NE @ Broncos: pregame thoughts

[PP2]

Similar to the rewatch threads, I thought it would be nice to do a pre-game thread that's strictly X and O's.

Philly did some pretty creative things to neutralize Von Miller. Look for us to steal some stuff from what they did in their game:

The Eagles used Von Miller against himself, with gifs and stuff

 

[NE-VT]

Thanks for getting this going! Is there any chance you could tag it with "all-22"? I like being able to use the tags to quickly pull up these threads later.

Here is the reddit page with week 9 highlights:

Picture/GIF/Video highlights thread (Week 9, Sunday) • r/nfl

I thought I could start with this play (@PP2 's article discusses it from a Von Miller perspective):



I love this play design. It looks like either a run-pass option (where Wentz reads #21 Talib) or a designed play action. WR #17 starts the route with a fake WR screen, into a fade route. Talib sees the WR screen and focuses on the action in the backfield, taking his eyes off of the WR. As the happens the WR runs the fade. Nice design and execution.

I think the refs missed a hands to the camera penalty however.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That was a great play. Watched it live then immediately replayed it to see WTF happened to All-World Corner Talib. He bit 100% on the run fake and was MIA in downfield coverage. We'd need a serious run threat to sucker the guy again. I think if we can design plays where Talib has to cover Cooksie, we'll have some success.

 

[NE-VT]

The Eagles used Von Miller against himself, with gifs and stuff

I strongly recommend folks check out that article. It is extremely good. Thanks for sharing!

Look for us to steal some stuff from what they did in their game:

A couple of thoughts on that:

1. I am not sure that Brady is able to make some of the plays with his feat that Wentz is:



Does Brady just get killed if we don't block on a play action like this? Even if Brady could maybe do it, is it worth the risk?

2. The first play linked used a read-option concept. Miller was afraid to commit full speed at the QB or RB because he was unsure who would have it. I don't recall us ever running a read option like this. It is likely our system could handle it, BOB did it with Watson a ton.

 

[patfanken]

Thanks for getting this going! Is there any chance you could tag it with "all-22"? I like being able to use the tags to quickly pull up these threads later.

Here is the reddit page with week 9 highlights:

Picture/GIF/Video highlights thread (Week 9, Sunday) • r/nfl

I thought I could start with this play (@PP2 's article discusses it from a Von Miller perspective):



I love this play design. It looks like either a run-pass option (where Wentz reads #21 Talib) or a designed play action. WR #17 starts the route with a fake WR screen, into a fade route. Talib sees the WR screen and focuses on the action in the backfield, taking his eyes off of the WR. As the happens the WR runs the fade. Nice design and execution.

I think the refs missed a hands to the camera penalty however.

Interesting that Jeffery got behind Talib despite the fact he doesn't have much raw speed. It makes me wonder if the key to attacking Talib is double moves, like the one we see here.

We will have a huge amount of raw speed in Cooks and Dorsett (assuming Hogan doesn't pay). So I would think the key will be creating formation and motions that will get these guys of the LOS clean. I'm afraid that neither of our guys will have great success against the Denver secondary if they have to beat physical press/man coverage. But getting them in motion or lining up in bunch formations can free them up to get clean breaks off the line

 

[luuked]

Interesting that Jeffery got behind Talib despite the fact he doesn't have much raw speed. It makes me wonder if the key to attacking Talib is double moves, like the one we see here.

You'd think that with Talib playing here for 2 years our coaching staff would know his strengths and weaknesses. But of course it can be age slowly taking its toll.

 

[maineman209]

I strongly recommend folks check out that article. It is extremely good. Thanks for sharing!



A couple of thoughts on that:

1. I am not sure that Brady is able to make some of the plays with his feat that Wentz is:



Does Brady just get killed if we don't block on a play action like this? Even if Brady could maybe do it, is it worth the risk?

2. The first play linked used a read-option concept. Miller was afraid to commit full speed at the QB or RB because he was unsure who would have it. I don't recall us ever running a read option like this. It is likely our system could handle it, BOB did it with Watson a ton.

