Now that he's signed, do we trade Welker?

[Off The Grid]

"do we trade Welker?"

fortunately as fans only, WE have no input on this decision.

Evidently, you haven't heard.

"We" refers to the team.

The team that "WE" root for.

The team that wouldn't exist ~ as would none of the other 31 ~ if it wasn't for "WE."

If you don't consider yourself part of "WE", feel free to leave.

You will not be missed.

 

[Off The Grid]

Well, he couldn't be traded until he did sign the tender, so nothing wrong with the timing. A trade couldn't even be discussed between teams because Welker wasn't under contract until he signed. We've been over this before many times.

It's weird. The Pats NEVER pay for what you have done, only for what you can do. Yet everyone here is so caught up in the Pat's-should-reward-players-for-their-PAST-efforts that they call people idiots and DBs for asking a legimate question.

Even if the answer is no, it is not doing due diligence not to consider the possibility.

Pats are unlikely to make any receiver, especially a slot receiver, the highest paid player on the team. Welker got $9.5 mil for playing this year. No way will a long term contract pay him $10 mil. Just ain't happening. So a trade is possible if they want to get anything before he leaves (assuming his $$$ demands don't come down).

Best guess IMO is that he plays the year under the franchise tag then moves on if he still want Fitzgerald money.

The question for a trade is: what will help the team more? One year of Welker or 5 years of a first round pick?

No one is an idiot or a DB for opining one way or the other on that question.

What the hell is everyone's problem with asking the question????????

Exactly!! :rocker:

There are certain clowns who haven't heard of the Salary Cap.

There are certain clowns who fail to grasp that hard decisions have to be made every year.

But ~ given all things ~ trading Welker ~ something I would NOT do ~ is a reasonable subject to bring up.

 

[Off The Grid]

I would LOVE to see the last of these vacuous "Welker is worth far more HERE than elsewhere" posts.

I suppose they're based on the simple-minded premise that ~ because Welker's stats went through the ROOF after his arrival, here, that his success must be a result of his collaboration with Brother Tom.

That premise is 100% MOOSE Chips.

For those who actually study The Game, it was clear ~ 5 years ago ~ that Wes Welker was a young Slot End whose Production and Mastery of the Game was rapidly ascending to Stardom.

And THAT...is why I PRAYED...on my KNEES...for us to SIGN him, 5 years ago.

MIND you: There is NO question that Wes Welker enjoys greater success because of his QuarterBack.

But Welker's ascension to Greatness was no more contingent on Tom Brady being his QuarterBack...than Tom Brady's continuation of Greatness was contingent on Wes Welker being'is Slot End.

 

[mayoclinic]

Given all things ~ trading Welker ~ something I would NOT do ~ is a reasonable subject to bring up.

I'm fairly confidant that if some team - especially one likely to finish in the bottom half - were to call and offer a 1st for Welker, BB would seriously consider it. Not saying the Pats would make the trade, but they'd give it due consideration.

The Pats are all about present and future value. Welker has considerable value to the team, no doubt about it. But if BB felt he could get more value out of trading Welker than from keeping him, he'd do it.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

Get back to us when you figure out the difference between correlation and causation, and when you realize that Welker was one dropped pass away from doing just what you say can't be done.

Most of our Scoring came from Our Tightends... JUST SAYING. Infact, most teams backed off from welker giving him all the room to put up the stats he did and concentrated on taking away Gronk as best as they could because they knew Welker wasn't going to kill them on the scoreboard... JUST SAYING.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

"blah blah blah, if you study the game like I do , blah blah blah" Quit it. A slot reciever is not going to get #1 money, A slot receiver isn't going to make or break your team... The market for a slot receiver is not on fire despite Welkers continued excellence.. the fact remains... what we would get in turn at this moment in a trade would be FAR LESS than what Welker is valued to us.

And Yes I DO REALIZE Vernon Davis is a TE who catches passes along withall these other guys the 49ers brought in...... Crabtree has something Welker doesnt have at the moment... Youth...so I bet the 49ers dont jump ship just yet.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

I am not bashing this topic although... Its a good question and given the surprising nature of the draft and offseason anything is possible.

 

[supafly]

Most of our Scoring came from Our Tightends... JUST SAYING. Infact, most teams backed off from welker giving him all the room to put up the stats he did and concentrated on taking away Gronk as best as they could because they knew Welker wasn't going to kill them on the scoreboard... JUST SAYING.

I get what you're saying, although I'm not sure that I would personally agree with that thought. Welker was/is extremely important in this offense going forward, and I feel that there would no longer be that 'go to' guy that we need when the chips are down; even despite the emergence of the TE's.

I think you broke it down nicely in your other post which states that we would probably not get as high of a pick (expected 1st rd) that many assume, therefore Wes Welker on this team IS indeed worth 'more than his potential compensation.' I would expect a 2nd, at most a 2nd and an additional pick of mid-round status.

I think the question becomes "do you (the fan), or does Bill Belichick feel that that possible scenario would benefit the team more than his departure/compensation would?"

