Osi Umenyiora can be had for a mid-round pick

[captain stone]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Adalius for Osi?

Yeah; why not?

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

no no no. i meant what i typed.

the purposes were very intensive.

I sensed the intensity of those purposes when I first entered the thread.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

I sensed the intensity of those purposes when I first entered the thread.

Indents in porpoises?

that sounds cruel.

btw (or rather, back to the thread): I'd say no on Osi, for the reasons stated in previous posts re: his health and productivity sans the Walrus.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

I say do it if it is for a midround pick. His contract is really low right now. He will make $3.1 million in 2010, $3.125 million in 2011, and $3.975 million in 2012. At least AJ Smith thought he could play OLB in the 3-4 because the fact that he wanted him and Ernie Accorsi refused to include him in a trade for the first overall pick in the 2004 draft almost derailed the trade that sent Eli Manning to the Giants.

 

[Ghost of Ben Dreith]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The Giants are looking to move him because he is not happy with not starting. He was making waves and was a negative locker room influence last season.

He wants his plays.....not sure he would be thrilled to be here and platoon.

A mid-round pick is not a bad gamble, but really....I would rather pick up some DE in the 2nd round instead of trading for him.

 

[muzz]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

I actually think we are moving to the 4-3 this year. Makes it much easier for us.

What makes ya think that, the signing of a VG 3-4 NT like Wilfork?

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The Giants are looking to move him because he is not happy with not starting. He was making waves and was a negative locker room influence last season.

He wants his plays.....not sure he would be thrilled to be here and platoon.

A mid-round pick is not a bad gamble, but really....I would rather pick up some DE in the 2nd round instead of trading for him.

Why can't you pick up a DE in the second AND trade for Osi? Why is it you have to do one or the other. Odds are he would play OLB in the 3-4 and move to DE in four man fronts. Any DE added might move to DT in a four man front.

If the Pats only have to give up a fourth rounder for the guy and pay him a little over $3 million this year to play, why not give it a shot. He might actually benefit from taking his hand off the ground and playing out side the tackle in the 3-4. He is a smaller guy, but he is quick and has some good moves to get around the tackle. In theory at least, his skills and size should make him better in an OLB position of the 3-4 because he can get engulf by a tackle and guard inside.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

But is Osi just Burgess 2.0? We've already seen what happened when BB traded for a guy who didn't fit our system in desperation. Why flush more good picks down the drain?

Besides it looks like the Giants are looking for a 2nd round pick in return for Osi according to this article.

http://nationalsportsreview.com/spo...s-of-the-giants-trading-osi-umenyiora-“60-40/

 

[DW Toys]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Trading for him, playing a 3-4 and having him play DE in sub packages would make the defense better than either of those scenarios.

Absolutely. Tremendous point.
DW Toys

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

But is Osi just Burgess 2.0? We've already seen what happened when BB traded for a guy who didn't fit our system in desperation. Why flush more good picks down the drain?

Besides it looks like the Giants are looking for a 2nd round pick in return for Osi according to this article.

Mortensen: Odds Of the Giants trading Osi Umenyiora ?60-40? | NationalSportsReview.com

First, how do we know if he can fit the Pats' system or not? At least one other team (the Chargers) felt he could be an effective 3-4 OLB. Just because he like Burgess comes from a 4-3 background doesn't mean he doesn't fit the system. Beside, I think Burgess' problem was not that he didn't fit the system, but he had trouble adjusting to it. Osi, if trade for, would have OTAs, minicamp, training camp, and the preseason to learn the Pats' system which Burgess didn't have.

Second, whatever the Giants may be asking for is probably much more than they will get. Unless they want to dump him quickly and has a low asking price like the Steelers' had with Santonio Holmes, you never ask for what you are willing to settle for.

Third, if the Pats trade for Umenyiora on draft weekend, how was it done out of desperation? Did they move the season up to May 1st without telling anyone? Any trades you make draft weekend is because you are high on the guy (the Pats may or may not be high on Umenyiora), not because you ran out of options and just gotta make a move no matter how likely it is to fail. When has Belichick made a desperation move in April?

Fourth, we need to stop comparing every potential pick up to previous mistakes. Just because the Burgess trade didn't work out, you can't stop acquiring players through trade. Just because Adalius Thomas didn't work out, you don't stop signing marquee free agents if you can afford them and really want them.

We do not know what Belichick thinks of the guy. But Burgess is really irrelevant to the conversation. Burgess is one player. Umenyiora is another. Just because Burgess struggled to pick up the system at least until the last month (arguably if he played the entire season like he played the last month, the trade would not have been a bad one) doesn't mean Umenyiora would too.

If Belichick strongly believes the guy can make the transition and he can get him for something like a fourth rounder, why not make the move? Unlike Burgess, Umenyiora would have five months to work with the Pats before the season started to pick up the system. Lack of experience in the system seemed to be one of Burgess' biggest problems last year (and mea culpa, I refused to believe that would be the case when the Pats' traded for him).

