Nice week, time for some facts

[DropKickFlutie]

Come on guys, numbers don't paint the complete picture. I agree with andyjohnson that the defense is not that bad. The offense is the problem right now. Those offense numbers you produced are skewed by the first 3 games of the season. You cannot deny that the offense has struggled since the oakland game. We have not scored more than 20 points in 3 games (2 at home). Eye test andyjohnson

AndyJohnson isn't saying this. He never said it was on the offense, in fact he's arguing that Tom Brady is playing BETTER this year than he did last year.

He never, ever criticizes this team. Show me the sentence where he said anything about the offense struggling or that the losses are on the offense. I believe Rob0729 said that in a different thread, that the offense has been the problem. AndyJohnson is the biggest Kool Aid lush on this forum.

 

[brady199]

If the Pats are 1/2 as fired up as Andy today, it's gonna be a great day:rocker:

 

[Ring 6]

I guess it depends on what facts you want to ignore, in your initial post you decided to gloss over the turnovers which were a major contributor to two of the losses this team suffered.

Entirely untrue, I posted the Interception stats/

If you consider pointing out the obvious trashing, then we simply have a different understanding of what trashing someone is.

There are threads on this board saying Brady has lost it, Brady is the reaaon for the horrendous first place record, Brady lost his accuracy, 'sees ghosts', etc, etc.
The fact is that aside from Ints, he is having a significantly better year than he was at this point last year, in fact he is having an EPIC ALLTIME year, and if you are honest with yourself you would realize that the fact that most of the Ints were bounced off the hands of his own receivers, tipped by DL, or misdirected by being hit while throwing, you would recognzie they are not the result of a material difference in his level of play. However, you want to cry so you ignore that.

 

[Ring 6]

AndyJohnson isn't saying this. He never said it was on the offense, in fact he's arguing that Tom Brady is playing BETTER this year than he did last year.

I didnt ARGUE anything, I simply pointed iout the statistical evidence of Bradys play the first half of this year vs the first half of last year, which many considered the greatest year ever by a QB. You apparently found that convincing evidence of what you just posted.

He never, ever criticizes this team. Show me the sentence where he said anything about the offense struggling or that the losses are on the offense. I believe Rob0729 said that in a different thread, that the offense has been the problem. AndyJohnson is the biggest Kool Aid lush on this forum.

Why are yuo so obsessed with my posts?

 

[Ring 6]

My bad. I meant he was on pace for.

Exactly. Pace is meaningless, especially when his Int total is higher than ever primarily because of the fortune of the bounce of the ball.

 

[reflexblue]

Who knows, maybe Brady's pressing. Anyways i'm not all that worried about Brady, its the D that troubles me.

Like Tune said, we have maybe four more years of TB, the window is closing, i want to see him get One more Ring.

 

[BlitzFritz]

From memory, Brady was incredibly lucky last year on that streak of now INTs... there were so many tipped balls and potential picks, yet no one ended up with anything.

if you factor that in, people might not glorify Brady last year as much.

Nonetheless, Brady has had 3 games of multiple picks this year! That loses games. Not effective game management. Please stop.

-- FRITZ

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Exactly. Pace is meaningless, especially when his Int total is higher than ever primarily because of the fortune of the bounce of the ball.

You do realize that other quarterbacks have tipped interceptions too, right? You're starting to remind me of how when the Eagles traded for Jason Peters after he gave up 11 sacks one year all the Eagles fans were coming up with excuses for each and every one of the sacks he allowed, like "oh that was on the QB," without realizing that the same excuse applies to every other offensive lineman out there.

Sure Brady's had a FEW more balls tipped in the opponent's favor than other quarterbacks, but based on what I've seen this season he's definitely more prone to making bad decisions than years past, and I definitely don't agree with you that he's playing the best football of his career.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Well there is something you just totally made up.

Just off an extremely quick forum search:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page7.html#post1569107

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page7.html#post1569111

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page8.html#post1569164

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page8.html#post1569187


I don't see why you disagree that you're the biggest Kool Aid drinker on this forum. Just own up to it. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that you 100% support every single Patriots move and never criticize the team, due to your complete faith in Belichick. I'm with you that Belichick is the best of his era, but at least admit that most of your opinions when you defend the team is that you back up everything Belichick does, including Laurence Maroney. There are others I could dig up too on other players, but the point is even when the team is playing flat out terrible you try to spin it as otherwise.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Every Qb goes through rough patches or years where his int rate is higher then previous years. I'm not worried about Brady at all.

Spin it any way you want Andy. You try to back up this claim with your stats that the defense is not as bad as some think. Bottom line, we are 32nd in the league in total defense, 32nd in the league in pass defense. near the bottom in time of possesion. last in yards allowed per game, 5th worst in 3rd down% and above all we are 3rd worst in penalties given up. Not your typical BB defense.