Although it may be a bit on the obvious side, that's really all that it comes down to. I do think that we will continue to see differing opinions on the matter, and that's to be expected.

I think Mayoclinic wrapped it up when stating that Belichick would likely strongly consider a 1st rd pick, as many of us would. Personally I myself wouldn't do it, as I would rather have a sure thing over somewhat of a gamble even with a 1st rd pick...but I can certainly understand the thinking that goes behind those who WOULD make that trade.

I don't think there's necessarily a 'wrong' answer to this debate, and luckily we have a very capable person who is in charge of making the decision for us.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

I get what you're saying, although I'm not sure that I would personally agree with that thought. Welker was/is extremely important in this offense going forward, and I feel that there would no longer be that 'go to' guy that we need when the chips are down; even despite the emergence of the TE's.

I think you broke it down nicely in your other post which states that we would probably not get as high of a pick (expected 1st rd) that many assume, therefore Wes Welker on this team IS indeed worth 'more than his potential compensation.' I would expect a 2nd, at most a 2nd and an additional pick of mid-round status.

I think the question becomes "do you (the fan), or does Bill Belichick feel that that possible scenario would benefit the team more than his departure/compensation would?"

Although it may be a bit on the obvious side, that's really all that it comes down to. I do think that we will continue to see differing opinions on the matter, and that's to be expected.

I think Mayoclinic wrapped it up when stating that Belichick would likely strongly consider a 1st rd pick, as many of us would. Personally I myself wouldn't do it, as I would rather have a sure thing over somewhat of a gamble even with a 1st rd pick...but I can certainly understand the thinking that goes behind those who WOULD make that trade.

I don't think there's necessarily a 'wrong' answer to this debate, and luckily we have a very capable person who is in charge of making the decision for us.

You nailed it on the head my friend. I agree, I do not want to get rid of welker unless we are getting something sure in return. I just do not think teams will pony up and pay the price we as fans or Belichick as coach would expect in return.

Heres to Welker staying a patriot for this season and beyond!

 

[supafly]

"We" refers to the team.

The team that "WE" root for.

The team that wouldn't exist ~ as would none of the other 31 ~ if it wasn't for "WE."

Nicely put for those who enjoy being smartasses.

(no disrespect intended to JR4, as I do not mean to single him out personally)

I often catch myself using the term "we" too, and I can honestly say that for the money I spend on tickets/Directv sunday ticket, merchandise, NFL network etc, that I feel as though I should be included in the "we."

And that's not even bringing up the fact that I am often on a messageboard at weird hours of the day...during the season's lowest downtime, in the middle of the spring. If that doesn't make me enough of a fan, then so be it.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

It just gets me going when people are all "well study the game like I do". Please. I've watched/played alot of football in my life. Welker is a GREAT and RARE talent... and in the right situations (given his situation here) he will continue to blossom and put up godly numbers.

Seeing as the trend right now is big fast outside receivers (given all the penalties and suspect pass defenses), I dont see as team coming out and forefitting top picks/cash for welker... Therefore, No I wouldn't make the trade, now is not the time- it may never be the time at this point.

 

[supafly]

You nailed it on the head my friend. I agree, I do not want to get rid of welker unless we are getting something sure in return. I just do not think teams will pony up and pay the price we as fans or Belichick as coach would expect in return.

Heres to Welker staying a patriot for this season and beyond!

Yes sir. I would relish the opportunity to root for him on the team for another few yrs to come, and feel as though the ability to properly read and react in this particular offense where timing is of the upmost importance should not be undervalued.

If the right offer comes about, then I trust in the mind of BB; but even then I may still b!tch about it on some level

Nothing less than a 1st rd pick, and even then--not only do I 'not' see that happening, I also still think it's a very difficult situation to choose.

 

[supafly]

It just gets me going when people are all "well study the game like I do". Please. I've watched/played alot of football in my life. Welker is a GREAT and RARE talent... and in the right situations (given his situation here) he will continue to blossom and put up godly numbers.

Seeing as the trend right now is big fast outside receivers (given all the penalties and suspect pass defenses), I dont see as team coming out and forefitting top picks/cash for welker... Therefore, No I wouldn't make the trade, now is not the time- it may never be the time at this point.

Very interesting analysis, that may very well hold a lot of water.

I am still under the impression that there isn't as much reason to believe that we'll actually see enough of a diminished skillset for what the team is asking him to do here; although some may agree or disagree.

Not suggesting that #83 isn't a great athelete, just that the slot position isn't going to demand as much athleticism as the outside WR's will, as far as losing a step or two. I feel that Welker's bread and butter is about (in order):

1. The ability to properly read the defense and be on the same page as TFB. This skill is certainly NOT going to diminish.

2. The ability to properly take a hit and bounce back--although I also have noticed at times that he knows when to go down too, and that may save him from some unnecessary hits over the next few yrs.