If the fake is to Lewis and it's Gronk chipping Miller on his way to the flat, then the screen pass goes back to Lewis, that could work.

Not sure when Brady last ran a read-option play, but it might've been before Miller was drafted. Whenever it was, I'm doubtful that the Broncos will prep for it very heavily. OTOH, Miller himself would probably recognized it instantly.

 

[NE-VT]

Not sure when Brady last ran a read-option play

I thought you were probably right, but I was surprised. I found an article describing how the Patriots do in fact use option plays some, and have been doing to for some time:

The Patriots run another play that is reminiscent of the triple option in which Brady sprints out of the pocket, then shovels the ball back underneath to a tight end. On that play, Mullen said, Brady has the choice of a quick throw, or the option pitch underneath. He never takes the third option — running the ball himself.

Like Tebow, Patriots Sharpened Spread Offense at Florida

The Eagles used Von Miller against himself, with gifs and stuff

Perhaps we will attack Miller using these type of concepts. I believe we did it to Watt a few years back; we kept on letting Watt over pursue out of the play. Anyone recall that game, or am I mistaken?

 

[PatsFan2]

That was a great play. Watched it live then immediately replayed it to see WTF happened to All-World Corner Talib. He bit 100% on the run fake and was MIA in downfield coverage. We'd need a serious run threat to sucker the guy again. I think if we can design plays where Talib has to cover Cooksie, we'll have some success.

Talib is really good and physical against Big WR's it's those Speedy Small WR's like Cooks and Dorsett who gives him trouble. Talib can be beaten on go routes if the Speedy WR gets a free realease.

 

[Absurdly Metro]

That was a great play. Watched it live then immediately replayed it to see WTF happened to All-World Corner Talib. He bit 100% on the run fake and was MIA in downfield coverage. We'd need a serious run threat to sucker the guy again. I think if we can design plays where Talib has to cover Cooksie, we'll have some success.

Maybe design a play where Cooks takes out Talib on a pick?

 

[PatsFan2]

Von Miller is fearsome and can get there very fast also the Bronco interior is not bad our Guards have to win there one on one match-ups so Brady can step up. I expect to see plenty of James White and Rex Burkhead chipping before going into their routes. We might take some long shots on occasions but we can't make a living doing that with Miller lurking. We need another Strong game from Nate Solder.

 

[PP2]

Thanks for getting this going! Is there any chance you could tag it with "all-22"? I like being able to use the tags to quickly pull up these threads later.

Done.

 

[PP2]

2. The first play linked used a read-option concept. Miller was afraid to commit full speed at the QB or RB because he was unsure who would have it. I don't recall us ever running a read option like this. It is likely our system could handle it, BOB did it with Watson a ton.

I'm pretty sure Brady HAS run that type of read option before. I can't remember when/where but I just have this memory of him doing a quick turnaround/short toss.

The other thing we must do is to disrupt Von Miller's timing off the line. If he gets the cadence down, it's over. I'm curious to see how we will disguise our snap counts and/or falsify it.

Also check out this VERY interesting technique that RT Lane Johnson uses on Von Miller to disrupt his center of gravity:

 

[NE-VT]

I'm pretty sure Brady HAS run that type of read option before. I can't remember when/where but I just have this memory of him doing a quick turnaround/short toss.

I am also pretty confident that we still do run-pass options where the choice is between throwing and handing-off/pitching to a RB. My point was that we can't consistently run any option plays where Brady running is one of the options. This is a massive difference from a scheme perspective.

Check out this zone read option with Alex smith

This is another play where the play side DE is just not blocked. The DE cannot run up field and tackle the RB asap because he is unsure if the QB or the RB has the ball. If he commits to hard inside to the RB, he can let the QB get outside.

Of course, the only difference between this play and an RPO triple option QB sweep is that it did not look like throwing was ever an option on this one. We could do this same thing with Brady where throwing is an option, but we just have to trust Brady's quickness enough to juke around the DE if he commits hard to the RB. It also opens Brady up to get smashed, so I was simply questioning if we would do it.

The other thing we must do is to disrupt Von Miller's timing off the line. If he gets the cadence down, it's over. I'm curious to see how we will disguise our snap counts and/or falsify it.

