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No matter what, this was a successful season.

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yukon cornelius

In the Starting Line-Up
What are you basing that on? The guy had multiple years of championship level football left and Bill let him walk. I can tell you this, the team is not 17-17 the last two seasons with 4 losses to the Bills and 3 losses to Tua with the Goat at QB.

you understand where this roster was? and how keeping a brady contract on the books would have effected roster construction?
 

PATSYLICIOUS

Pro Bowl Player
What are you basing that on? The guy had multiple years of championship level football left and Bill let him walk. I can tell you this, the team is not 17-17 the last two seasons with 4 losses to the Bills and 3 losses to Tua with the Goat at QB.

we definitely would not have gone far, if anywhere, with brady in 2020. That team had downgraded from the 2019 team that collapsed down the stretch WITH brady and ultimately wasn’t close to a sb at the end. If he drags them to the playoffs in 2020, its one or two and done at best.

this year is borderline but id still lean towards likely no super bowl given the way our lb and cb were exposed late. We’re improved from last years roster but still probably a year or so away from legitimately contending . As great as brady still is, he is not covering up that defense we saw the last month throwing to nelson agholor, jacobi meyers, kendrick bourne, and hunter henry.

brady would have wasted his last 2 seasons here. Perhaps (and thats only given that we DO have a good offseason to fill some big holes), he could have been in position to win a sb here next year. Instead he went to a team that had the pieces to win now. He got that ring last year, and he has an outside shot this year. Not as good a shot as last year with the injuries but probably better than his chances here.
 

yukon cornelius

In the Starting Line-Up
we definitely would not have gone far, if anywhere, with brady in 2020. That team had downgraded from the 2019 team that collapsed down the stretch WITH brady and ultimately wasn’t close to a sb at the end. If he drags them to the playoffs in 2020, its one or two and done at best.

this year is borderline but id still lean towards likely no super bowl given the way our lb and cb were exposed late. We’re improved from last years roster but still probably a year or so away from legitimately contending . As great as brady still is, he is not covering up that defense we saw the last month throwing to nelson agholor, jacobi meyers, kendrick bourne, and hunter henry.

brady would have wasted the last 2 seasons here. Perhaps (and thats only given that we DO have a good offseason to fill some big holes), he could have been in position to win a sb here next year. Instead he went to a team that had the pieces to win now. He got that ring last year, and he has an outside shot this year. Not as good a shot as last year with the injuries but probably better than his chances here.

and you're looking at this year if you just drop brady onto this roster, minus contract/cap?
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Well, yeah. This is all a byproduct of not having a single good draft over a 7 season period. So, at the end of the day, it all still falls on BB. Can’t give him credit for good team building when the team is winning and excuse him for the bad things when the team is losing. The only reason the roster had to “bottom out” in 2020 is because he had to spend more on middling veterans to fill holes that good drafts could have filled at a fraction of the price. Instead, we were anywhere from mediocre to horrific in that area up until the 2021 draft, which looks great based on early returns.

Yes. TB12 left after years of pathetic drafting from 2013-2019 that RobertWeathers thinks was wonderful. Expect more of the same crappy player acquisition trend if Ace and Gary college roommates Ziegler and McDaniels continue their blind personnel influence over the franchise. Eliot Wolf is likely gone to another team later this month.
 
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Tunescribe

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Because Brady is now 5-0 in the post-season since Bill let him go while Bill is 1-2 getting his doors blown off by the Bills. I mean the juxtaposition is mind numbing for anyone who actually believed it was a good move for Bill to move on from the GOAT.
What are you basing that on? The guy had multiple years of championship level football left and Bill let him walk. I can tell you this, the team is not 17-17 the last two seasons with 4 losses to the Bills and 3 losses to Tua with the Goat at QB.
I agree with this. I do wonder if the way Gilmore was treated had a ripple effect. Also the play of Hightower and Van Noy was just so bad that you have to wonder if their voices were not heard by the younger players. I also think that Bill's son needs to move off of being the play caller. I can't count how many times defensive players were chirping after games when the defense got ripped about bad play calls. I don't think Bill can look at Saturday night and just hand wave it off as a bad game but has to seriously look at the coaching.
IMO, the draft class changed this past year because Kraft brought in other personnel guys making it a collaborative approach with Bill. The team finally made the obvious picks. I hope that happens again this year. They need another solid draft to fill in the holes.

