Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Chargers

[PScottman]

I'd still trade the Pats position with the Bucs though

Just this year...right?

That remains the difference - I do not believe the Patriots focus ONLY on the tactical (because "we're on to Cincinnati" is 100% a tactical approach). They also look broadly at the 1-3 year points and the 3-5 year points because the cap, player age, drafts, contracts, free agency, etc cant just be charted in the now (just the current year) without massive repercussions.

Sure looking at swapping with the Bucs this year may seem like a nice idea but 1) how much guaranteed are they to be more than one and done given the shellackings they've gotten against competent defenses? 2) what is their cap situation next year? 3) if they are one and done what happens to their draft position to be able to improve post-Brady (that's for our draftnik friends)? 4) how attractive are they going to be if they are one and done for free agents next year especially if the rumors of a toxic locker room are also even somewhat true (they hate their coach what????)?

 

[Ring 6]

To be fair, Slater's back was indeed facing his offensive EZ when he made his 2nd block, but he was also standing completely still as the defender began to chase Gunner, and it wasn't as if that guy had been running at full speed for 20 yards or anything, as in the Jennings block (which was Correctly called as per the new regs)...So there are similarities here but also enough differences to make this one a proper Non-call.

I think something people miss is that the expect the refs view was as complete and clear as the cameras.
To your point #2 I don’t really believe they are going to call the same block differently based upon the ferocity but I think, incorrectly especially where “safety” issues are concerned they don’t see the block but the player flying to the ground gets there attention and they throw it.
The long standing practice that you have to know you saw it to call it becoming a thing of the past.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Just this year...right?

That remains the difference - I do not believe the Patriots focus ONLY on the tactical (because "we're on to Cincinnati" is 100% a tactical approach). They also look broadly at the 1-3 year points and the 3-5 year points because the cap, player age, drafts, contracts, free agency, etc cant just be charted in the now (just the current year) without massive repercussions.

Sure looking at swapping with the Bucs this year may seem like a nice idea but 1) how much guaranteed are they to be more than one and done given the shellackings they've gotten against competent defenses? 2) what is their cap situation next year? 3) if they are one and done what happens to their draft position to be able to improve post-Brady (that's for our draftnik friends)? 4) how attractive are they going to be if they are one and done for free agents next year especially if the rumors of a toxic locker room are also even somewhat true (they hate their coach what????)?

I think the Bucs can still make a run. If they can put it together but that coaching staff. I think their season is a failure if they don’t win a playoff game. Total disaster. All that talent wasted on offense. Defense playoff soft coverage.

 

[PScottman]

All that talent wasted on offense.

Interesting. So it is more than just collecting talent that succeeds in the NFL? There are a few threads on this board that seem to disagree.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Interesting. So it is more than just collecting talent that succeeds in the NFL? There are a few threads on this board that seem to disagree.

Their offense should be better than what it has shown. I think it comes down to playcalling as well. There’s a lot of variables when it comes to success in the nfl. The Tampa bay coaching staff sucks. What do you think BB would do with the Bucs if he was HC?

 

[sb1]

I think the Bucs can still make a run. If they can put it together but that coaching staff. I think their season is a failure if they don’t win a playoff game. Total disaster. All that talent wasted on offense. Defense playoff soft coverage.

I actually think they have as good shot at coming out of the NFC as any other team. Seems like a piping hot take now but we'll see how it goes.

 

[sb1]

Just this year...right?

That remains the difference - I do not believe the Patriots focus ONLY on the tactical (because "we're on to Cincinnati" is 100% a tactical approach). They also look broadly at the 1-3 year points and the 3-5 year points because the cap, player age, drafts, contracts, free agency, etc cant just be charted in the now (just the current year) without massive repercussions.

Sure looking at swapping with the Bucs this year may seem like a nice idea but 1) how much guaranteed are they to be more than one and done given the shellackings they've gotten against competent defenses? 2) what is their cap situation next year? 3) if they are one and done what happens to their draft position to be able to improve post-Brady (that's for our draftnik friends)? 4) how attractive are they going to be if they are one and done for free agents next year especially if the rumors of a toxic locker room are also even somewhat true (they hate their coach what????)?

