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Only 8 OL's in the top 45; 9 between 71-100

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Dabruinz, whos your favorite prospects for us to take in first and 2nd round
 
The Pats interior OL lacks strength at the point of attack. That's really the main problem. Koppen has very good technique but I think we've all seen his physical limitations to man the center position. If you kick out help to Koppen with a guard, then you open a new gap for the defense to attack. It's a catch-22. Do you help Koppen so you don't get the defender straight up the gut on Brady. Or do you help and watch a defender come through free from the opening created by the help?

I'm not blaming the loss to the Jets all on Koppen. The entire OL played pretty poorly. Also the fact that Brady was confused by the Jets defensive schemes meant he held onto the ball longer than usual, also meaning that the OL had to hold their blocks longer, and they were just not up to the task.

The playoff losess boil down to play in the trenches. OL poor play yields in low amount of points scored, and lack of sustained drives. DL being unable to pressure Sanchez, allows him to carve up the secondary and no turnovers forced. TOs were the story of the game where the Pats could not overcome a 2 score deficit. IF we don't have the debacle of the fake punt, the Pats have an excellent chance to win that game going into the half down only 7-3.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although the loss was devastating, it was a really close game and if the Pats don't make those critical mistakes: INT pass by Brady, dropped TD catch by Crumpler, and the fake punt, they still could have very well won that game. We need upgrades on both lines, yes. We need a better pass rush, yes. But we're not that far away. We don't need to blow things up. But we do need to focus on serious upgrades.
 
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Shhh. Hey, DB, my post got deleted because of intellectual disparity regulations, but that doesn't mean I don't think you're sexy, you contrarian bastard, you! I deserve to be disciplined for making fun of players, and deserve your hot sports takes. Ohhh, you take message boards so seriously and that makes my thighs wetter than a Banzai Amazonian replica floating under a slide at Watercountry. You are brilliant you masculine man, you!
 
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The Pats interior OL lacks strength at the point of attack. That's really the main problem. Koppen has very good technique but I think we've all seen his physical limitations to man the center position. If you kick out help to Koppen with a guard, then you open a new gap for the defense to attack. It's a catch-22. Do you help Koppen so you don't get the defender straight up the gut on Brady. Or do you help and watch a defender come through free from the opening created by the help?

I'm not blaming the loss to the Jets all on Koppen. The entire OL played pretty poorly. Also the fact that Brady was confused by the Jets defensive schemes meant he held onto the ball longer than usual, also meaning that the OL had to hold their blocks longer, and they were just not up to the task.

The playoff losess boil down to play in the trenches. OL poor play yields in low amount of points scored, and lack of sustained drives. DL being unable to pressure Sanchez, allows him to carve up the secondary and no turnovers forced. TOs were the story of the game where the Pats could not overcome a 2 score deficit. IF we don't have the debacle of the fake punt, the Pats have an excellent chance to win that game going into the half down only 7-3.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although the loss was devastating, it was a really close game and if the Pats don't make those critical mistakes: INT pass by Brady, dropped TD catch by Crumpler, and the fake punt, they still could have very well won that game. We need upgrades on both lines, yes. We need a better pass rush, yes. But we're not that far away. We don't need to blow things up. But we do need to focus on serious upgrades.

Pretty spot on. Everything was firing on all cylinders when the team was executing. And we were executing against some really good teams. Pittsburghs pass rush could not even get a finger on Brady. Noone had any problem with the offensive line that game or game 2 vs the Jets. Jets beat us with outstanding coverage which led to noone open and Brady getting sacked 5 times. I still think the tight ends weren't utilized effectively.

Alas the loss does show the flaws in our team. It's just such a small sample against one team that is basically built to beat us. Big DT's vs our center. Our Wr's being out physicalled by their CB's. Bottom line, you are right, it just wasn't our day execution wise.
 
I want Vollmer, Mankins, and Koppen back. The left side of the line. I want a guy who will takeover for Koppen drafted this year but will redshirt the 2011 season. I think Kaczur will move to RG, and if he can take his tampon out should start 16 games there at a fairly high level. Never thought he had the feet for tackle, and was always soft when it came to dings and dents. The only thing I really want high is a right tackle.

This. I think Nate Solder at #17 (if he is still there) would be a good bet for RT. He needs to work on his blocking versus smaller DE's because of his height but Scar can teach that.