Honestly, I don't think I ever have seen a poster so invested in conjuring conjecture to justify not being a fan of this team.
 

DropKickFlutie

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
IMO, the draft class changed this past year because Kraft brought in other personnel guys making it a collaborative approach with Bill. The team finally made the obvious picks. I hope that happens again this year. They need another solid draft to fill in the holes.

Bingo. Team will suck when Eliot Wolf leaves. The staff around BB is rotten. Get ready for more December implosions and 7+ years of crappy drafts with Ace and Gary college roommates Ziegler and McDaniels
 

Tunescribe

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And I have never seen anyone with Brady PTSD as bad as you except maybe Mac10 (formerly TommyBrady) LOL.

B.S. and you know it, I've shown nothing but respectful regard for Brady's ongoing GOAT status since he left. Your over-the-top Buccaneers worship is another thing entirely and I consider that fair game. So take a running jump, "Mr. LOL".
 
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40yrpatsfan

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Because Brady is now 5-0 in the post-season since Bill let him go while Bill is 1-2 getting his doors blown off by the Bills. I mean the juxtaposition is mind numbing for anyone who actually believed it was a good move for Bill to move on from the GOAT.
And with him, we wouldn't have won anything in these past 2 years either, just like we didn't his last year here when we were bounced out in the first round. We'd actually be worse off than we are now because we'd have less talent in many areas of the roster with him making $20m+ a year, and he'd be on the verge of retirement so we'd have no long term solution at QB either.
 

Rob0729

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What are you basing that on? The guy had multiple years of championship level football left and Bill let him walk. I can tell you this, the team is not 17-17 the last two seasons with 4 losses to the Bills and 3 losses to Tua with the Goat at QB.

And they are not Super Bowl champs either year. Sure, the Pats would have had a better record with Brady on the roster, but I don't think either this years and especially last years' team would have been a legitimate Super Bowl contender with or without Brady. And the Pats wouldn't have his replacement on the roster now.

If the defense didn't totally collapse at the end of the season, arguing having Brady might have made the Pats legitimate Super Bowl contenders would have weight. But having Brady wouldn't have stopped the Bills from scoring on every drive for two games in three weeks with only two of the drives not TDs. Even Brady couldn't keep up with that. Brady never scored seven TDs on seven straight drives in his career.
 

40yrpatsfan

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We went through a stretch of winning 3 SB's in 5 years. The roster needed to be rebuilt after that. The right move was made to let Brady go and start the rebuild. Not to mention that it was more Brady's idea to leave than us not wanting him anymore.
 

Rob0729

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And with him, we wouldn't have won anything in these past 2 years either, just like we didn't his last year here when we were bounced out in the first round. We'd actually be worse off than we are now because we'd have less talent in many areas of the roster with him making $20m+ a year, and he'd be on the verge of retirement so we'd have no long term solution at QB either.

I don't know if the Pats would be worse off, but I don't think they would have been much better. Last year, they probably get into the playoffs and get bounced in the first round if the had Brady. This year, they might have won the division and lost to the Bills in Foxboro this past weekend rather than Buffalo.
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
And they are not Super Bowl champs either year. Sure, the Pats would have had a better record with Brady on the roster, but I don't think either this years and especially last years' team would have been a legitimate Super Bowl contender with or without Brady. And the Pats wouldn't have his replacement on the roster now.

If the defense didn't totally collapse at the end of the season, arguing having Brady might have made the Pats legitimate Super Bowl contenders would have weight. But having Brady wouldn't have stopped the Bills from scoring on every drive for two games in three weeks with only two of the drives not TDs. Even Brady couldn't keep up with that. Brady never scored seven TDs on seven straight drives in his career.
I don't think you can discount Brady's factor to elevate the team with the #1 seed in hand. But hypos are always tricky. There is no doubt that Bill lost control of this team and it imploded in spectacular fashion. But the overall point remains, that this team is in disarray with a fresh rebuild on the way to fix the defense and do something, anything to bolster the weapons on offense while Brady is 5-0 with a SB in hand and a divisional round game with the Rams this Sunday. At this point, Brady is literally routing Bill in terms of who is fairing better post-split.
 

