, as one of the starting LBs, as one of the 34 DEs, and as the nickel corner, all of which play about half the snaps. Its a 'starter' even though he doesnt have a spot in the base D.
Just because the results of the Burgess trade were uninspiring doesnt mean the intent of the trade was wrong. I dont know if Osi will be any more effective in the role than Burgess was/will be, but the idea is sound, the question is whether its the correct player.

But why couldn't he potentially be a full time starter if the Pats acquired him. People forget that most of the best LBs during the Super Bowl years started their careers as 4-3 DEs (McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Colvin). Heck, McGinest spent his first nine years with the Patriots primarily as a 4-3 DE. Why couldn't Umenyiora make the same type of transition that McGinest did? Maybe not as successfully, but still be a solid starter at OLB in a 3-4. He is about the same size as McGinest (ok, slightly shorter and lighter), but quicker than McGinest was.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

For one, Wilfork's role in this defense is more important than the role that Osi would be playing should he come here. Wilfork is the anchor to this defense. For another, contrary to popular belief, this team still did play a ton of 3-4 last season. On top of that, we already have situational pass rushers by the names of Tully Banta-Cain and Derrick Burgess (though you can argue how effective or ineffective he was in that role). Why pay $3M+ per year and give up a pick for a guy who we don't even know will be as effective in that area as he once was, whether his hand is on the ground or he's standing up? And, finally, in the Samuel thread you made a point about why you believe that the team looked at him as being expendable. Apply that same logic to Osi and the Giants. There is a reason why they are shopping him for a lower pick and that is because he wasn't as effective in his pass rushing role on top of being unhappy with the team about his reduced role there. Too many question marks for me and you can understand why I'm hesitant after the Burgess trade last year. No thanks.

When did $3 million become expensive in today's NFL? Nick Kazcur is getting a $2.7 million base and he looks to be a back up who will get even less time than Umenyiora if he came here.

Besides, in an uncapped year, what do we care what his salary is as long as Kraft is willing to pay it? If the Pats can give up a fourth or fifth rounder for him, why not.

 

[alphilip77]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Honestly, I could think of alot of better players we could spend our 4th rounder on. No thanks.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The boys a bit British, therefore I have the utmost confidence he'll produce in the 34, 43 or by himself.

His weakness against the run is the Nigerian bit.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The boys a bit British, therefore I have the utmost confidence he'll produce in the 34, 43 or by himself.

His weakness against the run is the Nigerian bit.

Somebody needs a history lesson,
Nigerians and Running go hand in hand lol

 

[The_Riddler]

That mid round pick was pissed away on Derrick Burgess

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Somebody needs a history lesson,
Nigerians and Running go hand in hand lol

Pulled from the archives. One of the greatest hits of AT

YouTube - Atwater Smacks Okoye

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

For one, Wilfork's role in this defense is more important than the role that Osi would be playing should he come here. Wilfork is the anchor to this defense. For another, contrary to popular belief, this team still did play a ton of 3-4 last season. On top of that, we already have situational pass rushers by the names of Tully Banta-Cain and Derrick Burgess (though you can argue how effective or ineffective he was in that role). Why pay $3M+ per year and give up a pick for a guy who we don't even know will be as effective in that area as he once was, whether his hand is on the ground or he's standing up? And, finally, in the Samuel thread you made a point about why you believe that the team looked at him as being expendable. Apply that same logic to Osi and the Giants. There is a reason why they are shopping him for a lower pick and that is because he wasn't as effective in his pass rushing role on top of being unhappy with the team about his reduced role there. Too many question marks for me and you can understand why I'm hesitant after the Burgess trade last year. No thanks.

We dont have Burgess right now.
There are 600-some snaps for someone to rush the passer.
Are you saying that isnt worth 3mil?
I havent even commented about the player, I am saying we need someone to fill the role he would fill. As of today that is going to be Crabel or Ninkovich apparently.
The comparison of not signing a guy to compete for a spot that we have a glaring need in vs not giving one of the richest ever contracts to a player because of a flaw are apples and oranges.
The 3mill will never affect the cap, who cares about it anyway?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

But why couldn't he potentially be a full time starter if the Pats acquired him. People forget that most of the best LBs during the Super Bowl years started their careers as 4-3 DEs (McGinest, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Colvin). Heck, McGinest spent his first nine years with the Patriots primarily as a 4-3 DE. Why couldn't Umenyiora make the same type of transition that McGinest did? Maybe not as successfully, but still be a solid starter at OLB in a 3-4. He is about the same size as McGinest (ok, slightly shorter and lighter), but quicker than McGinest was.

I think its a stretch. Bruschi, Vrabel and Colvin did not start their careers as 43 DEs, they played that spot in College. Osi has been around a long time and it is a longshot he could become an everydown OLB, but we wouldn't need him to be. He can do half the job, the half where you play DE in sub packages.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I hate him and the Giants, but I'd take him for a 4th rounder or later. As some have alluded to, the nickel is becoming more of a "base" defense and he's a pretty good pass rusher, which is much needed. I think he'd be a lot better than Burgess, but I don't think the Giants will deal him unless they get a 2nd or a 3rd and a 4th, and I wouldn't want the Pats to pay that price.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

He can be had because he's not effective anymore.

