Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Chargers

[Nunchucks]

Because my point is about how people ignore how much new stuff Cam is enabling McDaniels to do in the run game. Which would not happen even if Brady had the 2020 OL last year. Thus the state of last year's OL is irrelevant to my point.

Again you would be exchanging some additional success in the short/intermediate passing game (but still a pretty one dimensional ground game overall) with one of the keys to our run game success and ability to be versatile this year.

In 2018 teams dared the patriots to throw and the patriots ran anyway. With the upgrade in the 2020 OL, the patriots would have similar success running the ball, especially with Harris and a FB. Brady would have much more time to throw the ball. We would see more White in the passing game and although the TE position would suck, the patriots could do some other things to make up for it.

I agree, Cam had brought something to the running game....but the passing game would be much better.

 

[luuked]

In 2018 teams dared the patriots to throw and the patriots ran anyway. With the upgrade in the 2020 OL, the patriots would have similar success running the ball, especially with Harris and a FB. Brady would have much more time to throw the ball. We would see more White in the passing game and although the TE position would suck, the patriots could do some other things to make up for it.

I agree, Cam had brought something to the running game....but the passing game would be much better.

I don't think any comparison to 2018 makes any sense. We didn't need to be multiple two years ago to be successful in the run game because we could hammer it home with pretty simple playcalls through flawless execution mixed with efficient play action. We had an actual FB in Develin and not the project that is Johnson and two TEs who were absurdly good blockers and who both were essential in the different phases of the run game.

None of this was available in 2019 and is also not right now. You are claiming the passing game would be better but I see no reason to assume that given how last year went. Why would Brady's connection with Harry and Meyers suddenly flip hot ? Edelman has missed most of this year, who would have been his safety blanket instead (i.e. White is not a 100% snap player as he only has limited value on 1st/2nd down most of the time) ? There would have been even less value to Byrd with Brady's inability to hit deep consistently.

Similarly, lets not even talk about the cap implications of Brady staying here and how this might have affected e.g. Thuney.

The roster as it is constructed on offense is just not in prime position to support Brady in what he is brilliant at. This is not a Cam/Brady debate but actually more a commentary on how this offense is constructed to support different types of QBs and benefit from their individual strengths.

 

[Nunchucks]

I don't think any comparison to 2018 makes any sense. We didn't need to be multiple two years ago to be successful in the run game because we could hammer it home with pretty simple playcalls through flawless execution mixed with efficient play action. We had an actual FB in Develin and not the project that is Johnson and two TEs who were absurdly good blockers and who both were essential in the different phases of the run game.

None of this was available in 2019 and is also not right now. You are claiming the passing game would be better but I see no reason to assume that given how last year went. Why would Brady's connection with Harry and Meyers suddenly flip hot ? Edelman has missed most of this year, who would have been his safety blanket instead (i.e. White is not a 100% snap player as he only has limited value on 1st/2nd down most of the time) ? There would have been even less value to Byrd with Brady's inability to hit deep consistently.

Similarly, lets not even talk about the cap implications of Brady staying here and how this might have affected e.g. Thuney.

The roster as it is constructed on offense is just not in prime position to support Brady in what he is brilliant at. This is not a Cam/Brady debate but actually more a commentary on how this offense is constructed to support different types of QBs and benefit from their individual strengths.

Brady is a better down the field passer than Cam by miles...I dont even understand how you can make the argument that Brady would not be much more successful in this offense than Cam...Cam has zero pocket awareness, he throws balls into the dirt, he had passes batted down. He is inaccurate, he sucks at reading the defense...you think what Cam brings to the running game can make up for even part of those deficiencies?

Brady would make it work with the weapons he has, like he has always done. Last year was the first time he couldn't, but the OL and running game was the worst I've seen in a long time, maybe ever.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh Lord. On the 2nd block Slater is kind of standing in the guy's way, both guys with heads up, face to face, even locking arms, no forcible blow at all. If that is a foul, then all blocking is forbidden.

Clearly you're choosing to make things up because that isn't remotely close to what happened. They didn't lock arms. Slater hit him and the guy ended up going off to Slater's right and slowing down realizing he was out of the play. SMH,.,.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Clearly you're choosing to make things up because that isn't remotely close to what happened. They didn't lock arms. Slater hit him and the guy ended up going off to Slater's right and slowing down realizing he was out of the play. SMH,.,.

As I see it, the block was legal for two reasons. The wording is that it is an illegal block "... if a player initiates a block in which he is moving towards or parallel to his own end line and makes forcible contact to his opponent with his helmet, forearm, or shoulder." But Slater did not use his helmet, forearm or shoulder (he used his extended hands) and he was not moving. (I agree that the call last week seems to have been a bad one.)

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Brady is a better down the field passer than Cam by miles...I dont even understand how you can make the argument that Brady would not be much more successful in this offense than Cam...Cam has zero pocket awareness, he throws balls into the dirt, he had passes batted down. He is inaccurate, he sucks at reading the defense...you think what Cam brings to the running game can make up for even part of those deficiencies?

