Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[50-yard-line]

I really don’t have any clue what the deal is with Jonnu. A guy with his athleticism and YAC ability tends to be the kind of guy that McDaniels can get really creative with. Unfortunately, he’s been the Harry of the TE’s grp. Maybe it’s my problem, but I expected so much action from our 2 TE’s this year, especially with a rookie QB and a strong running game. Thought we’d see a lot of 2 TE sets, and Jonnu lining up at receiver at times. Injury, having a hard time learning the offense? I just don’t know. You’re right though, barring any trade deals, we’re probably stuck with him for a while. Would love to see him and the staff figure it out.

At some point, it's on the OC. They didn't bring these guys in in a vacuum, and both Henry and Jonnu Smith were known commodities. Mybe they're just slowing down the game for Mac - I can't stress enough how bad rookie QBs often look. The athletic running ones mask a lot of it early on, but that's the trade off. Baltimore's Lamar looked like a dominant QB...until he's awful. Allen is one hit away from costing the Bills a massive investment for nothing.

Still, 3 games over 500 with 2 to play is way more than I expected with 23-25, whatever it is, new players and a rookie QB.
From everything we hear, all of them, the 2 TEs, Bourne, Agholor, Judon, Mills, Godchaux, have bought in.

 

[Bill Lee]

Mac Jones had a good rookie season. No one is saying he is terrible. Just that he is unlikely to be a top tier elite QB that will lead a team to the SB.

I'm in the camp that says Mac is just about what he was projected to be, Pennington/Carr, but also think he can lead a Patriots team to a SB. He just IMO won't be the kind that can carry a team to a SB. IMO that's fine, what we really want is a team with talent at every position, one good enough that a "game manager" caliber QB or better can bring them to a SB. Far better IMO to be that than the "flash in the pan" teams that fall apart in the playoffs.

As far as Allen goes, even in his rookie year you could get glimpses of his unique talents like his arm strength, elusiveness, running and mobility in the pocket. Same is true for Russell Wilson.
For an elite QB you will see glimpses even in a terrible rookie year.

On the other hand, guys like Jamarcus Russell gave glimpses and ended up being busts.

Baker Mayfield has been giving glimpses, seems to have lots of talent around him, but is not winning the big games.

Now CLE has the big decision to make: sign someone to a major contract who hasn't shown he can get it done, or let him walk?

Getting a 'feel good' win in the playoffs could make things worse, reference the Joe Flacco contract,

We have lots of glimpses from Lance, Lawrence, Tua, Fields, Hurts, etc.

Even Wilson scored yesterday.

Such a hard position to predict.

 

[captain stone]

We can still win the division too, if Atlanta or the Jete helps us out.

Yeah that’s the ticket…

 

[upstater1]

I am not sure they can pay or will pay jackson. Its just not the pats DNA, they always feel like they can get two guys to replace you. Its frustrating over the years but hard to argue with results.

CB is a position they have paid for. Revis. Gilmore. Remember, Gilmore in Buffalo was getting torched a lot. So BB saw something in him that projected well in New England. I'm sure he has a good idea of who Jackson is. But he also evaluated Malcolm Butler as just another guy. If he doesn't give Jackson the money, then I'd say it doesn't bode well for Jackson's career.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

At some point, it's on the OC. They didn't bring these guys in in a vacuum, and both Henry and Jonnu Smith were known commodities. Mybe they're just slowing down the game for Mac - I can't stress enough how bad rookie QBs often look. The athletic running ones mask a lot of it early on, but that's the trade off. Baltimore's Lamar looked like a dominant QB...until he's awful. Allen is one hit away from costing the Bills a massive investment for nothing.

Still, 3 games over 500 with 2 to play is way more than I expected with 23-25, whatever it is, new players and a rookie QB.
From everything we hear, all of them, the 2 TEs, Bourne, Agholor, Judon, Mills, Godchaux, have bought in.

OC has zero clue how to use 2 TEs. He just sticks in Jonnu with the old TE Allen role. It's like having a 3-shooting NBA coach who has no idea what to do with an all star center who needs post shots. The OC does not fit this roster.

.

 

[upstater1]

I think they probably have tried, but considering he has not really been put in games tells me he is not catching onto it.

Edelman was so thick and strong. Hard to get that body type in another player. Gunnar just seems very slim by comparison

 

[DropKickFlutie]

CB is a position they have paid for. Revis. Gilmore. Remember, Gilmore in Buffalo was getting torched a lot. So BB saw something in him that projected well in New England. I'm sure he has a good idea of who Jackson is. But he also evaluated Malcolm Butler as just another guy. If he doesn't give Jackson the money, then I'd say it doesn't bode well for Jackson's career.

