Game Day Thread Official Pre Game Thread- Pats @ Dolphins

[TheRainMaker]

Offense better be ready as Flores is a guy who isn’t afraid of bringing the heat.

Mia shouldn’t be able to move the ball consistently.

 

[Mack Herron]

Lazar is wrong with his assertion.

Pats are 11th in passing plays over 20 yards. One less than the Chiefs and more than the Jills, Chargers, Colts and Titans

Pats are 9th in running plays over 20 yards. Colts are #1 but Pats are ahead of Titans, Bucs, Chiefs, Bengals, Chargers and Rams.

He is referring to only passing but you are right the stats don’t support his assertion. I am surprised because neither Agholor nor Smith has been the deep threat I had imagined they would be.

 

[PScottman]

I am surprised because neither Agholor nor Smith has been the deep threat I had imagined they would be.

Is it the factor of long ball in flight travel (aka vertical pass plays) or "speed" of the WRs (did you see Hill just break that 5 yard in cut into a TD) that you think causes your surprise? Or some other aspect?

One of the things Patriots fans tend to gloss over is that fundamental execution can be just as important to "explosiveness" as raw talent. Raw talent is obviously necessary, but on the wide spectrum of that talent (player A is faster, player B is stronger, player C is quicker....) adding in execution across the entirety of that talent pool (for example good downfield blocking) can result in explosive plays just like simply "outrunning that other guy".

I'm not surprised because historically that's what the Patriots teams have done. They've executed well even when they didn't have the MOST talented (of the talented) at every position.

 

[Mack Herron]

Is it the factor of long ball in flight travel (aka vertical pass plays) or "speed" of the WRs (did you see Hill just break that 5 yard in cut into a TD) that you think causes your surprise? Or some other aspect?

One of the things Patriots fans tend to gloss over is that fundamental execution can be just as important to "explosiveness" as raw talent. Raw talent is obviously necessary, but on the wide spectrum of that talent (player A is faster, player B is stronger, player C is quicker....) adding in execution across the entirety of that talent pool (for example good downfield blocking) can result in explosive plays just like simply "outrunning that other guy".

I'm not surprised because historically that's what the Patriots teams have done. They've executed well even when they didn't have the MOST talented (of the talented) at every position.

You have a point. I think we have no WR as talented as Diggs, and Mac lacks Allen’s arm so I think the Bills ought to have more big plays but they do not. We don’t have WRs you would describe as big playmakers but they do make plays. Let’s see if they can do it Sunday.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He is referring to only passing but you are right the stats don’t support his assertion. I am surprised because neither Agholor nor Smith has been the deep threat I had imagined they would be.

I've never thought of Agholor a deep threat really but more of an intermediate guy. He certainly had some long bombs in OAK last year but that seems to be an anomaly.

 

[Mack Herron]

I've never thought of Agholor a deep threat really but more of an intermediate guy. He certainly had some long bombs in OAK last year but that seems to be an anomaly.

Yup we bought high on both Agholor and Smith but my expectations were optimistic.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yup we bought high on both Agholor and Smith but my expectations were optimistic.

Agholor has speed but when I think of a deep threat I think of a player who consistently get behind a defense, creates separation and actually catches the ball.

Agholor did it somewhat consistently one year in OAK. Philly fans will tell you what I said above.

 

[Mack Herron]

Agholor has speed but when I think of a deep threat I think of a player who consistently get behind a defense, creates separation and actually catches the ball.

Agholor did it somewhat consistently one year in OAK. Philly fans will tell you what I said above.

Yeah he got behind the coverage in Philly but couldn’t catch the ball. His hands look fine to me but I’m not seeing the speed we know he has. Maybe he gets open and Mac doesn’t throw it.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Didn’t the titans have success on the ground against Miami last week without mega beast Henry?

seems to me that we have had success with that formula!

 

[gitgronked82]

Lazar is wrong with his assertion.

Pats are 11th in passing plays over 20 yards. One less than the Chiefs and more than the Jills, Chargers, Colts and Titans

Pats are 9th in running plays over 20 yards. Colts are #1 but Pats are ahead of Titans, Bucs, Chiefs, Bengals, Chargers and Rams.

He is referring to only passing but you are right the stats don’t support his assertion. I am surprised because neither Agholor nor Smith has been the deep threat I had imagined they would be.