Do I see improvement? It varies from week to week. I'm not going to analyze game by game and conjure some magical formula that comes up with "this defense isn't as bad as people think" though.

I'm positive they will improve, I support them regardless of how bad they stink at times. Applaud the good plays and scream at the bad ones. Bottom line, this defense must improve themselves on the field with their play and BB must do a better job coaching and hit homeruns in the 2012 draft on defense.

Again, I still support the team fully and the criticism doesn't make me any less of a fan than you.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I didnt ARGUE anything, I simply pointed iout the statistical evidence of Bradys play the first half of this year vs the first half of last year, which many considered the greatest year ever by a QB. You apparently found that convincing evidence of what you just posted.

You're trying to argue, against a handful of people here, that Brady's year this year is better than last year because he has higher yardage numbers. ALL the QB numbers in 2011 are higher than in 2010, heck Cam Newton and Andy Dalton are having some of the best rookie seasons ever, and if you go just by yards than Cam Newton is playing better than Brady. You're selectively choosing stats to make an argument that isn't there. The offense has been playing poorly and is the reason this team has lost their games this year, but you keep trying to sugar coat it. Why?

 

[Ring 6]

You do realize that other quarterbacks have tipped interceptions too, right?

Of course I do. I also realize that other QBs go out trying to move the ball and in the history of the NFL only 1 (ironcially Drew Brees this year, by about 40 yards) has thrown for more through 8 games, and only 8 have more TD passes. My entire post was comparing to historical QB stats.

You're starting to remind me of how when the Eagles traded for Jason Peters after he gave up 11 sacks one year all the Eagles fans were coming up with excuses for each and every one of the sacks he allowed, like "oh that was on the QB," without realizing that the same excuse applies to every other offensive lineman out there.

I am not making excuses in the least. I am discussing the topic. Making a poor decision, or throwing into coverage are issues that show a siginficant issue in the level of play of a QB. Having your receiver tip a pass into his hands to a defender, or having your pass tipped into the air by a DL is not. Can you not recognize that?

Sure Brady's had a FEW more balls tipped in the opponent's favor than other quarterbacks, but based on what I've seen this season he's definitely more prone to making bad decisions than years past, and I definitely don't agree with you that he's playing the best football of his career.

Based on what? Take away the unusual amount of 'bad luck' Ints, and where does that leave you? Does record setting passing yards and 20 TDs in a half a season, mean nothing?

In fact, lets do this. Bradys Int % is 3.1. His career is 2.2. Based upon 321 attempts .9% is 3 Ints.
2 of those were Ints that bounced Hernandez and Woodheads hands. Take away those, and give him one less bad bounce off a tipped ball, and he is having a record setting season while thrwoing no more Ints than he has through out his career (which is epically low).
Are you honestly telling me that Hernnandez and Woodhead and one tipped ball are your evidence of him making worse decisions?

 

[mb6592]

Exactly. Pace is meaningless

Especially when it doesn't fit your narrative. This defense is hopeless (due to injuries & lack of talent) so I could give a crap about any stat that shows otherwise. As far as the offense is concerned, take the stats for first three games out of the equation and try it again. That will give you a nice 5 game trend for this offense - when problems first began to surface. If the narrative plays out the same, then I'll listen. If not, pipe down, and suffer us "fools". :bricks:


And Andy, please, don't kid yourself, you are the homerest of the homers on this board.

The one area where you are on sound ground is when you point out that it is foolish to expect Brady, who has an established history of protecting the ball, to continue throwing picks at historic, for him, levels.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You're making excuses for Brady now, in a similar way that you made excuses for Laurence Maroney (blaming the O-line, our eyes, the coaches, etc).

Sometimes players don't play well and it's OKAY to point that out.

The past three games the offense has averaged under 20 points, so I'm not sure how you can continue to say there is no problem and that Brady is playing better.

 

[The_Chuck_Rule]

This stat says it all:

2011 - 212/321
2010 - 166/261

More attempts = Larger Percentage of Potential INT's

It's time for this team to make a concentrated effort to run the football.
(although I will say it's a little easier to do this when your in the lead, rather than trailing.)

BTW: I don't remember anybody complaining after the Miami game. (week 1)

 

[Ring 6]

Just off an extremely quick forum search:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page7.html#post1569107

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page7.html#post1569111

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page8.html#post1569164

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...k-maroney-pees-have-go-page8.html#post1569187

You found posts by me about Maroney that didnt say he deserves to be drawn and quartered and that is your proof that I
repeatedly posted about how good Laurence Maroney was a few years ago and how anyone who said otherwise was a bandwagon moron who posted "drivel".
Sorry, try again.