That's just fan speculation imo, I haven't heard anything about a locker room problem.

Yeah I was referring to this season. The Bucs are both in a much better position than we are to make it and also to go on a run.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

I actually think they have as good shot at coming out of the NFC as any other team. Seems like a piping hot take now but we'll see how it goes.

I do feel the NFC is wide open. I still feel the saints are capable of another choke.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not really. Slater's block is at the 9 second mark of the video and the key differences are
1) he is not making the block with his back to the endzone where the play is going; and
2) The block was involved arms rather than a big blast up, which shouldn't matter, but the more violent that the block LOOKS, the more likely the zebras are to throw the flag.

I am not saying that the call on Jennings was deserved (it wasn't), just that Slater's was not even close to a gray area.

To be fair, Slater's back was indeed facing his offensive EZ when he made his 2nd block, but he was also standing completely still as the defender began to chase Gunner, and it wasn't as if that guy had been running at full speed for 20 yards or anything, as in the Jennings block (which was Correctly called as per the new regs)...So there are similarities here but also enough differences to make this one a proper Non-call.

1) If you look at the 2nd block Slater throws (10 second mark), Slater DOES have his back to the endzone where the play is going.
2) Slater does make forcible contact with the Chargers Defender and, contrary to stone, the Chargers defender Slater hit came from the Pats 41 Yard line and was hit at the 47 where Slater was set and waiting for him. That's more than enough space for the Chargers defender to reach full speed.

By the RULE, the Refs could have called Slater for the blindside block.

 

[luuked]

I'd say the big difference between this years offense and last years offense, qb aside, is that the OL is playing really well.

Brady on this team would likely be much more prolific because of the running game....closer to 2018

I disagree. I think people are substantially underestimating how much of the better run game and run blocking is because Cam is on the field and the defenses have to consistently account for that. And that doesn't only come into play on option plays, wildcat plays, designated runs but also during normal power runs. McDaniels -- who is having one of his best seasons as a OC -- has schemed so many things up this year that would be impossible to do with Tom as a QB it is not even close.

All of this would look completely different with Brady as QB. We would be a lot less versatile as a running team, not have the advantageous blocking numbers and the same set of WRs that Brady could not do anything with a year ago. I don't think there is any argument to be made that we would be better off. You'd be exchanging the key to what makes our offense so efficient since week 8 for more success on short/intermediate throws.

The comparison with 2018 is especially questionable as our success on offense came from being able to run/pass out of the same personnel. Who would be the equivalent of Gronk/Dwayne Allen blocking in 2020 ?

 

[luuked]

What do you think BB would do with the Bucs if he was HC?

Hire a OC that actually knows what he is doing and doesn't just let the QB pick plays because he lacks balls. And then explain to Brady that they won't be using many deep shots and limit the frequency of outside the number throws anymore because the QB and his skill players -- as talented as they might be -- are not able to consistently pull them off.

Something even Arians could do if he actually had even a sliver of humility and adaptability that our coaching staff has demonstrated through the season. If something doesn't work, move the **** on. Self scouting is not complicated if you actually buy into the process.

 

[Nunchucks]

I disagree. I think people are substantially underestimating how much of the better run game and run blocking is because Cam is on the field and the defenses have to consistently account for that. And that doesn't only come into play on option plays, wildcat plays, designated runs but also during normal power runs. McDaniels -- who is having one of his best seasons as a OC -- has schemed so many things up this year that would be impossible to do with Tom as a QB it is not even close.

All of this would look completely different with Brady as QB. We would be a lot less versatile as a running team, not have the advantageous blocking numbers and the same set of WRs that Brady could not do anything with a year ago. I don't think there is any argument to be made that we would be better off. You'd be exchanging the key to what makes our offense so efficient since week 8 for more success on short/intermediate throws.

The comparison with 2018 is especially questionable as our success on offense came from being able to run/pass out of the same personnel. Who would be the equivalent of Gronk/Dwayne Allen blocking in 2020 ?