Yup ................... :yeahthat: ...... I'll take the draft pick.

 

[20HindSight20]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

i don't want any giants on this team.

:yeahthat:

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

I think its a stretch. Bruschi, Vrabel and Colvin did not start their careers as 43 DEs, they played that spot in College. Osi has been around a long time and it is a longshot he could become an everydown OLB, but we wouldn't need him to be. He can do half the job, the half where you play DE in sub packages.

First, people thought it was a long shot that McGinest would make the transistion either.

Second, I meant every down player (or near every down). When the Pats switched to a four man front with McGinest here, he put his hand on the ground in a DE role. As for how long he has been around, he has been in the league for less time than McGinest when he made the switch. He might not be able to make the switch, but if you look at his skill sets and strengths he is built to be a good OLB in the 3-4. Doesn't neccessarily mean he would be that.

Third, when I meant started their career, I meant college. Should have been more clear on that.

 

[nabwong]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

i don't want any giants on this team.

I would love Kevin Boss.

 

[Scouse Patriot]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Somebody needs a history lesson,
Nigerians and Running go hand in hand lol

Thats kinda running the other way...

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The Burgess trade was a good idea that didn't work out. That happens. If Burgess played last season as well as it was expected he could/would, it would have been a fine trade.
There is absolutely a position on our team for a pass rushing DE who doesn't really have a spot in the 3-4 base. It gets them as much PT as Wilfork, as one of the starting LBs, as one of the 34 DEs, and as the nickel corner, all of which play about half the snaps. Its a 'starter' even though he doesnt have a spot in the base D.
Just because the results of the Burgess trade were uninspiring doesnt mean the intent of the trade was wrong. I dont know if Osi will be any more effective in the role than Burgess was/will be, but the idea is sound, the question is whether its the correct player.

Here, Here!
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

We dont have Burgess right now.
There are 600-some snaps for someone to rush the passer.
Are you saying that isnt worth 3mil?
I havent even commented about the player, I am saying we need someone to fill the role he would fill. As of today that is going to be Crabel or Ninkovich apparently.
The comparison of not signing a guy to compete for a spot that we have a glaring need in vs not giving one of the richest ever contracts to a player because of a flaw are apples and oranges.
The 3mill will never affect the cap, who cares about it anyway?

Cousin let me add this. Jarvis Green weighs only about 15 lbs more, is almost 3 years older, was almost always a rotation guy until this year and no one one this site complained that he was making almost $5m per year. He just signed with Denver for $4.5m this year. Green had 28 sacks in nine years. Osi has 48.5 in six years. I can't wait for the "Well.... Osi plays for such a dominant D-Line" and of course Green had the terrible D-Lines of Seymour, Warren, Wilfork et.al. Green had only one sack last year as a Pats starter for most of the year.

If the cost of doing business with NY is reasonable, a 28 year old pass rusher isn't a bad thing. I know some of you say Ordick can be that guy. That is your opinion but no one knows if he can make it in the NFL. Osi is a proven commodity and what a great toy for BB who can play him both ways up or down. He has had 9 forced fumbles in the last two years of limited time and over his career he has had nine passes defended. He's getting in somebody's way in pass coverage!
DW Toys

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Cousin let me add this. Jarvis Green weighs only about 15 LBs more, is almost 4 years older, was almost always a rotation guy and no one one this site complained that he was making almost $5m per year.He just signed with Denver for $4.5m this year. Green had 28 sacks in nine years. Osi has 48.5 in six years. I can't wait for the "Wel....l Osi plays for such a dominant D-Line" and of course Green had the terrible D-Lines of Seymour, Warren, Wilfork et.al. Green had only one sack last year as a Pats starter for most of the year.
DW Toys

Well, Green did miss some games due to an injury, but your point remains. Not only would Osi be a better value than Green was last year, Green is just another player (with Burgess) who needs to be replaced on this roster. If we can get Osi for a 4th, I think that's a good deal, and still leaves us 4 picks in the top 60 to pick up talent.

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Well, Green did miss some games due to an injury, but your point remains. Not only would Osi be a better value than Green was last year, Green is just another player (with Burgess) who needs to be replaced on this roster. If we can get Osi for a 4th, I think that's a good deal, and still leaves us 4 picks in the top 60 to pick up talent.

I agree but he will cost more than a 4th. BB wants a third. Our #53 for the Giants third (#76) plus Osi works for me.

Or...........IMO I might even consider their 4th at #115.

(FYI-As an added comparison. Burgess is smaller, lighter and older and in eight years 52 sacks, versus 48.5 mentioned in six for Osi.)

Why take #115? You can then take our #119 plus #115 and I am sure get back up to a third rounder. The Bears are desperate for a pick or two and they have a third rounder. Or take that #115 and #119 and send to the Bears for TE Olsen. He is better or as good as any TE on the board who we need anyway. Frees up a TE pick in the second. Crumpler is our blocking TE. We don't need two blocking TE, and TB now has a luxury of going to a TE who can actually catch so that position won't be ignored as in the past.

You also have a DE spot you don't need to score a homerun with the Draft so it frees up a DE pick and a needed TE.

One trade can bring a top tier pass rush DE and a 70 catch TE both talented, NFL proven starters, young and decent in contract and we still hold the top three of our picks....I say that is great value.
DW Toys