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Offense - Our NEEDS Are Few


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mgteich

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We all want some upgrades, but our needs are few. We need an OT, OG, and a couple of running backs. Obviously Mankins and Light are the key, as well as which free agent RB's and WR's we pick up in free agency, if there is one.

OFFENSE
QB - 2 Brady, Hoyer
RB - 5 Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Clayton, Kettani, White
FB - 0
C - 2 Koppen, Wendell
G - 3 Neal, Ohrnberger, Connolly
OT - 4 Kaczur, Vollmer, Levoir, Maneri
WR - 6 Welker, Branch, Edelman, Tate, Price, Slater
TE - 3 Crumpler, Gronkowski, Hernandez
 
We all want some upgrades, but our needs are few. We need an OT, OG, and a couple of running backs. Obviously Mankins and Light are the key, as well as which free agent RB's and WR's we pick up in free agency, if there is one.

OFFENSE
QB - 2 Brady, Hoyer
RB - 5 Green-Ellis, Woodhead, Clayton, Kettani, White
FB - 0
C - 2 Koppen, Wendell
G - 3 Neal, Ohrnberger, Connolly
OT - 4 Kaczur, Vollmer, Levoir, Maneri
WR - 6 Welker, Branch, Edelman, Tate, Price, Slater
TE - 3 Crumpler, Gronkowski, Hernandez

Kettani = 5'11", 235.

That sounds like a FB to me. :)
 
I agree, we basically need to improve our offensive line. A lot. Even without new RBs we should be OK if we have a monster O Line.
 
Depends on how you're using the word "need", I guess.
 
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If Crumpler doesn't retire suddenly then TE is set

RB needs some major upgrading...Faulk MAY come back and even if he does how will he be at his age and a year off?...Is BJGE going to have another great season and will teams figure how to slow down Woodhead?

We need a bruising Fullback to move the chains on 3rd down and a RB who can share duties with BJGE....Taylor is GONE and Morris could be.

WR needs a down the field burner

OL could be under construction

Lots to do on offense IMO
 
The only real "need" on offense is bodies at RB and replacing any losses on the OL. Other than that, it's the same offense that led the NFL in scoring last year.
 
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Depends on how you're using the word "need", I guess.

Bingo.To me all our top draft picks are needed:

OC(need to upgrade),OG(need to upgrade),RB(need playmaker) and that is assuming we got Light signed if not add OT to that list ohh and Mankins signed as well. And deep threat aka WR needed but that is more of a FA thing.So I'd say more then a few needs. Unless you dont want to upgrade then yes just few needs.
 
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The only real "need" on offense is bodies at RB and replacing any losses on the OL. Other than that, it's the same offense that led the NFL in scoring last year.

Season before last, the Patriots were top 5 in scoring defense. I guess they didn't need to upgrade there, either, especially since all the changes resulted in a lower ranked scoring defense and more points allowed.

Bring back Derrick Burgess!
 
Season before last, the Patriots were top 5 in scoring defense. I guess they didn't need to upgrade there, either, especially since all the changes resulted in a lower ranked scoring defense and more points allowed.

Bring back Derrick Burgess!

You're comparing a defense that underachieved in big games and shut down poor offenses and somehow ended up #5 in scoring defense to an offense that was deemed unstoppable for the final 8 weeks and then lost a playoff game more because of execution than personnel.

I'd say that the 2010 offense ranks higher all-time than the 2009 defense ranked among the teams that season. There's literally no comparison.
 
You're comparing a defense that underachieved in big games and shut down poor offenses and somehow ended up #5 in scoring defense to an offense that was deemed unstoppable for the final 8 weeks and then lost a playoff game more because of execution than personnel.

I'd say that the 2010 offense ranks higher all-time than the 2009 defense ranked among the teams that season. There's literally no comparison.

No, I'm exposing the poor reasoning in your attempt to defend the offensive personnel by noting their scoring ranking. It was a poor argument, easily refuted by pointing to the same team's defense just a year before.

The reality is that the Patriots lost 3 games this past season. All 3 were against Ryan defenses, and they scored 14,14 and 21 in those games. The Patriots need to adjust the offensive personnel and scheme to overcome that problem. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but it's not going to change the reality of the situation.
 
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The reality is that the Patriots lost 3 games this past season. All 3 were against Ryan defenses, and they scored 14,14 and 21 in those games. The Patriots need to adjust the offensive personnel and scheme to overcome that problem. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but it's not going to change the reality of the situation.