1A. Nate Solder (6-8/314, 35 Arms)
5th yr Senior, 2010 Team Captain…All Big-12 First Team in 2009 and 2010…All Big-12 Offensive Lineman of the Year…Finalist Outland Trophy…gave up 1 sack, 3 pressures in 847 snaps in 2010…gave up 5 sacks and 21 total pressures (14 Soph year) in 1400 passing snaps (1.8%) over career…Came out of HS as a TE but switched to OT Soph year and added 30lbs…athletic freak…8% body fat…4.88 40 time…32 inch vertical…power cleaned 415lbs (x3)…hang cleaned 473lbs (x3)… Could be Vollmer 2.0
 
I like Solder at 33, but no higher. He's been compared to Vollmer a lot. Vollmer was a late 2nd round pick, not mid 1st. I think Solder is too raw to be a left tackle early, and right tackles aren't worth the 17th overall pick.
 
In all the re-drafts, it was agreed that Vollmer was worth a mid first. We got a great bargain at 58.

I like Solder at 33, but no higher. He's been compared to Vollmer a lot. Vollmer was a late 2nd round pick, not mid 1st. I think Solder is too raw to be a left tackle early, and right tackles aren't worth the 17th overall pick.
 
In all the re-drafts, it was agreed that Vollmer was worth a mid first. We got a great bargain at 58.

Yeah, but that was pretty much best case scenario. Vollmer could've easily busted. I'm sure Scarnecchia had a lot to do with making him a legit starter so quickly. I think Solder will go higher just because he's got more coverage and will be at the combine, but I just can't see him being worth the 17th pick unless he's an instant NFL left tackle, and I don't think he is.
 
Dabruinz, whos your favorite prospects for us to take in first and 2nd round

BBell - I don't have a favorite yet. Nor will I before the end of March, more than likely. Mainly because I don't see the overall talent level in this draft as extremely high, but that there is a lot more above average talent..
 
We have our choice of OT's at 17. At 33, we might have whichever of the top that others passed on. The issue will be value, which will be partically based on how much dante wants an OT.

I like Solder at 33, but no higher. He's been compared to Vollmer a lot. Vollmer was a late 2nd round pick, not mid 1st. I think Solder is too raw to be a left tackle early, and right tackles aren't worth the 17th overall pick.
 
We have our choice of OT's at 17. At 33, we might have whichever of the top that others passed on. The issue will be value, which will be partically based on how much dante wants an OT.

We can still get a pretty good Tackle at 33 if that's the goal. It all depends on how the draft falls and what value is on the board.
 
Plenty of OL available, no need to get desperate and reach at 17...solder is kind of ungainly anyway.

Danny watkins in the 3rd could step in day 1 anyway for example.
 
Danny Watkins seems to be getting a lot of attention lately. He's already 26, but he also hasn't been playing football long so there's still some potential. Could be a nice upgrade at guard. I'm interested to see how he does at the Senior Bowl. Early impressions are favourable.
 
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Plenty of OL available, no need to get desperate and reach at 17...solder is kind of ungainly anyway.

Danny watkins in the 3rd could step in day 1 anyway for example.

Exactly. Watkins is a good player who is going to fall in the draft because of his age (he'll turn 27 in November of his rookie year). I think he's a late-2nd round pick who could start immediately and give you at least 6 or so solid years on the line.
 
Exactly. Watkins is a good player who is going to fall in the draft because of his age (he'll turn 27 in November of his rookie year). I think he's a late-2nd round pick who could start immediately and give you at least 6 or so solid years on the line.

Watkins will probably be able to be had in the 3rd round. He reminds me of another guy the Pats picked a few years ago, age wise. A guy by the name of Nick Kaczur. Exvept that Watkins will be good at the Guard position.
 
Nate Solder looked good in Senior Bowl practices and continues to improve from when I saw him earlier in the season, he certainly looks like a value at #17, however I won't be surprised to see him going higher. The one thing which jumped out watching practices was Mayock talking about Solder showing excellent technique, always a key word for a top round Scarnecchia candidate.

Danny Watkins, Clint Boling, Jason Pinkston, James Carpenter, and Kevin Kowalski continue to give me positive impressions after watching this weeks practices.
 
Am I the only one that thinks that Nate Solder is overrated. He has all the potential in the world but he is still very raw, and needs a lot of work to be an OT in the NFL. I think if this year wasn't so weak in top OL talent that he would be a 2nd round pick. He is all potential and no production, and thats not enough for me to consider using a mid 1st round pick on him.

