Wozzy
Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.1) I agree that we should NOT be considered with the cap hit. We shouldn't spend $11M of new money simply because of cap accounting.People get so overworked about when money hits the cap that they lose sight of how much money is hitting the cap overall. Keeping Smith at his current $11M means that’s another $11M that has to hit the cap at some point. The immediate cap implications are less important than just saying that you don’t want to pay the guy $11M.
In slightly rounded terms, Smith’s restructure pushed $5.3M cap hit from 2022 to $2.65M in 2023 and $2.65M in 2024. That 2023 portion happens whether he’s on the roster or not. If he’s cut without the June 1 designation, then last year’s restructure means the extra $2.65M for 2024 will accelerate to 2023. Are people really throwing a tantrum about $2.65M? The original signing bonus ($3.75M cap hit in 2024 that would also accelerate to 2023 if cut) is a bigger issue, but again, see the previous paragraph.
The best outcome here is probably a pay cut with incentives to earn the money back. Smith has a fairly unique skill set and O’Brien has gotten production out of less skilled players before. Rosenhaus has already started negotiating his clients’ pay cuts this offseason (Aaron Jones from $16M down to $11M yesterday), and the Patriots have even negotiated with him on a tight end pay cut before (Dwayne Allen).
(This all assumes Corry’s report is accurate. It would surprise me if everybody else was wrong this whole time, but I also find it hard to see how Corry could be wrong given that it’s an article about what date the salary vests on, and there would be no vesting date if it was already fully guaranteed.)
I think that the team is fine with Smith at $10M and $11M a year of new money. There are enough needs without creating another one.You cut Jonnu tomorrow, who plays that H-Back (Hernandez, Keith Byars) role opposite Hunter Henry this season?
Jonnu's lack of production hasn't necessarily been a product of his inability to do the job... the offense around him has either had a rookie QB and passed less than just about any team in the league (2021), or has been an outright dumpster fire due to coaching (2022) who passed less than just about any team in the league.
I don't get the idea of judging TE/FB/H-Back's off receiving production alone anyway... blocking matters, especially for a team that only runs and rarely passes. The list of free agent TE's worth a damn is small, the list of guys who can flex into the backfield and play fullback is even smaller.
The offensive coaches and QB's have to be better at their job in 2023... period.
If you want to restructure Jonnu to open up cap space... fine, otherwise tell me who is playing his position in 2023 when you cut him?
On point 3 - I think they structure the guaranteed money to hit three days after free agency so that the player can see what the market for tight ends looks like and evaluate if it’s smarter to take the restructure the team is offering, or say “no” and get released to try to get a new deal elsewhere.1) I agree that we should NOT be considered with the cap hit. We shouldn't spend $11M of new money simply because of cap accounting.
2) So, the question is whether Smith is worth the new (avoidable) money. I suspect that the team will decide that he is. However, that is a team decision involving his project value, given recovery from injuries.
3) You suggest what many posters often do. A player hasn't played up to expectations, so you think that he will now be a good guy and take a pay cut. That just isn't the way contracts work. If the team wants t cut him, they will. Smith has no incentive to accept a pay cut. He would just wait to be cut and look for a team that wants him.
False alarm. I similarly don’t know how he screwed that up, making up a date when there is no date because nothing is happening.
False alarm. I similarly don’t know how he screwed that up, making up a date when there is no date because nothing is happening.
corry didnt know what he was talking about, apparently... while only 6.25 m is guaranteed, the 19 million dollar dead cap hit that would come releasing him all but guarantees his 2023 contract...What the actual F. This makes no sense
Yep. Well that’s really stupid.corry didnt know what he was talking about, apparently... while only 6.25 m is guaranteed, the 19 million dollar dead cap hit that would come releasing him all but guarantees his 2023 contract...
Other teams cannot make offers. Smith is under contract through 2024. The waiting period is there to allow free agencies to hear from other teams before making a decision on an offer from their current team.On point 3 - I think they structure the guaranteed money to hit three days after free agency so that the player can see what the market for tight ends looks like and evaluate if it’s smarter to take the restructure the team is offering, or say “no” and get released to try to get a new deal elsewhere.
you dont want to do that without extending the deal with a void year... in '24 he has a 18m cap hit... if they cut him next year, we get 12m in cap space, and 6.4m in dead money... a much better time to make a move... add another 4.5m to that then its 11 million in dead money and only 8 million in cap savings... if i've read the numbers correctlyYep. Well that’s really stupid.
But in any case, if he’s definitely going to be on the roster for 2023 then they could once again convert most of his $10M salary into a signing bonus. If $6.25M is guaranteed already then just convert $9M into a bonus and prorate it over 2023 and 2024. Drop salary to $1M. Makes his bonus proration in 2023 and 2024 around $11M per year. He would have around a $13M cap hit in 2023 so they’d save a few million in cap space. His salary in 2024 is not guaranteed so if he doesn’t turn it around in 2023 they could release him for just a dead money hit of $11M. If he DOES turn it around then his cap hit is a little high and they’d want to extend him to keep him around anyway and get the cap hit lower again.
I guess my first paragraph wasn’t overly clear. Under Corry’s made up scenario, I would have offered Smith a pay cut and then released him if an agreement couldn’t be reached. I’m not one of those people who suggests pay cuts for players who aren’t cut candidates. It usually doesn’t work out and the player just gets cut, but I know there’s been a pay cut from a Patriots player in at least 7 of the last 8 offseasons (3 are Amendola, but still 4 of the other 5), so I don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest that one could happen this offseason.3) You suggest what many posters often do. A player hasn't played up to expectations, so you think that he will now be a good guy and take a pay cut. That just isn't the way contracts work. If the team wants t cut him, they will. Smith has no incentive to accept a pay cut. He would just wait to be cut and look for a team that wants him.
The wrinkle here is that BOB was the guy that had great success with our 2 TE offense. Of course, that was Gronk and Hernandez and not Henry and Smith.
Hunter Henry is no Gronk... that being said nobody is. Hunter Henry is one of the better TE's in the NFL right now.Simple as that.
I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that Smith could estimate his worth on the open market based upon deals that free agent TEs are signed to. However it’s all a moot point now.Other teams cannot make offers. Smith is under contract through 2024. The waiting period is there to allow free agencies to hear from other teams before making a decision on an offer from their current team.
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It is the team that has the choice. They can cut him or not.
There seems to be a dispute with regard to whether $6.35M of his 2023 salary is guaranteed. In any case it is up to the team. They can certainly decided to have Smith sign a new contract or be cut.
fair enoughI think you misunderstood me. I was saying that Smith could estimate his worth on the open market based upon deals that free agent TEs are signed to. However it’s all a moot point now.