What exactly is the problem? I don't mean "we don't score enough", I mean why is it you think the Pats can't score enough and what is your solution?

EDIT: To put it differently, why is that you think the Pats, a top ten scoring offense of all time, weren't able to put up enough points against the Jets and the Browns? Is it a schematic issue, a personnel issue, or something else, and how would you realistically fix it?
 
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I could see them bumping Slater and replacing his ST spot with bottom of the roster depth at another position and adding a bigger, more physical WR to the roster.

Then add a RB through the draft and another through FA.

And drafting two interior lineman, maybe more pending the whole Mankins/Light situations.
 
What exactly is the problem? I don't mean "we don't score enough", I mean why is it you think the Pats can't score enough and what is your solution?

EDIT: To put it differently, why is that you think the Pats, a top ten scoring offense of all time, weren't able to put up enough points against the Jets and the Browns? Is it a schematic issue, a personnel issue, or something else, and how would you realistically fix it?

It's both personnel and scheme. The Patriots are 2-4 in the last 6 contests against a Ryan defense, and there's more to that than just personnel, since the Browns are certainly not the Jets. However, it's clear that the scheme is having the impact it is because of the Patriots problems at WR.

2009 v. Jets, first game: Welker is out, Galloway and Edelman are starting. Result is a loss.

2009 v. Jets, second game: Welker is back and has 15 catches. Result is a win

2010 v. Jets, first game: Welker is trying to come back from the ACL, the TEs are still learning the game, and it's essentially Brady-Hernandez/Moss or bust, because the timing is off with Brady and everyone else. A key here would be that Cromartie has been added to the Jets, and is able to limit Moss in the absence of Revis. Result is a loss.

2010 v. Browns: Browns are able to get up on the Patriots early, to force the rookie TE into a big fumble inside the 5, and to limit Brady by flooding the coverages. Result is a loss.

2010 v. Jets, second game: Patriots get up early, take advantage of horrible miscues by the Jets, and it becomes a quicksand game and a blowout. Brady goes 21 for 29, and the result is a win.

2010 v. Jets, third game: Patriots make 2 huge mistakes early (3 if you count the play call on the screen pass), which allows the Jets to weather the early storm and gain confidence. From that point forward, the Jets were able to use their cornerbacks to shut down the Patriots wideouts and allow the rest of the defense to flood the middle zones. Result is a loss.

When the Patriots can get up on the Ryan defenses early, they can rip them apart, because it forces those defenses to try both adapting the defense and becoming a scoring threat in order to win despite their poor offenses, and they don't have the ability to do it. However, if the Patriots can't get those defenses on their heels early, it allows them to use personnel against a mediocre Patriots wideout corps, and that gives the advantage to teams with 2 corners that can cover.

What made the 2007 team so good was that there was nothing defenses could really do to stop the receivers. If you defended Moss and Welker, Stallworth and Gaffney could find ways to kill you. The Giants won by practically ignoring the receivers and focusing on pressuring a hobbled Brady.

In 2009, it was up to Aiken, and in 2010, it was up to Tate until Moss was traded, when it became even easier to defend the outside players with top corners. Neither Aiken nor Tate were able to step up, and Branch is not the answer as the WR1.
 
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The reality is that the Patriots lost 3 games this past season. All 3 were against Ryan defenses, and they scored 14,14 and 21 in those games. The Patriots need to adjust the offensive personnel and scheme to overcome that problem. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but it's not going to change the reality of the situation.

Since there's no chance we could upgrade the QB position, you have to ask the question of how much improvement you get by upgrading some of the other positions, like RB, OL, or WR. Surely there is some room for upgrade, but how much will you gain? You cannot guarantee yourself an offense that is going to score more than 21 points every single game.

The other side of this argument that you point out is that the Patriots did not win a single game in which their offense scored less than 23 points. So perhaps it would be more prudent to invest resources in upgrading the defense and give yourself a multi-dimensional team which is capable of winning low scoring games as well as high scoring ones.
 
Since there's no chance we could upgrade the QB position, you have to ask the question of how much improvement you get by upgrading some of the other positions, like RB, OL, or WR. Surely there is some room for upgrade, but how much will you gain? You cannot guarantee yourself an offense that is going to score more than 21 points every single game.

You can't guarantee anything. Using that argument, why bother fixing any problems?