I think we will re-sign Matt Light this year to at least a two year deal, so I think we can afford to wait for a stronger OT class. There just aren't any blue chip OT's in this draft that I think could come in and upgrade Light from day 1, so I dont see a need to rush finding his replacement. I'd much rather draft a mid to late round developmental guy, and look at a top OT next year when there should be more elite level talent.

In terms of interior O-Lineman. I like the talent and value available in the 3rd and 4th rounds. My two favorite OG candidates are Clint Boiling from Georgia and James Carpenter from Alabama. Both seem like good solid football players, and guys that fit the Patriot mold. Both are seniors, who have good experience playing LT for big SEC schools.

The guy I like at Center is Rodney Hudson from Florida State. I believe he is the most talented interior OL in this draft but his stock is falling because of his size. I think he will be available in the 3rd round, and if we can let him sit behind Koppen for a year and let Dante bulk him up properly, I dont think size will be an issue. He will be a steal for whoever chooses him.
 
Am I the only one that thinks that Nate Solder is overrated. He has all the potential in the world but he is still very raw, and needs a lot of work to be an OT in the NFL. I think if this year wasn't so weak in top OL talent that he would be a 2nd round pick. He is all potential and no production, and thats not enough for me to consider using a mid 1st round pick on him.

I think we will re-sign Matt Light this year to at least a two year deal, so I think we can afford to wait for a stronger OT class. There just aren't any blue chip OT's in this draft that I think could come in and upgrade Light from day 1, so I dont see a need to rush finding his replacement. I'd much rather draft a mid to late round developmental guy, and look at a top OT next year when there should be more elite level talent.

In terms of interior O-Lineman. I like the talent and value available in the 3rd and 4th rounds. My two favorite OG candidates are Clint Boiling from Georgia and James Carpenter from Alabama. Both seem like good solid football players, and guys that fit the Patriot mold. Both are seniors, who have good experience playing LT for big SEC schools.

The guy I like at Center is Rodney Hudson from Florida State. I believe he is the most talented interior OL in this draft but his stock is falling because of his size. I think he will be available in the 3rd round, and if we can let him sit behind Koppen for a year and let Dante bulk him up properly, I dont think size will be an issue. He will be a steal for whoever chooses him.

I don't know about "overrated", but I do have some concerns about Solder and he wouldn't necessarily be my first choice among this draft's top OTs.

But I also don't see this class as being particularly weak. There may be stronger classes coming along in the future, but there's also no guarantee that we'd be able to snag the cream of THOSE crops. And the guys who fall to us then might not be nearly as good as the guys we have a shot at in this class, at least a couple of whom seem to me to have at least as much potential as Vollmer.

I'm also concerned that, by waiting, we could end up in a situation in 2011 in which Kaczur doesn't come back as strong as he was, Light goes out with an injury for an extended period, and we end up with either LeVoir or Ojinnaka starting at tackle. I'd rather we take an "8" now than risk this scenario in order to wait for a "10" who may never arrive.
 
Our OL is not the problem on this team. The problem is that if the OL doesn't dominate on any given night, and Brady has an off (for him) game, the team struggles. That's because our defense is incapable of winning games.

Our premiere pass rusher had a whopping 5 sacks and 1 FF (that being with not time left in a meaningless game) - all while being a liability against the run.

Our "pro bowl" safety had more penalties called on him than he had passes defended because he is more concerned with head-hunting than playing the ball.

Our best DL had to be moved around every single game to cover up for deficiencies.

Our best run stuffing LB is a huge liability against the pass.

Our best coverage LB is a major liability against the run and screens.

Our starting CB was benched after being lit up for 2 straight games to start the season.

Our starting CB who replaced him had to play pass-rushing DE for a half against the Colts because BB thought he was an upgrade from our previous 3rd down pass rush specialist - Shawn Crable.

So I say - use the top 45 picks to get some playmakers on defense.
 
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So you say.

Try Vollmer, Wendell, Koppen, Connolly, Kaczur with Koppen gone at the end of 2011. Perhaps we will also pay Neal $3.3M for a 1/2 in 2011, perhaps not.

Do you still think that we don't have a major problem at OL.

We WILL use a top 33 pick on a front seven player. However, make no mistake, the OL is indeed an important issue.

Our OL is not the problem on this team.
 
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