Lazar explained today that the 20+ yard stat doesn’t really tell the story, because what he’s referring to is a real vertical element in the offense. And I don’t think he’s wrong. We get plenty of 20+ gains, but a lot of them may come on say a 15 yard dig and 7 yards of yac, a 17 yard over and 4 yards of yac, a screen pass, etc.
These are a different level of “explosiveness” in an offense, although they’re certainly effective. Apparently we’re much lower in rankings of 30+ yard gains, which are more likely to be more vertical routes.
I have the perception that Agholor does run deep routes and draw some coverage, but we really haven’t been able to hit verticals the way we previously had with cooks, gronk, hogan, maybe lafell a bit iirc, obviously moss.
I do think it’s a missing element, or at least one I’d like to improve upon next year. I think we expected more completed deep balls to Agholor. I still hope that comes next year. If teams feel the need to play a safety over the top and have him commit to bracketing Agholor, those intermediate routes to jakobi and Bourne look a whole lot easier.
Unfortunately, that dime to Wilkerson on Sunday was a great chance to hit a deep ball…

 

[jmt57]

The TV Maps are not up yet, but bad news for out-of-town fans. The NFL apparently cross-flexed some NFC games to CBS and AFC games to Fox. As a result the CBS late games are:

• Carolina at Tampa Bay - Jim Nantz, Tony Romo
• NJ Jets at Buffalo - Kevin Harlan, Trent Green
• NE Patriots at Miami - Spero Dedes, Jay Feely

Standard procedure is that the primary (Nantz/Romo) game will be beamed into most neutral markets. A Dedes/Feely game would typically only be broadcast in the television markets of the two teams playing that game (New England, south Florida).

 

[ctpatsfan77]

"Two players can be promoted to the active roster on game days. They then return to the practice squad unless the team offers a one-year deal. But teams can't activate a player more than twice; after the second time, they must decide whether to promote him to the active roster."

To clarify. Standard/COVID elevations automatically revert; it's in the CBA. To elevate a player beyond those, they actually must sign the player to the 53.

 

[Marko]

Another head scratcher from this coaching staff. More Harry on Sunday? Looking forward to him helping the team lose another game...

I would guess Agholar is back

 

[JMC00]

real vertical element in the offense

YAWN

 

[Mack Herron]

"Two players can be promoted to the active roster on game days. They then return to the practice squad unless the team offers a one-year deal. But teams can't activate a player more than twice; after the second time, they must decide whether to promote him to the active roster."

To clarify. Standard/COVID elevations automatically revert; it's in the CBA. To elevate a player beyond those, they actually must sign the player to the 53.

I think the elevation limits reset for the playoffs. But they have open slots right?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Lazar explained today that the 20+ yard stat doesn’t really tell the story, because what he’s referring to is a real vertical element in the offense. And I don’t think he’s wrong. We get plenty of 20+ gains, but a lot of them may come on say a 15 yard dig and 7 yards of yac, a 17 yard over and 4 yards of yac, a screen pass, etc.
These are a different level of “explosiveness” in an offense, although they’re certainly effective. Apparently we’re much lower in rankings of 30+ yard gains, which are more likely to be more vertical routes.
I have the perception that Agholor does run deep routes and draw some coverage, but we really haven’t been able to hit verticals the way we previously had with cooks, gronk, hogan, maybe lafell a bit iirc, obviously moss.
I do think it’s a missing element, or at least one I’d like to improve upon next year. I think we expected more completed deep balls to Agholor. I still hope that comes next year. If teams feel the need to play a safety over the top and have him commit to bracketing Agholor, those intermediate routes to jakobi and Bourne look a whole lot easier.
Unfortunately, that dime to Wilkerson on Sunday was a great chance to hit a deep ball…

You did a much better job of arguing the point than Lazar did.

I think explosive plays and vertical/deep threat are two different things.

I think we have a good number of explosive plays - enough to make defenses be mindful of but point taken on the lack of vertical -specific plays.

For example Wilk had one but couldn't haul it in.

 

[Mack Herron]

Lazar explained today that the 20+ yard stat doesn’t really tell the story, because what he’s referring to is a real vertical element in the offense. And I don’t think he’s wrong. We get plenty of 20+ gains, but a lot of them may come on say a 15 yard dig and 7 yards of yac, a 17 yard over and 4 yards of yac, a screen pass, etc.
These are a different level of “explosiveness” in an offense, although they’re certainly effective. Apparently we’re much lower in rankings of 30+ yard gains, which are more likely to be more vertical routes.
I have the perception that Agholor does run deep routes and draw some coverage, but we really haven’t been able to hit verticals the way we previously had with cooks, gronk, hogan, maybe lafell a bit iirc, obviously moss.
I do think it’s a missing element, or at least one I’d like to improve upon next year. I think we expected more completed deep balls to Agholor. I still hope that comes next year. If teams feel the need to play a safety over the top and have him commit to bracketing Agholor, those intermediate routes to jakobi and Bourne look a whole lot easier.
Unfortunately, that dime to Wilkerson on Sunday was a great chance to hit a deep ball…

Pats rank 13th at passes 40+ yards.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

 

[RobertWeathers]

Pats rank 13th at passes 40+ yards.

NFL.com | Official Site of the National Football League

The official source for NFL news, video highlights, fantasy football, game-day coverage, schedules, stats, scores and more.

www.nfl.com

Yep.

 

[ashley]

Getting everyone ready for Wednesday's activities...Good morning to all!!!!

 

[gitgronked82]

Interested to see if Damien is limited or out today. He has about 11 days to be REALLY ready to go. And yeah, even if he’s pretty healthy, I’d be ok with leaning on rham instead this week.