And there is room for significant upgrades at both RB and WR, as well as a desperate need for a starting quality offensive guard. It would be stupid of the team to ignore the weaknesses at those positions.


The other side of this argument that you point out is that the Patriots did not win a single game in which their offense scored less than 23 points. So perhaps it would be more prudent to invest resources in upgrading the defense and give yourself a multi-dimensional team which is capable of winning low scoring games as well as high scoring ones.

They've got 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. Assuming health:

D-line: T. Warren, V. Wilfork

ILB: Mayo, Spikes/Guyton

OLB: Cunningham

CB: McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler, Wilhite

S: Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, Page


That means that the only 2011 defensive "needs" are a DE and an OLB. Surely the team doesn't need to devote all 6 top picks on those two positions. The odd reality of this team is that, because of players returning from injury, even though the defense is nowhere near as good as the offense, it's the offense that has more areas of immediate need.
 
The reality is that the Patriots lost 3 games this past season. All 3 were against Ryan defenses, and they scored 14,14 and 21 in those games. The Patriots need to adjust the offensive personnel and scheme to overcome that problem. You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but it's not going to change the reality of the situation.

I don't buy this logic.

14,14,21 point against the teams the pats scored them against should have been sufficient had the defense done its job.

the opposing starting QB's were sanchez and mccoy.......how did their ratings in those 3 games compare with what they were for the season? against the pats, in those 3 games, sanchez and mccoy's combined ratings were over 100 with zero turnovers. how did the opposing running games do in those games. I can tell you that it wasn't pretty.

it goes back to the adage that offenses win games and defenses win championships.

what it all really boils down to is that the front 7 of the pats defense is pretty inept at applying pressure on a QB, so you really can't expect to force teh QB into errors. couple that with the fact that when teams really want to run against the pats defense, they can

the one glaring issue in all 3 games was that the pats defense could not make a play to help turn the game around before it was too late.
 
When the Patriots can get up on the Ryan defenses early

you can say that about any defense

again....the offense was good enough to win it all

the defense was not
 
You can't guarantee anything. Using that argument, why bother fixing any problems?

And there is room for significant upgrades at both RB and WR, as well as a desperate need for a starting quality offensive guard. It would be stupid of the team to ignore the weaknesses at those positions.




They've got 6 picks in the first 3 rounds. Assuming health:

D-line: T. Warren, V. Wilfork

ILB: Mayo, Spikes/Guyton

OLB: Cunningham

CB: McCourty, Bodden, Arrington, Butler, Wilhite

S: Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, Page


That means that the only 2011 defensive "needs" are a DE and an OLB. Surely the team doesn't need to devote all 6 top picks on those two positions. The odd reality of this team is that, because of players returning from injury, even though the defense is nowhere near as good as the offense, it's the offense that has more areas of immediate need.

cunningham did little to prove he was 'the answer' at one of the OLB spots. a solid player, but he has not earned one of the 2 starting jobs yet, except for default maybe

assuming the health of and the return of ty warren to previous form is a big assumption and does not do that much to address the pats need to apply pressure on opposing QB's

beyond that, there is poor depth at DE and OLB.
 
I don't buy this logic.

14,14,21 point against the teams the pats scored them against should have been sufficient had the defense done its job.

Absolutely incorrect. The Steelers were #1 in the NFL in scoring defense this season. The #1 scoring defense in the NFL surrendered 14.5 ppg. So, no team should expect to win a football game if they only score 14 points.

the opposing starting QB's were sanchez and mccoy.......how did their ratings in those 3 games compare with what they were for the season? against the pats, in those 3 games, sanchez and mccoy's combined ratings were over 100 with zero turnovers. how did the opposing running games do in those games. I can tell you that it wasn't pretty.

Yes... when the Patriots offense can't get up on opponents, the defense gets exposed. This is not news.

it goes back to the adage that offenses win games and defenses win championships.


Given that last few Super Bowl winners and runner ups, this old saying obviously no longer holds true.

what it all really boils down to is that the front 7 of the pats defense is pretty inept at applying pressure on a QB, so you really can't expect to force teh QB into errors. couple that with the fact that when teams really want to run against the pats defense, they can

the one glaring issue in all 3 games was that the pats defense could not make a play to help turn the game around before it was too late.

No, the glaring issue in all 3 games is that the offense screwed the pooch.
 
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