Brady would make it work with the weapons he has, like he has always done. Last year was the first time he couldn't, but the OL and running game was the worst I've seen in a long time, maybe ever.

I agree. The discussion is about a QB that can not run versus a QB that can not pass. Not sure there is any way to conclude that debate. It would be nice if we had a QB that could run and could pass a bit. I do not think we need Wilson or Mahomes, maybe someone above average in both aspects instead of the GOAT passing QB, or the GOAT running QB?

 

[captain stone]

Interesting. So it is more than just collecting talent that succeeds in the NFL? There are a few threads on this board that seem to disagree.

You still need to be able to identify and collect talent well, and then teach them and develop them after they arrive...And we plainly haven't been good enough lately at the former; not by a damn sight.

 

[captain stone]

I do feel the NFC is wide open. I still feel the saints are capable of another choke.

Especially if Brees returns at QB.

 

[captain stone]

Jennings was standing still too and should not have been called. How fast you are running is not in the rule.

No he wasn't...Punt sequence begins at 5:08...

 

[Ring 6]

No he wasn't...Punt sequence begins at 5:08...

He was running toward the end zone and stopped. He never moved toward the back end zone.

 

[1960Pats]

We probably won't make the playoffs but this season without a doubt shut ups the "belichick can't win without brady" side. 6-6 with this roster is impressive. what's even more impressive and is NOBODY has quit. they all still believe in the culture.

12-4 with the same offense but more injuries disagrees.
Bill is clearly the GOAT, but this season proves that he needs players, just like any other HC.

 

[1960Pats]

He was running toward the end zone and stopped. He never moved toward the back end zone.

Correctomundo. It was a horrible call, even by the letter of the rule.

 

[sb1]

12-4 with the same offense but more injuries disagrees.
Bill is clearly the GOAT, but this season proves that he needs players, just like any other HC.

Last point was always true but to clarify that is 12-4 last year with a far superior defense for most of the season than this year's group - and a much easier schedule as well.

 

[Ring 6]

12-4 with the same offense but more injuries disagrees.
Bill is clearly the GOAT, but this season proves that he needs players, just like any other HC.

Im not sure anyone ever argued that coaches win without players or that players with without coaching, and other players.

 

[amfootball]

Brady is a better down the field passer than Cam by miles...I dont even understand how you can make the argument that Brady would not be much more successful in this offense than Cam...Cam has zero pocket awareness, he throws balls into the dirt, he had passes batted down. He is inaccurate, he sucks at reading the defense...you think what Cam brings to the running game can make up for even part of those deficiencies?

Brady would make it work with the weapons he has, like he has always done. Last year was the first time he couldn't, but the OL and running game was the worst I've seen in a long time, maybe ever.

Brady would be killing it with play action with our Oline and run game vs what we had last year. It would be 2018 all over and we would be contending for the chip.

 

[pazrul72]

why hasn't bill won COTY more often?

COTY is mostly about what team exceeded the expectations the most as that implies good coaching got the most of an untalented squad. For the past 13 years or so the Pats have been expected to be in, at least, the AFCCG and it’s really hard to exceed that. So while there were probably years he deserved it it went to the guy who had his one great year. It’s kind of like Brady with MVP’s, he rarely was the number one contender but he was on the list every year which to me is far more impressive then a guy like Rodgers who either won it or wasn’t even in the conversation. The consistency the Pats have shown for two decades is mind boggling.

 

[1960Pats]

Im not sure anyone ever argued that coaches win without players or that players with without coaching, and other players.

It was being argued in the post to which I responded and countless other posts, specifically about Belichick winning without Brady.

I don't consider 6-6 for this team, Bill's less than .500 record and no rings without a top QB "winning." Do you?

 

[sb1]

Brady would be killing it with play action with our Oline and run game vs what we had last year. It would be 2018 all over and we would be contending for the chip.

Unlikely.

This team is in no way better than the top teams in the AFC even with Brady. Defense is not even close to what it was in 2018 and schedule is much harder. Brady does bring a better passing game so most likely we do make it in as a WC but I can't see any way we win a playoff game.

 

[Nunchucks]

Unlikely.

This team is in no way better than the top teams in the AFC even with Brady. Defense is not even close to what it was in 2018 and schedule is much harder. Brady does bring a better passing game so most likely we do make it in as a WC but I can't see any way we win a playoff game.

But the OL is so much better this year and the patriots have a fullback.

 

[amfootball]

Unlikely.

This team is in no way better than the top teams in the AFC even with Brady. Defense is not even close to what it was in 2018 and schedule is much harder. Brady does bring a better passing game so most likely we do make it in as a WC but I can't see any way we win a playoff game.

The 2018 defense was not very good until late in the season especially the playoffs. That is exactly like this team which is starting to round into form right now. In fact the 2018 defense was 7th in points which is what this year's defense is but giving up way less yards (12 in 2020 vs 21 in 2018).