O/T: Building the Patriots All Time 53 Man roster

[Bruins29]

I'd take Adam V over Gost

Gost was clearly better

 

[TheRainMaker]

I'll take Ty Law.

Law didn't have the speed. Haynes was an incredible athlete.

Although Ty Law was my favorite CB growing up, he got roasted repeatedly by WR's in the AFCE alone in the late 90's-early 2000's. 2003 was his best year.

I'd take Adam V over Gost

Adam really struggled pre BB. I was just watching games in the 1999 season and his missed kicks against KC and Buffalo could've put them at 10-6 at worst. Those missed kicks, among other things, got Carroll fired. He made up for it in 2001-2004.

Ghost had a very strong leg and racked up field goals, but he sure missed kicks at the weirdest times with 2015 AFCCG being the most remembered. Bill also didn't seem to trust him in big games such as the most brought up game in SB42.

 

[Bruins29]

@Boomer B you can disagree all you want. Gost was clearly better than AV in every metric. Its been proven over and over and in fact proven that Gost was just as clutch as AV. There was a huge thread about it years ago.

 

[p8ryts]

Law didn't have the speed. Haynes was an incredible athlete.

Speed isn't the only thing. Law was more instinctive, big time player, tough. I admit my memory of Haynes is falling on his keister in the 78 playoff for a 70+ yard TD, game over. I don't hold grudges but I have made an exception in his case.

 

[crawhammer]

This is from Patriots Wire. They pick their 53 man all time roster.

Building the Patriots’ all-time 53-man roster

Gostkowski over Vinatieri is dumb.

I understand Bledsoe makes this squad by default but does anyone else agree that Garoppolo is a better quarterback? Like if I'm naming a Patriots quarterback to win me one game then obviously Brady is #1, then Grogan #2, but then I'm pretty much going Garoppolo #3 over Bledsoe. Jim Plunkett over Bledsoe for the single game too. Hell, Cam in his prime over Bledsoe. Cassel?... nah, that's taking it too far.

 

[captain stone]

Mankin$ on Any all-time list is a ****ing Disgrace.

 

[Bruins29]

@Boomer B Of course you don’t agree. You can’t understand how numbers work

 

[crawhammer]

@Boomer B Of course you don’t agree. You can’t understand how numbers work

Gost didn't have the sac to kick a 45-yard FG in a driving blizzard. AV also put those SB winners straight through the center. Gost capped off the most frustrating Patriots season ever with a missed PAT in the 2015 AFCCG that ****ed us in the end. Missed another PAT in SB 51. Missed a PAT and a FG in SB 52. You'll notice a trend here.

AV > Gost

 

[TheRainMaker]

Gost capped off the most frustrating Patriots season ever with a missed PAT in the 2015 AFCCG that ****ed us in the end.

Bill not giving him a chance to kick field goals, but repeatedly going for it on 4th down lost them the game.

Missed another PAT in SB 51. Missed a PAT and a FG in SB 52. You'll notice a trend here.

AV missed two field goals in Super Bowl 38.

He missed game winners in 1999 with one of them late in the year with their season on the line.

He wasn’t the most popular kicker amongst Pats fans prior to Bill’s arrival because he struggled.

 

[Bruins29]

Gost didn't have the sac to kick a 45-yard FG in a driving blizzard. AV also put those SB winners straight through the center. Gost capped off the most frustrating Patriots season ever with a missed PAT in the 2015 AFCCG that ****ed us in the end. Missed another PAT in SB 51. Missed a PAT and a FG in SB 52. You'll notice a trend here.

AV > Gost

Brady threw the worst pick 6 of his career that Afccg game. That was 6 points I believe

Why doesn’t he get any blame for that ?

Your first comment is idiotic as it gets. Then again most of your tripe is

 

[crawhammer]

Brady threw the worst pick 6 of his career that Afccg game. That was 6 points I believe

Why doesn’t he get any blame for that ?

Your first comment is idiotic as it gets. Then again most of your tripe is

You shouldn't call someone an idiot after making an entirely incorrect statement yourself.

So firstly, Brady did not throw a pick 6 in the AFCCG. The supposed "worst pick 6 of his career." That never happened.

Brady did however complete a 40-yard pass to Gronk on 4th-10 and then a 4th down TD pass to Gronk with 10 seconds left in the game. Unfortunately they had to go for 2-points to tie the game because Gost was losing his nerve as early as the 1st quarter with a missed PAT.

Secondly, Brady didn't also kick, so the comparison was correctly AV vs Gost. Your fabricated pick 6 has nothing to do with it.