I don't see why you disagree that you're the biggest Kool Aid drinker on this forum. Just own up to it. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that you 100% support every single Patriots move and never criticize the team, due to your complete faith in Belichick. I'm with you that Belichick is the best of his era, but at least admit that most of your opinions when you defend the team is that you back up everything Belichick does, including Laurence Maroney. There are others I could dig up too on other players, but the point is even when the team is playing flat out terrible you try to spin it as otherwise.

Again, if someone said your intellect was 5 on a scale of 1 to 10, when it appears to be a 1, I would look like an ardent supporter of your stupidity.
If people were arguing a 0.3 I may look like your biggest supporter.

 

[strngplyr]

20 interceptions.

IMO Brady is without a doubt playing the worst football of his career. I don't care about yards or completion % or whatever. He's turning the ball over and that's costing this team points.

You pretty much say in this post that you don't care about numbers, while using a number to make your point. Brady hasn't thrown 20 interceptions, honestly, he should only have 4 or 5. You are trying to ignore the great statistics while also ignoring the fact that over half of the passes that turn into interceptions have been influenced by, for lack of a better word, flukes.

You can't cherry pick the stats, either use them or don't use them.

Tom Brady is playing football at a higher level than about 35 other quarterbacks that have started games this season. He is playing incredible football at the age of 34 and you are far too blinded by 2007 and 2010, while probably giving 2009 the benefit of the doubt because he was 'returning from injury'.

Interceptions are higher because his receivers aren't doing him any favors. The O-line has played like ass and not given him the time needed to let plays develop.

He's also on pace to throw for the second highest touchdown total of his career and one of the highest completion %'s of his career while possibly breaking Dan Marino's yardage total on his way to another 11-13 win season.

Bad quarterback is bad.

 

[Ring 6]

This stat says it all:

2011 - 212/321
2010 - 166/261

More attempts = Larger Percentage of Potential INT's

It's time for this team to make a concentrated effort to run the football.
(although I will say it's a little easier to do this when your in the lead, rather than trailing.)

BTW: I don't remember anybody complaining after the Miami game. (week 1)

The difference compared to his career Int % is 3 picks. Anyone who has watched the games knows there are more than 3 that had nothing to do with decision making and his quality of play.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

My entire post was comparing to historical QB stats.

Comparing to history selectively choosing certain stats is suspect because we are currently in the best era ever for QB's to pass, over the past few years. All the rules are in favor for passing and against the defense. 2011 might be the best year for passing ever. Cam Newton is on pace to shatter all time passing records not just for rookies.

You should compare Brady's 2011 stats to other 2011 QB's. Brady's 10 INT's put him on pace for the league leaders in INT's. The offense was shut out the 1st half last game. The offense averaged under 20 the past three games. Not everything is rosy, and criticism isn't "drivel"

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

Of course I do. I also realize that other QBs go out trying to move the ball and in the history of the NFL only 1 (ironcially Drew Brees this year, by about 40 yards) has thrown for more through 8 games, and only 8 have more TD passes. My entire post was comparing to historical QB stats.


I am not making excuses in the least. I am discussing the topic. Making a poor decision, or throwing into coverage are issues that show a siginficant issue in the level of play of a QB. Having your receiver tip a pass into his hands to a defender, or having your pass tipped into the air by a DL is not. Can you not recognize that?


Based on what? Take away the unusual amount of 'bad luck' Ints, and where does that leave you? Does record setting passing yards and 20 TDs in a half a season, mean nothing?

In fact, lets do this. Bradys Int % is 3.1. His career is 2.2. Based upon 321 attempts .9% is 3 Ints.
2 of those were Ints that bounced Hernandez and Woodheads hands. Take away those, and give him one less bad bounce off a tipped ball, and he is having a record setting season while thrwoing no more Ints than he has through out his career (which is epically low).
Are you honestly telling me that Hernnandez and Woodhead and one tipped ball are your evidence of him making worse decisions?

2 tipped balls? That's it? Wow. This is worse than I thought...So that means even if you take away those 2 Brady's on pace for 16 interceptions, which is still the highest of his career.

No. The fact that he's on pace to throw for record setting yards means absolutely nothing to me because

a) As someone else pointed out, everyone's setting career highs in passing this season.
b) TB is on pace to throw the ball 642 times this season, which is easily a career high so he'd better throw for record-setting yardage.
c) Similar to b), BJGE, the lead back on this team, will most likely get around 200 careers for the season, which is pretty low compared to most other teams
d) Frankly, Brady probably should make for all that yardage considering how he sets the offense back by throwing those picks.
e) You take away the first two games of the season and Tom Brady has been statistically nothing sepcial.