Nice week, time for some facts

[Tunescribe]

So at what point will they stop being flukes, it seemed to me that Buffalo was making a legit effort at tipping passes at the line in that game, after the second tip interception. And even if you take all those away from the Buffalo game, that still doesn't take the Giants game interceptions away, which contributed to that lost, or those cowboys interception. BTW, can I take away that last drive by the Pats against the cowboys since we are taking away things that do not make our points?

Hopefully you can tell the difference between an interception that results from poor decision making and one that results from a tip/bounce that's not the fault of the passer. It's a reasonable distinction to make and if you can't tell the difference, I doubt anyone here can help you.

 

[strngplyr]

2 tipped balls? That's it? Wow. This is worse than I thought...So that means even if you take away those 2 Brady's on pace for 16 interceptions, which is still the highest of his career.

No. The fact that he's on pace to throw for record setting yards means absolutely nothing to me because

a) As someone else pointed out, everyone's setting career highs in passing this season.
b) TB is on pace to throw the ball 642 times this season, which is easily a career high so he'd better throw for record-setting yardage.
c) Similar to b), BJGE, the lead back on this team, will most likely get around 200 careers for the season, which is pretty low compared to most other teams
d) Frankly, Brady probably should make for all that yardage considering how he sets the offense back by throwing those picks.
e) You take away the first two games of the season and Tom Brady has been statistically nothing sepcial.

You can take away the 8 games Aaron Rodgers has played and he has no stats for this season.

 

[Ring 6]

Especially when it doesn't fit your narrative. This defense is hopeless (due to injuries & lack of talent) so I could give a crap about any stat that shows otherwise.

Right because it is playing almost identically to last seasons defense that played really well in the 2nd half. I can understand why you do care about any facts,because thats the only way you can cry and be happy.

As far as the offense is concerned, take the stats for first three games out of the equation and try it again.

Oh, did I miss it, was another team in Patriots uniforms for those games?
Sorry, let me know who it was so I can give them credit.

That will give you a nice 5 game trend for this offense - when problems first began to surface. If the narrative plays out the same, then I'll listen. If not, pipe down, and suffer us "fools". :bricks:

So you become right if you cherry pick? OK, If you away good games, Bradys # arent as good. That means what ?

The one area where you are on sound ground is when you point out that it is foolish to expect Brady, who has an established history of protecting the ball, to continue throwing picks at historic, for him, levels.

The one area? That is the area you are saying negates that he just had what may be the best passing first half in NFL history, and certainly is in the top 5 of any QB.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

You can take away the 8 games Aaron Rodgers has played and he has no stats for this season.

I'm sorry. I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. My point was even if you spot Brady 2 picks for being tipped, he's still having a bad season (by his standards) and thus overall still making bad decisions.

 

[Ring 6]

2 tipped balls? That's it? Wow. This is worse than I thought...So that means even if you take away those 2 Brady's on pace for 16 interceptions, which is still the highest of his career.

No. The fact that he's on pace to throw for record setting yards means absolutely nothing to me because

a) As someone else pointed out, everyone's setting career highs in passing this season.

so, best ever is no good because others are doing well?

b) TB is on pace to throw the ball 642 times this season, which is easily a career high so he'd better throw for record-setting yardage.

Wait. You are saying that because he passed 321 times, the fact that he has the 2nd highest yardage total in NFL history is what he is supposed to do? Really?

c) Similar to b), BJGE, the lead back on this team, will most likely get around 200 careers for the season, which is pretty low compared to most other teams

What does that have to do with what Brady does when he throws? In fact it should make it harder for him.

d) Frankly, Brady probably should make for all that yardage considering how he sets the offense back by throwing those picks.

Write back when you want to discuss like an adult.

e) You take away the first two games of the season and Tom Brady has been statistically nothing sepcial.

First, why are we taking away games, and secondly, you are wrong.

 

[strngplyr]

I'm sorry. I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. My point was even if you spot Brady 2 picks for being tipped, he's still having a bad season (by his standards) and thus still making bad this decisions.

2700 yards, 20TD, 8INT (if you spot 2), and 66% completion is bad?

Alot of QB's would kill for that over the course of a season, that'd be a magical year for the likes of Mark Sanchez and Matt Moore, and Brady has done that in 8 games.

Are you expecting 36td and 4int every season? Open your eyes. Brady is fine.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

"Stats are for losers"..."You are what your record says you are"! Tb will be fine. You cant win every game!!! We are lucky to be where we are. Go pats. :rocker:..Now pass me that koolaid

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

On pace for 20 interceptions and has probably thrown more redzone INTs this season than he has in his career combined.

To me that's all that really matters. TB is making mistakes at crucial moments and turning the ball over more often than most QBs, which is something he almost completely avoided last season. For that reason I really can't see this as a "historic" season.

EDIT: Like Peyton Manning once said, every interception has its story but no one wants to hear it. Tipped ball or not, at the end of the day the only thing that counts is that INT on the stat box.

