Game Day Thread Official Postgame Thread- Bills @ Pats

[h0c2000]

The Patriots in year 2 of the rebuild went 10-7 and made the playoffs.

The Seahawks are in year 2 of the rebuild (they were 12-4 in 2020 and 7-10 in 2021) and currently sit at 6-5, or just a half game better than the Patriots.

And Seattle is getting insane, never-ever-expected production out of Geno Smith of all people. He's having a career, magical, never-before seen year from him, at age 32. Nobody saw this coming, not even Pete Carroll.

We have no idea whether that will translate into continual building in year 3 (2023), or if Geno will turn back into the pumpkin that he's always been, which would likely mean them slipping back to 5-7 wins, or if they draft a new QB and start over.

I mean, Seattle is your best argument for a team that can rebuild in 2 years, but even this one is a MASSIVE stretch. And that's basically your only example, while I gave you a bunch showing you that 2-3 year rebuilds aren't even close to the norm.

You're losing this argument. Badly.

How are the Patriots doing in year 3 of the rebuild? Hint, no playoffs. No playoff victories.

What about year 4? Does anyone have confidence having a third person leading the offense for your 3rd year quarterback is going to turn out well?

 

[Patnation21]

Just look at the score prediction thread. Clearly most of the board was not expecting the bills to win.

Ya I find that puzzling. Quite a few people also had us winning 12 games this year. Like most fan pages, people always think their favorite team is a lot better than they really are.

 

[ivanvamp]

How are the Patriots doing in year 3 of the rebuild? Hint, no playoffs. No playoff victories.

They're 6-6 and essentially a half-game out of the playoffs with five to go. I'm happy to relay this information to you, but you could have looked it up yourself.

Also...do you think progress is always linear? Hint: It's not. Look at Buffalo.

2019: 10-6, lost in the WC round
2020: 13-3, lost in the AFCCG (next stop: SUPER BOWL, BABY!!!)
2021: 11-6, lost in the divisional round (OOPS!)

Nice step back in 2021 on their road to greatness.

I mean, this is how it normally works. The stock market when it climbs doesn't climb EVERY DAY. There's days or weeks when it drops, even in an overall upward trend. Humans grow in personal maturity not in a straight line; it's usually a couple of steps forward, one step back, three steps forward, two steps back, etc.

I mean, you get that this is how life is, right?

What about year 4? Does anyone have confidence having a third person leading the offense for your 3rd year quarterback is going to turn out well?

Year 4 is next year and we have no idea what the team will look like then. If you actually have a crystal ball and can see the future, please give me this week's lottery numbers.

 

[crawhammer]

Year 4 is next year and we have no idea what the team will look like then. If you actually have a crystal ball and can see the future, please give me this week's lottery numbers.

Patriots are playing the AFC West and NFC East next season. That's not going to be ideal.

 

[VrabelJr]

How are the Patriots doing in year 3 of the rebuild? Hint, no playoffs. No playoff victories.

What about year 4? Does anyone have confidence having a third person leading the offense for your 3rd year quarterback is going to turn out well?

We’re in year 1, maybe year 2, of the rebuild.

 

[h0c2000]

So far, I guess. But the fact they're penalizing Bill for finding Brady and playing a role in developing him and then capitalizing off of that development is still something I don't understand. They act like he played no role in Brady ultimately becoming who he turned out to be, and that's absolutely more than a little unfair.

For some reason this post has stuck in my head.

How large of a role did Bill have in finding Brady and why didn't he use his crystal ball/superior knowledge to pick him earlier? Kiper had Brady as a fifth rounder. Is Kiper smarter than Bill? Why did bill pick Dave Stachelski in the fifth round instead of Brady? What about Jeff Marriott? (Yeah, who?).

So what's the reward for finding Brady? years and years of mediocrity where you get to hire your unqualified kids and buddies? I guess so.

As far as development, Brady gets 90+% of that credit. Bill gets some of the remaining 10%.

 

[catent]

For some reason this post has stuck in my head.

How large of a role did Bill have in finding Brady and why didn't he use his crystal ball/superior knowledge to pick him earlier? Kiper had Brady as a fifth rounder. Is Kiper smarter than Bill? Why did bill pick Dave Stachelski in the fifth round instead of Brady? What about Jeff Marriott? (Yeah, who?).

So what's the reward for finding Brady? years and years of mediocrity where you get to hire your unqualified kids and buddies? I guess so.

As far as development, Brady gets 90+% of that credit. Bill gets some of the remaining 10%.

The reward for finding Brady was six Super Bowls and the mind-boggling level of sustained, consistent success the team experienced over approximately two decades.

I don't know what % of credit for Brady's development BB should get. There are different parts of a given player's development, at different points in their career. In some regards, I'm sure that number is higher than 10%. In other regards, Brady deserves all the credit. Just depends on the circumstances.

What I do know with certainty is that period of sustained, consistent success over two decades does achieve the heights it did without both Belichick and Brady, together. They're both individually very good at their respective jobs, but it took the two of them (and a lot of other really good players and coaches over the years) to achieve what they did.