Shaq Mason was horrible most of last year. Patriots had no left tackle until Wynn returned and he was meh the right tackled sucked too. Bevermind the patriots bounced between 2nd and 3rd string center. I dont know how you can make that assertion.

As for passing out of a 2 TE set....the offense would be slightly different, but they would run the ball well and have a better passing game for sure.

 

[Ring 6]

To be fair, Slater's back was indeed facing his offensive EZ when he made his 2nd block, but he was also standing completely still as the defender began to chase Gunner, and it wasn't as if that guy had been running at full speed for 20 yards or anything, as in the Jennings block (which was Correctly called as per the new regs)...So there are similarities here but also enough differences to make this one a proper Non-call.

Jennings was standing still too and should not have been called. How fast you are running is not in the rule.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Come to think of it it's
Buccaneers with Brady 7-5
Pats with Cam 6-5

I'd still trade the Pats position with the Bucs though. They'll make the playoffs and it's not likely we will.

We probably won't make the playoffs but this season without a doubt shut ups the "belichick can't win without brady" side. 6-6 with this roster is impressive. what's even more impressive and is NOBODY has quit. they all still believe in the culture.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

1) If you look at the 2nd block Slater throws (10 second mark), Slater DOES have his back to the endzone where the play is going.
2) Slater does make forcible contact with the Chargers Defender and, contrary to stone, the Chargers defender Slater hit came from the Pats 41 Yard line and was hit at the 47 where Slater was set and waiting for him. That's more than enough space for the Chargers defender to reach full speed.

By the RULE, the Refs could have called Slater for the blindside block.

Oh Lord. On the 2nd block Slater is kind of standing in the guy's way, both guys with heads up, face to face, even locking arms, no forcible blow at all. If that is a foul, then all blocking is forbidden.

 

[sb1]

We probably won't make the playoffs but this season without a doubt shut ups the "belichick can't win without brady" side. 6-6 with this roster is impressive. what's even more impressive and is NOBODY has quit. they all still believe in the culture.

Nope they sure haven't quit. I think they'll finish 8-8 but they do have a reasonable shot at 9-7 preserving our winning season streak for the 20th straight season. If they can somehow run the table and get to the playoffs that would be incredible. Too bad Bill won't get COTY.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Nope they sure haven't quit. I think they'll finish 8-8 but they do have a reasonable shot at 9-7 preserving our winning season streak for the 20th straight season. If they can somehow run the table and get to the playoffs that would be incredible. Too bad Bill won't get COTY.

why hasn't bill won COTY more often?

 

[luuked]

Shaq Mason was horrible most of last year. Patriots had no left tackle until Wynn returned and he was meh the right tackled sucked too. Bevermind the patriots bounced between 2nd and 3rd string center. I dont know how you can make that assertion.

As for passing out of a 2 TE set....the offense would be slightly different, but they would run the ball well and have a better passing game for sure.

Because my point is about how people ignore how much new stuff Cam is enabling McDaniels to do in the run game. Which would not happen even if Brady had the 2020 OL last year. Thus the state of last year's OL is irrelevant to my point.

Again you would be exchanging some additional success in the short/intermediate passing game (but still a pretty one dimensional ground game overall) with one of the keys to our run game success and ability to be versatile this year.

 

[sb1]

why hasn't bill won COTY more often?

I think this year there are too many candidates: Flores, Tomlin, Stefanski... maybe even Rivera or Judge. Pats and Bill also took a step back without Brady, as they will not match their W-L from last year.

In general I think Brady has prevented Bill from winning more of these. Having the GOAT makes your job easier, or at least that's probably the perception.

 

[luuked]

why hasn't bill won COTY more often?

Because you are always competing vs. the field and odds are that 2-3 other teams in the league have a strong roster in any particular season -- maybe after a rebuild -- with a coach who has decent ideas how to use it. Who cares if those teams crash and burn a year later because a new set of shiny new faces will take their place with their respective teams.

Nagy in 2018 is the perfect example of that.