I'm a total Brady rump swab but rationalizing Brady's uncharacteristic plague of turn overs while we chortle at Manning's pick six in the SB is even more homerific that I care to be. Tom is probably beside himself regardless of the causes. It is he who makes the decision when and where to throw the ball in the full context of pocket penetration, coverage and whatever. Being who he is and his workmanlike approach to preparation, I look for him to reduce the propensity for TOs as the season goes forward. Tonight's game is a huge test.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sorry. I don't think I understand what you're trying to say. My point was even if you spot Brady 2 picks for being tipped, he's still having a bad season (by his standards) and thus overall still making bad decisions.

If yuo eliminate those 2, he is at 2.4% rather than his career 2.2%.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

so, best ever is no good because others are doing well?


Wait. You are saying that because he passed 321 times, the fact that he has the 2nd highest yardage total in NFL history is what he is supposed to do? Really?



What does that have to do with what Brady does when he throws? In fact it should make it harder for him.


Write back when you want to discuss like an adult.


First, why are we taking away games, and secondly, you are wrong.

Best ever based on what? Yardage, seriously? Isn't it obvious that if you're throwing the ball at a record-breaking rate that you should end up with record-breaking yardage?

Oh, and based on your logic:

Peyton Manning in 2010: 33 TDs, 17 picks, 4700 yards
Peyton Manning in 2004: 49 TDs, 10 picks, 4557 yards

Peyton in 2010 was obviously much better than Peyton in 04.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

What a nice week thinking about a big game and not having to deal with the cyber diarrhead that has been posted here all week.
So lets lets add a few facts.
First, the Future Bandwagon Jumpers of America have decided to trash Tom Brady throughout the week. He is responsible for losses, he isnt what he used to be, blah, blah, blah. There was even a thread with 'interesting stats' used to trash his play this years, so how about we take a look?

Through the first 8 games, Tom Brady has the second highest passing yards total of any QB in NFL history in the first 8 games of a season.
Under the same critieria he also has the 9th most TD passes of any QB ever in any season, the 25th best completion percentage for the 24th highest yards per attempt ever. He has completed the 7th most passes of any QB ever in the first 8 games of a season. Again those ranking are compared to the first 8 games of the season for each season by every QB.

Lets comare Brady's first half this year to his first half last year....

2011 212/321 66.% 2703 yards 8.26 ypa 20 TDs 10 ints
2010 166/261 63.6% 1826 yards 7.38 ypa14 TDs 4 Ints

So I have heard that Brady isn't what he used to be. Is no longer accurate,. etc, etc
But the facts say compared to what has been argued as the best QB season ever his completion percentage is up, those completions are resulting in a dramatic increase of almost an extra yard per attempt, and he has 6 more TDs. Yes, he has 6 more Ints. Are we judging 321 passes by 6 balls that were tipped by his own guys, the other team or thrown off track by him being hit while throwing?
Brady has thrown for more than 100 yards more per game than he did in the first half of last year, given less than 8 additional attempts.

OK, so refer here when tempted to trash Brady.
More facts regarding defense and the team overall will follow.

Brady's passing stats mean JACKCRAP!!!!!
This team is 5 - 3 heading into a road game against the Jets. The offense is struggling to score over 20 points a game. The offense is turning the ball over. The Patriots needs to run/screen much more often and this QB needs to return to his pre-Peyton Brady ways, i.e. my favorite receiver is the open receiver.
Watch the replay of that 4th down TD pass to Gronk against the Giants. Brady has his eyes on Gronk and only Gronk the entire way. If Gronk doesn't come open the Patriots are screwed because Brady never looked at anyone else. Never took his eyes off Gronk for a second.
That's a bad habit TB has fallen into and it started with Randy Moss.

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

If yuo eliminate those 2, he is at 2.4% rather than his career 2.2%.

Right, except if you eliminate all the tipped balls in his career, because I'm pretty sure this isn't the first season people are tipping and intercepting his passes, his interception rate would be much lower than 2.2%.

 

[Ring 6]

Best ever based on what? Yardage, seriously?

The discussion was his statistical first half.

Isn't it obvious that if you're throwing the ball at a record-breaking rate that you should end up with record-breaking yardage?

No that is not obvious, and he is not throwing at a record breaking rate.

Oh, and based on your logic:

Peyton Manning in 2010: 33 TDs, 17 picks, 4700 yards
Peyton Manning in 2004: 49 TDs, 10 picks, 4557 yards

Peyton in 2010 was obviously much better than Peyton in 04.

That is not close to what I am saying

 

[Ring 6]

Right, except if you eliminate all the tipped balls in his career, because I'm pretty sure this isn't the first season people are tipping and intercepting his passes, his interception rate would be much lower than 2.2%.

What does that have to do with anything? I am identifying 2 plays that hit receivers in the hands and ended up Ints as the basic difference in his Int rate this year and his career Int rate (Which btw is phenomenal), while pointing out that all of his other statistic are epic compared to every QB who has ever played the game in any season.