 

[sb1]

BB very likely will end up being one of the all time great coaches who was able to win championships with just one guy. He's not the only one. Bill Walsh was only .425 as a coach without Montana. Don Shula had Dan Marino for years and never won a single title with him. That doesn't mean those guys are lousy head coaches and same for BB only winning with Brady.

That also doesn't mean that BB is the right coach for the Patriots in 2023 and beyond. I'm not so sure about that anymore.

 

[sb1]

Patriots are playing the AFC West and NFC East next season. That's not going to be ideal.

So is the rest of the division. Other than the Chiefs the AFCW is meh.

Patriots will likely be 3rd or 4th and that means they'll also get the Browns/Steelers, Jaguars/Texans and the 3rd or 4th place NFC South team at home. That's a decent schedule for a bounceback season IMO if the coaching situation and offensive line is fixed

 

[catent]

It's a little funny so many people are seriously discussing the prospect of firing Bill Belichick.

The team is 6-6 ... not 2-10. They've had, like, one losing season over the past two decades.

Harbaugh and Tomlin - both of whom are generally regarded as good coaches - routinely churn out middling, .500 seasons.

They have some real issues with coaching to sort through. They need fresh blood, fresh ideas, and some cultural changes.

But trust me, you don't want to fire Bill Belichick. The alternative isn't likely to be any better, and he won't be unemployed for long.

The only universe in which firing BB makes sense is if he completely refuses to turn-over any of the coaching staff and insists on status quo with zero flexibility/willingness to evolve.

 

[archstanton543]

It's a little funny so many people are seriously discussing the prospect of firing Bill Belichick.

The team is 6-6 ... not 2-10. They've had, like, one losing season over the past two decades.

Harbaugh and Tomlin - both of whom are generally regarded as good coaches - routinely churn out middling, .500 seasons.

They have some real issues with coaching to sort through. They need fresh blood, fresh ideas, and some cultural changes.

But trust me, you don't want to fire Bill Belichick. The alternative isn't likely to be any better, and he won't be unemployed for long.

The record may not be 2-10 but the regression from being a slightly above average offence to one of the worst offenses in the league (especially with a second year QB who played well the previous season) is enough to get any coach not named BB fired. Next year Mac very likely will be on his third offensive coordinator in as many season. This is something we used to make fun of the Bill and Jets about during the Brady Era.

BB has a very short shelf life. 2-3 years tops. Even if another team is willing to bring him in, he said he has no desire to start a rebuild from scratch.

 

[crawhammer]

So is the rest of the division. Other than the Chiefs the AFCW is meh.

Patriots will likely be 3rd or 4th and that means they'll also get the Browns/Steelers, Jaguars/Texans and the 3rd or 4th place NFC South team at home. That's a decent schedule for a bounceback season IMO if the coaching situation and offensive line is fixed

Browns and Steelers should be decent next season. Jaguars are an improving team... Trevor Lawrence has improved significantly from his rookie season. Agreed, Patriots have to fix the coaching situation and o-line. They also look vulnerable at the most important position, quarterback, so suddenly that's a major concern. Meaning, yes hire a bonafide OC and fix the o-line, but I'm not so sure that's going to vastly improve the quarterback play. Adding a bonafide WR1 would make a big difference. And the defense needs to figure out a way to be competitive with Josh Allen and the Bills offense. Oh and now Miami's offense is a handful. The schedule for next season looks pretty tough to me. This current Patriots team would be looking at another 9-8 or 8-9 season, which isn't good enough.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

The Chargers have Justin Herbert and they have the same record as the Patriots. Just sayin.

Packers have MVP Aaron Rodgers and 5-8 (3rd in their division)

Broncos traded the farm for Russel Wilson and are one of worst teams in entire league

Colts have Matt Ryan and are 4-8 with elite RB

Jaguars have Trevor Lawrence and are 4-8

Chargers are 6-6 with Herbert

Vegas is 5-7 with Derek Carr and Adams

Bears are 3-10 with Fields

Tampa is 6-6 with Brady and 3 elite WRs

Cardinals are 4-8 with Murray

Rams are 3-9 with Stafford and as defending champs


A quarterback doesn’t magically solve the issues with a team

 

[Scotty]

@JarOfMayo51 ....Good information, puts some issues into perspective !

 

[Rob0729]

BB very likely will end up being one of the all time great coaches who was able to win championships with just one guy. He's not the only one. Bill Walsh was only .425 as a coach without Montana. Don Shula had Dan Marino for years and never won a single title with him. That doesn't mean those guys are lousy head coaches and same for BB only winning with Brady.

That also doesn't mean that BB is the right coach for the Patriots in 2023 and beyond. I'm not so sure about that anymore.

I think you can count the number of head coaches who won Super Bowls with multiple QBs on one hand with a finger or two to spare. You got Gibbs. You Bill Walsh (who did it with two HOF QBs). I guess you can kinda say Parcells.