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Do it. Osi's "bad year" was a year removed from a torn ACL, and the first year without Steve Spagnoula. In his bad year he still had 7 sacks 4 forced fumbles and a defensive TD.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

First, how do we know if he can fit the Pats' system or not? At least one other team (the Chargers) felt he could be an effective 3-4 OLB. Just because he like Burgess comes from a 4-3 background doesn't mean he doesn't fit the system. Beside, I think Burgess' problem was not that he didn't fit the system, but he had trouble adjusting to it. Osi, if trade for, would have OTAs, minicamp, training camp, and the preseason to learn the Pats' system which Burgess didn't have.

Second, whatever the Giants may be asking for is probably much more than they will get. Unless they want to dump him quickly and has a low asking price like the Steelers' had with Santonio Holmes, you never ask for what you are willing to settle for.

Third, if the Pats trade for Umenyiora on draft weekend, how was it done out of desperation? Did they move the season up to May 1st without telling anyone? Any trades you make draft weekend is because you are high on the guy (the Pats may or may not be high on Umenyiora), not because you ran out of options and just gotta make a move no matter how likely it is to fail. When has Belichick made a desperation move in April?

Fourth, we need to stop comparing every potential pick up to previous mistakes. Just because the Burgess trade didn't work out, you can't stop acquiring players through trade. Just because Adalius Thomas didn't work out, you don't stop signing marquee free agents if you can afford them and really want them.

We do not know what Belichick thinks of the guy. But Burgess is really irrelevant to the conversation. Burgess is one player. Umenyiora is another. Just because Burgess struggled to pick up the system at least until the last month (arguably if he played the entire season like he played the last month, the trade would not have been a bad one) doesn't mean Umenyiora would too.

If Belichick strongly believes the guy can make the transition and he can get him for something like a fourth rounder, why not make the move? Unlike Burgess, Umenyiora would have five months to work with the Pats before the season started to pick up the system. Lack of experience in the system seemed to be one of Burgess' biggest problems last year (and mea culpa, I refused to believe that would be the case when the Pats' traded for him).

The Burgess trade was a good idea that didn't work out. That happens. If Burgess played last season as well as it was expected he could/would, it would have been a fine trade.
There is absolutely a position on our team for a pass rushing DE who doesn't really have a spot in the 3-4 base. It gets them as much PT as Wilfork, as one of the starting LBs, as one of the 34 DEs, and as the nickel corner, all of which play about half the snaps. Its a 'starter' even though he doesnt have a spot in the base D.
Just because the results of the Burgess trade were uninspiring doesnt mean the intent of the trade was wrong. I dont know if Osi will be any more effective in the role than Burgess was/will be, but the idea is sound, the question is whether its the correct player.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

The Burgess trade was a good idea that didn't work out. That happens. If Burgess played last season as well as it was expected he could/would, it would have been a fine trade.
There is absolutely a position on our team for a pass rushing DE who doesn't really have a spot in the 3-4 base. It gets them as much PT as Wilfork, as one of the starting LBs, as one of the 34 DEs, and as the nickel corner, all of which play about half the snaps. Its a 'starter' even though he doesnt have a spot in the base D.
Just because the results of the Burgess trade were uninspiring doesnt mean the intent of the trade was wrong. I dont know if Osi will be any more effective in the role than Burgess was/will be, but the idea is sound, the question is whether its the correct player.

Do you really want to pay just north of $3M per year for someone who doesn't have a spot in the base defense?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

Do you really want to pay just north of $3M per year for someone who doesn't have a spot in the base defense?

He would play as many snaps as Wilfork.
The base is not the every down defense. We play half, or less of the snaps on defense from the base.
We really should begin considering the sub nickel/dime package as the base.
Burgess played as much as most starters last year and almost didnt take a snap from the base, and he had more plays rushing the QB than anyone.
Would you have a problem paying just north of 3mill for the guy who will spend the most snaps pass rushing on the entire team?

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

yes he can still play but no he is not a 15 sack guy anymore.



he is on the tradeing block cause he dose not like the system they are runing ther. im sure he is not going to like the pats 2 gap system. and he is to big and slow to play OLB. if the pats want to run a 1 gap 4-3 then i am ok with giveing up a late round pick for him.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

yes he can still play but no he is not a 15 sack guy anymore.



he is on the tradeing block cause he dose not like the system they are runing ther. im sure he is not going to like the pats 2 gap system. and he is to big and slow to play OLB. if the pats want to run a 1 gap 4-3 then i am ok with giveing up a late round pick for him.

He doesnt get to pick the system when he has so much value he is expendable and traded for a 4th round pick.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

No. BB has chose to grow his own talent with the first four picks. Let's hope it pays off in 4 days. ( Well,we won't know for two years).

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

He doesnt get to pick the system when he has so much value he is expendable and traded for a 4th round pick.

i agree you are right but the pats will pretty much end up with burgess #2 at 3 million a year. i just don't think he can play 3-4 OLB

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

i agree you are right but the pats will pretty much end up with burgess #2 at 3 million a year. i just don't think he can play 3-4 OLB

I dont want him at OLB. What is wrong with filling Burgess' role? We need to.

 

[patsfan-1982]

Re: Osi Umenyiora can be had for a Mid Round Pick

I dont want him at OLB. What is wrong with filling Burgess' role? We need to.

your right the pats can use some bodys maybe he can still be good as a 3rd down pass rusher.