Revis came cheap(er). So did Gilmore, good value for his contract it turned out. BB also let Asante go and the Pats secondary sucked for about 5 years after. So if JC Jackson leaves it won't mean he's not elite. Chandler Jones is a hall of fame player that we didn't keep either.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Exactly.

As crazy at it sounds i'm really stoked that when they get down, Mac brings them back within striking distance.

The larger issue is getting down (defense, Mac mistakes, etc) in the first place and not completing the comeback.

Mac and the offense need to start off well....this offense is not built to come from behind unless it's against Houston

 

[captain stone]

I agree. A #1 option doesn’t necessarily mean a deep threat like it does for many people. It just means a guy who’s excellent at what he does. Troy Brown would have been the #1 for many teams, as would Julian Edelman. We don’t have that right now. All of our WRs are NFL capable — even Harry…

Ya had me right until those last two words…

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mac and the offense need to start off well....this offense is not built to come from behind unless it's against Houston

Yea they don't have the firepower vs better teams.

 

[zipster9]

Ya had me right until those last two words…

Problem is BillB way over estimated (and way over paid) the productivity that Jonnu + Hunter + Nelson would bring to the team.

Needless to say Patriots need to address this in 2022.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady's arm is adequate. We're not talking Elway or Rodgers here...the point is the very best QBs in NFL history don't have to have strong arms.

Brady started out with an “adequate” arm, but he worked to become one of the strongest arms in the NFL.

Saying otherwise is flat out denial.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

We always had elite talent. Rob gronkowski, Julian Edelman, Wes welker, Randy moss etc.

Those are all guys who could get open all the time and teams had to gameplan for them. We don't have anyone of that caliber on our team.

Also I think that player has to come in the draft.

We should take the best Wr that no one seems to be talking about, David Bell. Not sure why he’s not getting the 1st round love that some of the others are getting but that could be good for us.

 

[Deus Irae]

train gunner for the role.

He's shown me nothing that would indicate he's a good fit for the role.

 

[captain stone]

And the award for the whiniest, most-entitled and spoiled fan base goes to...

Stopped reading after this… Pity, because I agree with your take on the officiating, which has gone beyond mere incompetence and into Criminal Conspiracy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady started out with an “adequate” arm, but he worked to become one of the strongest arms in the NFL.

Saying otherwise is flat out denial.

Calling it an "average" arm is really nebulous. It's almost never actually used to say that the arm really is average. It's almost always code for "below average, or worse". And Brady was never a weak-armed NFL QB.

 

[pats_premi]

..and Jonnu with only 21 snaps. Alleged playmaker...Jesus.

unfortunately Jonnu is a drive/momentum killing machine. Gets flagged and takes all the momentum away. The guy was so confident during the training camp, he gave the impression that his superior athletic skills can work in any offense. I guess it takes more than ability to play well in the NFL.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Calling it an "average" arm is really nebulous. It's almost never actually used to say that the arm really is average. It's almost always code for "below average, or worse". And Brady was never a weak-armed NFL QB.

Yeah he was never weak armed but certainly not what he became with the Pats and now. Looking back at old games, he put the velocity on it when needed. It was stronger than I remembered.

 

[Bill Lee]

So what's your plan?

Ok, since I like the theater of the absurd, what are the options?

Clearly the biggest assets the team has is Mac and draft picks. Tankathon says we're #22 in the 2022 draft. Chances are we won't move much up or down from that spot. New England Patriots Future Draft Pick Status shows we have pretty much all our picks in rounds 1-4 going forward.

A recent benchmark shows SF had to give up #12, the next year's first and third, and the following year's first to move up from twelve to three.

Seems we'd have to toss Mac into the pot along with three first round picks to move up from #22 to a top-three draft slot, no?

Not really worth it for anyone coming out this year, so maybe you wait another year, but still you are taking a rookie who may or may not develop into a Mac level QB never mind a MVP level QB and trading away huge amounts of assets to do so.

So, what about trades? Anyone up for giving away Mac and a haul to get an aging Aaron Rodgers? Not me. Russell Wilson? Nope. Trying to outbid MIA for Deshawn Watson and hope his days of creeping on massage therapists are over? Nope.

Seems the only viable plan is to keep developing Mac and the rest of the team along with him, unless someone comes out of nowhere and offers an amazing haul for him. Even then, you are back to square one and developing a rookie QB or trying to make someone else's castoff work (or in the case of Stidham, our own castoff). I just don't see that making any sense at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Problem is BillB way over estimated (and way over paid) the productivity that Jonnu + Hunter + Nelson would bring to the team.

Needless to say Patriots need to address this in 2022.

Mike Vrabel let Jonnu go, after Smith had multiple season where he did not reach the levels that people around here thought he would reach this year. That should have been something to give BB pause.


Well, it's too late now. Hopefully things with Smith will improve going forward.