This is a massively important point! It reminds me of the AFCG vs. Denver in the 2015 season.

Bryan Stork Was Tipping The Snap - Inside The Pylon

Also check out this VERY interesting technique that RT Lane Johnson uses on Von Miller to disrupt his center of gravity:

Wow it is amazing. I have no idea what to make of it, it happens so fast like he just punched him out. Was it close to a block in the back? I don't know much about football technique.

 

[drewskie]

Seems like RT Lane Johnson used Miller's technique against him..not sure how to describe it but it looks brilliant.

On a side note..the Eagles coaching staff deserves tons of credit for drawing up a game plan to exploit one of the better defenses this league has seen...

 

[Wheelman]

I'm pretty sure Brady HAS run that type of read option before. I can't remember when/where but I just have this memory of him doing a quick turnaround/short toss.

The other thing we must do is to disrupt Von Miller's timing off the line. If he gets the cadence down, it's over. I'm curious to see how we will disguise our snap counts and/or falsify it.

Also check out this VERY interesting technique that RT Lane Johnson uses on Von Miller to disrupt his center of gravity:

That's holding, right you ****ing dumb ref who called it on Marty B in the 2016 opener against the Cardinals. *******!

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I'm pretty sure Brady HAS run that type of read option before. I can't remember when/where but I just have this memory of him doing a quick turnaround/short toss.

The other thing we must do is to disrupt Von Miller's timing off the line. If he gets the cadence down, it's over. I'm curious to see how we will disguise our snap counts and/or falsify it.

Also check out this VERY interesting technique that RT Lane Johnson uses on Von Miller to disrupt his center of gravity:

It gets very loud at Mile High.
Maybe that could be a benefit to the Pats, in that aspect.

Also, Reich was aggressive with his plays calling.

I hope McD is a little less conservative on the play calls.
They just seem too predictable lately. At least down wise.

Trickery has always been a successful staple of NE's strength.

.....A loss to this Donkeys team would be humiliating.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Talib is really good and physical against Big WR's it's those Speedy Small WR's like Cooks and Dorsett who gives him trouble. Talib can be beaten on go routes if the Speedy WR gets a free realease.

When Talib played for us, Steve Smith (then a Panther) beat him early and he was never the same. His anger got the best of him.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

I'm pretty sure Brady HAS run that type of read option before. I can't remember when/where but I just have this memory of him doing a quick turnaround/short toss.

The other thing we must do is to disrupt Von Miller's timing off the line. If he gets the cadence down, it's over. I'm curious to see how we will disguise our snap counts and/or falsify it.

Also check out this VERY interesting technique that RT Lane Johnson uses on Von Miller to disrupt his center of gravity:

I love this! The anti-spin!

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I am also pretty confident that we still do run-pass options where the choice is between throwing and handing-off/pitching to a RB. My point was that we can't consistently run any option plays where Brady running is one of the options. This is a massive difference from a scheme perspective.

Check out this zone read option with Alex smith

This is another play where the play side DE is just not blocked. The DE cannot run up field and tackle the RB asap because he is unsure if the QB or the RB has the ball. If he commits to hard inside to the RB, he can let the QB get outside.

Of course, the only difference between this play and an RPO triple option QB sweep is that it did not look like throwing was ever an option on this one. We could do this same thing with Brady where throwing is an option, but we just have to trust Brady's quickness enough to juke around the DE if he commits hard to the RB. It also opens Brady up to get smashed, so I was simply questioning if we would do it.



This is a massively important point! It reminds me of the AFCG vs. Denver in the 2015 season.

Bryan Stork Was Tipping The Snap - Inside The Pylon



Wow it is amazing. I have no idea what to make of it, it happens so fast like he just punched him out. Was it close to a block in the back? I don't know much about football technique.

LOL. Exactly.
I'm sure momentum helped him out a bit.
I guess, it pretty much comes down to the Refs.

I'm not sure who we have this game, but let's hope we get a break, and they let them play.

It's a safe bet that Miller will be adjusting after watching this weeks film.