Rob0729

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I don't think you can discount Brady's factor to elevate the team with the #1 seed in hand. But hypos are always tricky. There is no doubt that Bill lost control of this team and it imploded in spectacular fashion. But the overall point remains, that this team is in disarray with a fresh rebuild on the way to fix the defense and do something, anything to bolster the weapons on offense while Brady is 5-0 with a SB in hand and a divisional round game with the Rams this Sunday. At this point, Brady is literally routing Bill in terms of who is fairing better post-split.

The defense got old and banged up in places they were already very thin. Brady not a magician. We saw this year, his defense played well for a lot of the year. Brady and the offense covered for their poor play.

The Pats were also going to go through growing pains after Brady no matter if he left in 2020 or 2023. The last two years would have happened in some form after Brady left. We are lucky that the Pats have their QB of the future (possibly the next 20 years) in their second year. If they kept Brady, they could have had two or three more years of playoff runs with no Super Bowls and then had to wait a half decade or longer to get a QB they felt they could build around (The Dolphins are still looking for a Marino replacement decades later and look how many high first round picks the Jets have wasted on QBs). Jones may not end up being a franchise QB, but the Pats could have been searching for a long time to get someone as good.
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
The defense got old and banged up in places they were already very thin. Brady not a magician. We saw this year, his defense played well for a lot of the year. Brady and the offense covered for their poor play.

The Pats were also going to go through growing pains after Brady no matter if he left in 2020 or 2023. The last two years would have happened in some form after Brady left. We are lucky that the Pats have their QB of the future (possibly the next 20 years) in their second year. If they kept Brady, they could have had two or three more years of playoff runs with no Super Bowls and then had to wait a half decade or longer to get a QB they felt they could build around (The Dolphins are still looking for a Marino replacement decades later and look how many high first round picks the Jets have wasted on QBs). Jones may not end up being a franchise QB, but the Pats could have been searching for a long time to get someone as good.
You mean like Mills? LOL

You can find a Mac Jones in almost any draft. I'm sorry but I just don't see anything special about the guy. He did a nice job picking up the offense in his rookie year but his skill set is woeful in today's League. This rebuild could have been pushed off with no issue at all. I mean you don't move on from the greatest player of all time when he still has championship level play left but Bill was too stubborn to build the team the way it needs to be built to be competitive in today's League and that's what leads to the drubbing we saw on Saturday night with the defense that let up seven straight touchdowns and an offense that was inept. Without a seismic change in team building philosophy this team is not going to be a contender in the AFC anytime soon.
 

yukon cornelius

In the Starting Line-Up
I don't think you can discount Brady's factor to elevate the team with the #1 seed in hand. But hypos are always tricky. There is no doubt that Bill lost control of this team and it imploded in spectacular fashion. But the overall point remains, that this team is in disarray with a fresh rebuild on the way to fix the defense and do something, anything to bolster the weapons on offense while Brady is 5-0 with a SB in hand and a divisional round game with the Rams this Sunday. At this point, Brady is literally routing Bill in terms of who is fairing better post-split.

there is no doubt that's what happened?

oh, i have doubt.......the schedule caught up with the talent.......put some of those end of season tough games early on in the year, and finish with a run of cleveleland/jets/jax/atlanta and we'd be talking about how much better this team got at the end of the year and how it looks good for the future
 

amfootball

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
there is no doubt that's what happened?

oh, i have doubt.......the schedule caught up with the talent.......put some of those end of season tough games early on in the year, and finish with a run of cleveleland/jets/jax/atlanta and we'd be talking about how much better this team got at the end of the year and how it looks good for the future
No we wouldn't. We would talk about how the end of the year was a bunch of cupcakes. The same as we talked about the 7-0 win streak. It was a mirage. It was against cupcakes.

And none of that changes the fact that Buffalo still would have blown our doors off in the postseason.
 

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