 

[Ring 6]

Brady's passing stats mean JACKCRAP!!!!!

Actually they mean quite a bit in a discussion about how Brady has played.

This team is 5 - 3 heading into a road game against the Jets.

Aha, so now you are talking about the TEAM how its first half is almost identical to last years except for 1 toss up game going differently in the final seconds. OK.

The offense is struggling to score over 20 points a game.

No, they have scored 27.8 ppg.

The offense is turning the ball over. The Patriots needs to run/screen much more often and this QB needs to return to his pre-Peyton Brady ways, i.e. my favorite receiver is the open receiver.

Yeah, they need to run screens, thats the answer
The fact that Brady has individual receivers that get open more often that he used to does not mean he doesnt throw to the open receiver.

Watch the replay of that 4th down TD pass to Gronk against the Giants. Brady has his eyes on Gronk and only Gronk the entire way.

Yeah, damn those TD decisions:bricks:

If Gronk doesn't come open the Patriots are screwed because Brady never looked at anyone else.

Do yuo have a clue about QB read and progressions? Clearly not.

Never took his eyes off Gronk for a second.
That's a bad habit TB has fallen into and it started with Randy Moss.

I know, if Brady would only listen to you tell him how to play QB maybe he wouldn't only be throwing for 2700 yards and 20 TDs in half a season.

 

[Ring 6]

Right, except if you eliminate all the tipped balls in his career, because I'm pretty sure this isn't the first season people are tipping and intercepting his passes, his interception rate would be much lower than 2.2%.

That makes no sense. If you eliminate all the tipped balls this season, he is way below that too.
Read please:
The difference between Bradys Int % this year, and for his career is mostly the 2 passes that bounced off receivers hands. Both numbers include other tipped passes. If the receivers do not tip the ball to defenders those don't happen. Are you really telling me that for Bradys career once every 4 games he hits a receiver in the hands and it becomes an Int? You know thats wrong.

 

[mb6592]

Right because it is playing almost identically to last seasons defense that played really well in the 2nd half. I can understand why you do care about any facts,because thats the only way you can cry and be happy.

Please. "Played really well" - not really hard to do when your offense is scoring 40 (37.25 PPG avg over last 8 games) points a game. Andy, you are such a big homer that you're a borderline joke.

As far as the offense is concerned, take the stats for first three games out of the equation and try it again. That will give you a nice 5 game trend for this offense - when problems first began to surface. If the narrative plays out the same, then I'll listen. If not, pipe down, and suffer us "fools". :bricks:

Oh, did I miss it, was another team in Patriots uniforms for those games? Sorry, let me know who it was so I can give them credit.

I'll take this response as your acknowledgement that your BS theory (i.e. the Pats offense is performing as well as last year) is blown out of the water when we take a more discerning look at the offense's performance over the last 5 games - when the problems began to first surface (and to focus on when the problem started is hardly "cherry picking" when it represents 63% of the season and the last 5 consecutive games).

 

[Ring 6]

Please. "Played really well"??? Not really hard to do when your offense is scoring 40 (37.25 PPG avg over last 8 games) points a game. Andy, you are such a big homer that you're a borderline joke.

So the defense didn't play well the second half of last year?

I'll take this response as your acknowledgement that your BS theory (i.e. the Pats offense is performing as well as last year) is blown out of the water we take a more discerning view of the offense's performance over the last 5 games - when the problems began to first surface.

No you can take that as its a silly argument to 'take games out'.
The point was to show the first half last year vs the first half this year, and then illustrate what happened thereafter.
If you can't intellectually comprehend that, just push back from the keyboard and start rooting for the Jets real hard so the Patriots can lose and you can be vindicated and come back here and tell me you saw it coming.

 

[Nikolai]

Brady's INT total is a bit of dumb luck, though. Last year, especially in the last few games of the season, balls were tipped and fell harmlessly to the ground. I remember thinking how his INT-free streak had some luck in it. Now, those tipped balls are being intercepted.

Brady's actually playing very, very well. It's just not superhuman like it was late last year or in 2007.

Live by the pass...

 

[Ring 6]

Please. "Played really well"??? Not really hard to do when your offense is scoring 40 (37.25 PPG avg over last 8 games) points a game. Andy, you are such a big homer that you're a borderline joke.





I'll take this response as your acknowledgement that your BS theory (i.e. the Pats offense is performing as well as last year) is blown out of the water we take a more discerning view of the offense's performance over the last 5 games - when the problems began to first surface (and to focus on when the problem started is hardly "cherry picking" when it represents 63% of the season and the last 5 consecutive games).

Lets also ignore that last year against a weaker schedule the offense also had games of 14,14,23, and 23(20 in regulation)

You seem to fail to understand that this team has performed very similarly to last years team that went on to win the last 8, only because you want to wallow in negativity.