 

[Bruins29]

You shouldn't call someone an idiot after making an entirely incorrect statement yourself.

So firstly, Brady did not throw a pick 6 in the AFCCG. The supposed "worst pick 6 of his career." That never happened.

Brady did however complete a 40-yard pass to Gronk on 4th-10 and then a 4th down TD pass to Gronk with 10 seconds left in the game. Unfortunately they had to go for 2-points to tie the game because Gost was losing his nerve as early as the 1st quarter with a missed PAT.

Secondly, Brady didn't also kick, so the comparison was correctly AV vs Gost. Your fabricated pick 6 has nothing to do with it.

Gost was a better kicker. Sorry that your injection of AVs jizz (and Tommy’s too) has made you unable to understand stats

Maybe next time cup cake

 

[crawhammer]

Gost was a better kicker. Sorry that your injection of AVs jizz (and Tommy’s too) has made you unable to understand stats

Brother, you apparently don't know what a pick 6 is.

What stat(s) determines in your mind that Gost is better than AV? I love stats, please share.

And if you could only put one of them in the NFL HOF then who would it be?

 

[TheRainMaker]

What stat(s) determines in your mind that Gost is better than AV? I love stats, please share.

AV was nothing special with Parcells and during the Carroll years.

It took him 7 years to make a Pro Bowl or All Pro.

Gost made it both by his 3rd year.

AV has 3 first team All Pro’s to Gost’s 2, but Gost had a 2nd team All Pro.

Adam has 3 Pro Bowls to Gosts 4.

Gost is 5 time scoring champ to Adam’s one.

Adam prolonged his career by half the season in a controlled dome and the records that he holds were from was stat padding playing in the NFL way too long.

Brady did however complete a 40-yard pass to Gronk on 4th-10 and then a 4th down TD pass to Gronk with 10 seconds left in the game. Unfortunately they had to go for 2-points to tie the game because Gost was losing his nerve as early as the 1st quarter with a missed PAT.

I guess you didn’t see my other comment. The missed extra point was very early in the game. They had the entire game left. And as I mentioned before, the Brady-Gronk heroics become unnecessary had Bill given Gost a chance to kick fields rather than going for all those 4th downs.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Brother, you apparently don't know what a pick 6 is.

What stat(s) determines in your mind that Gost is better than AV? I love stats, please share.

And if you could only put one of them in the NFL HOF then who would it be?

I can help get him started:

Ghost vs Adam V
Ghost scored 617 more points
Ghost had 111 more successful field goals
Ghost had 286 more PATs
Ghost had 13 more postseason field goals
Ghost had 49 more PATs in postseason

Ghost FG % = 86.3%
AV FG % = 83.8%

Ghost XP % = 98.2%
AV XP % = 97.3% (keep in mind Adam played way longer in the era when field goals were at like the 13 yard line)

Ghost Kickoff Yards = 84,720
Adam V Kickoff Yards = 65,862

Ghost Touchbacks = 574 (43.2%)
Adam V Touchbacks = 88 (8.4% - I couldn't believe this, had to check it 2-3x)

Ghost KO Avg = 63.7
Adam V KO Avg = 62.8


So yea, Ghost is better than Adam V in every single measurable metric other than passing yards, because the Pats never attempted a trick play with Ghost and Adam V had 1 touchdown pass for 4 yards

Adam V just had opportunities to kick some iconic field goals that immortalized him (the Carolina SB, he actually missed his first 2 field goals before hitting the final one to win, so he was 1/3 in that SB.. not good)

If Ghost didn't suffer a hip injury that completed derailed his career, he would have continued to pile on top of his already absurd stats. He was clearly the better kicker, there really is no debate.


Stats from: Player Comparison: Adam Vinatieri vs. Stephen Gostkowski | Stathead.com

 

[Bruins29]

I called the VM Interception a pick 6 . Not sure why I did that. But it cost them the game. The interception put the Broncos at the Patriots 16 yd line. Then the Broncs scored.

It may have well been a pick 6. but that XP miss LMAO!!!