3. The ability to have good enough hands to make the grab, which should not diminish over the next 3 yrs.

4. The ability to put a juke move or two on the defender. This would likely be the 2nd most likely to diminish skill and worry, behind bouncing back from the hits.

5. The ability to properly run down the field for 5-10-15 yds on the majority of the plays. I would think we're safe here.

The wildcard of course is the ability to take more hits than the average guy like Larry Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson, but there have also been some RB's who continue to play past the age of 33-34, so I think we're good with another 3 yrs in my opinion.

 

[BeanTownPatriot]

Very interesting analysis, that may very well hold a lot of water.

I am still under the impression that there isn't as much reason to believe that we'll actually see enough of a diminished skillset for what the team is asking him to do here; although some may agree or disagree.

Not suggesting that #83 isn't a great athelete, just that the slot position isn't going to demand as much athleticism as the outside WR's will, as far as losing a step or two. I feel that Welker's bread and butter is about (in order):

1. The ability to properly read the defense and be on the same page as TFB. This skill is certainly NOT going to diminish.

2. The ability to properly take a hit and bounce back--although I also have noticed at times that he knows when to go down too, and that may save him from some unnecessary hits over the next few yrs.

3. The ability to have good enough hands to make the grab, which should not diminish over the next 3 yrs.

4. The ability to put a juke move or two on the defender. This would likely be the 2nd most likely to diminish skill and worry, behind bouncing back from the hits.

5. The ability to properly run down the field for 5-10-15 yds on the majority of the plays. I would think we're safe here.

The wildcard of course is the ability to take more hits than the average guy like Larry Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson, but there have also been some RB's who continue to play past the age of 33-34, so I think we're good with another 3 yrs in my opinion.

Agreed. Totally.

 

[thenepatsrule]

Can we please have this thread deleted? its an embarrassment to us all.......... Some Jets / Ravens fan masquerading as a pats fan creates a controversial thread and all Pats fans start arguing among themselves in the thread.......

 

[Deus Irae]

Most of our Scoring came from Our Tightends... JUST SAYING. Infact, most teams backed off from welker giving him all the room to put up the stats he did and concentrated on taking away Gronk as best as they could because they knew Welker wasn't going to kill them on the scoreboard... JUST SAYING.

You didn't watch a single Patriots game all season, did you?

 

[rookBoston]

I'm sure BB wants Wes on the team, and is willing to pay good money for a hard working, reliable guy who is incredibly productive. But, even more than that, trading Wes now would be an act of bad faith. I think BB will enter negotiations with the intention of signing a deal. As things stand, there's no reason to think the team and player wont reach terms. Both sides want to do a deal.

Superficially, Welker is in the same situation that Mankins was two years ago, and Asante before that. Logan chose to hold out, sit out half the season, then sign his tender and re-join the team. He lost a few million dollars in the process, but was finally able to get his long term deal after the CBA was signed. Samuel signed his tender and played the year, after negotiating the right to enter free agency that following year without being tagged a second time.

Wes has chosen a different path from either of them. I hope BB honors the fact that Wes signed his tender without a lot of drama, and makes a positive example out of it for players who get the tag in the future.

But, let's not forget who we're talking about. BB traded many of his favorite players...Bledsoe, Branch and Seymour in the prime of their careers, and traded Vrabel too, the ultimate coach on the field. With that kind of history, sure as hell Welker is fair game. Doesn't matter how core he is to the team, or our inability to replace him. If he prices himself the way Asante did, or Ty Law or Lawyer Milloy, then he is going end up playing elsewhere.

Trading Welker makes sense, for a 1st round pick and $9MM in salary cap space, if the next best option is to sign a bigger contract than the player is worth. Better to trade them for draft value than see the guy walk away in free agency, anyway.

 

[rookBoston]

Passing thought: how much would it cost to sign a 27 yr old Calvin Johnson when he hits free agency in 2013 do you think? $10-12M/yr?

If you knew that Megatron wanted to play for Brady, McDaniels and Belichick would that change your perspective on the urgency of giving Welker a big money deal? Sure as hell, we couldn't pay both of them.

 

[Deus Irae]

Passing thought: how much would it cost to sign a 27 yr old Calvin Johnson when he hits free agency in 2013 do you think? $10-12M/yr?

If you knew that Megatron wanted to play for Brady, McDaniels and Belichick would that change your perspective on the urgency of giving Welker a big money deal? Sure as hell, we couldn't pay both of them.

ALLEN PARK, Mich.—The Detroit Lions have signed wide receiver Calvin Johnson to an eight-year contract worth up to $132 million, the biggest deal in NFL history.

The player's agent, Bus Cook, said the contract announced Wednesday is worth $60 million guaranteed. That figure and the total value of the contract are both NFL records.

Lions sign WR Calvin Johnson to 8yr, $132M deal - Boston.com

 

[rookBoston]

Lions sign WR Calvin Johnson to 8yr, $132M deal - Boston.com

Holy hell. Let me get my calculator... average $16MM/yr. Honestly, I'd rather have two Welkers than one Calvin, at that price.