 

[Bruins29]

I can help get him started:

Ghost vs Adam V
Ghost scored 617 more points
Ghost had 111 more successful field goals
Ghost had 286 more PATs
Ghost had 13 more postseason field goals
Ghost had 49 more PATs in postseason

Ghost FG % = 86.3%
AV FG % = 83.8%

Ghost XP % = 98.2%
AV XP % = 97.3% (keep in mind Adam played way longer in the era when field goals were at like the 13 yard line)

Ghost Kickoff Yards = 84,720
Adam V Kickoff Yards = 65,862

Ghost Touchbacks = 574 (43.2%)
Adam V Touchbacks = 88 (8.4% - I couldn't believe this, had to check it 2-3x)

Ghost KO Avg = 63.7
Adam V KO Avg = 62.8


So yea, Ghost is better than Adam V in every single measurable metric other than passing yards, because the Pats never attempted a trick play with Ghost and Adam V had 1 touchdown pass for 4 yards

Adam V just had opportunities to kick some iconic field goals that immortalized him (the Carolina SB, he actually missed his first 2 field goals before hitting the final one to win, so he was 1/3 in that SB.. not good)

If Ghost didn't suffer a hip injury that completed derailed his career, he would have continued to pile on top of his already absurd stats. He was clearly the better kicker, there really is no debate.


Stats from: Player Comparison: Adam Vinatieri vs. Stephen Gostkowski | Stathead.com

Thanks for putting in the work Mayo. Not sure why anyone would take AV over SG when Gost was the superior kicker. This has been covered many times over the years. And I am a huge AV fan.

Its ok to live AV more or whatever. But this BS that AV was a better kicker makes this place look juvenile.

 

[Kasmir]

Adam really struggled pre BB. I was just watching games in the 1999 season and his missed kicks against KC and Buffalo could've put them at 10-6 at worst. Those missed kicks, among other things, got Carroll fired. He made up for it in 2001-2004.

Ghost had a very strong leg and racked up field goals, but he sure missed kicks at the weirdest times with 2015 AFCCG being the most remembered. Bill also didn't seem to trust him in big games such as the most brought up game in SB42.

Vinatieri also almost destroyed his own legend in the Super Bowl vs the Panthers where he missed two makeable FG's before hitting the game winner. If he had missed the latter he would have all but erased the 2001 magic.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Vinatieri also almost destroyed his own legend in the Super Bowl vs the Panthers where he missed two makeable FG's before hitting the game winner. If he had missed the latter he would have all but erased the 2001 magic.

Yep, I mentioned that in my prior post of him missing two field goals in that game.

Ghost Touchbacks = 574 (43.2%)
Adam V Touchbacks = 88 (8.4% - I couldn't believe this, had to check it 2-3x)

AV had a weak leg. Gost was automatic with the touchbacks neutralizing the opposing kick return team. AV also struggled with kicks going past 50 yards. He was 62% kicker to Gost 76%. That's a big difference.

I called the VM Interception a pick 6 . Not sure why I did that. But it cost them the game. The interception put the Broncos at the Patriots 16 yd line. Then the Broncs scored.

It may have well been a pick 6. but that XP miss LMAO!!!

It did not cost them the game. I don’t recall time expiring after that play. Brady threw a pick six a year later and was down 28-3 to the Falcons.

 

[crawhammer]

I can help get him started:

Ghost vs Adam V
Ghost scored 617 more points
Ghost had 111 more successful field goals
Ghost had 286 more PATs
Ghost had 13 more postseason field goals
Ghost had 49 more PATs in postseason

Ghost FG % = 86.3%
AV FG % = 83.8%

Ghost XP % = 98.2%
AV XP % = 97.3% (keep in mind Adam played way longer in the era when field goals were at like the 13 yard line)

Ghost Kickoff Yards = 84,720
Adam V Kickoff Yards = 65,862

Ghost Touchbacks = 574 (43.2%)
Adam V Touchbacks = 88 (8.4% - I couldn't believe this, had to check it 2-3x)

Ghost KO Avg = 63.7
Adam V KO Avg = 62.8


So yea, Ghost is better than Adam V in every single measurable metric other than passing yards, because the Pats never attempted a trick play with Ghost and Adam V had 1 touchdown pass for 4 yards

Adam V just had opportunities to kick some iconic field goals that immortalized him (the Carolina SB, he actually missed his first 2 field goals before hitting the final one to win, so he was 1/3 in that SB.. not good)

If Ghost didn't suffer a hip injury that completed derailed his career, he would have continued to pile on top of his already absurd stats. He was clearly the better kicker, there really is no debate.

Stats from: Player Comparison: Adam Vinatieri vs. Stephen Gostkowski | Stathead.com

Great post, love it! Very convincing that Gost was the better K. So I'll concede that BUT if I need one K for postseason game-winner then it's AV no question. And if I can only put one of them in the NFL HOF then it's also AV. Maybe I'm overvaluing it but that 45-yard FG in the snow bowl was ****ing amazing. To this day when I watch the replay I still can't believe he made that kick. It's looks impossible every time.