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Since it's trending .. how about the #1 Celtics Honk:

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Horford and Tatum are two completely different players. I am not even sure who the Sixers will have Horford (while paired with Embiid) defend when the Celts put Walker/Hayward/Brown/Tatum/Kanter on the court. Hell, we could see Simmons or Harris on Tatum/Brown more. Horford helped the Celts' defense..he was a great help defender and improved his three point shooting last year, but I would take Tatum vs. Horford ISO every day and twice on Sundays. Likewise, I would also post up Horford vs. Tatum every chance I got. Again apples and oranges therefore a wash.



Hayward in two seasons with the Celts:

11.3 ppg
3.3 apg
4.4 rpg
.527 eFG%
25.6 mpg (started 19 of 73 games)

Josh Richards' best season in 2018-9 w/ Miami:

16.6 ppg
4.1 apg
3.6 rpg
.492 eFG%
34.8 mpg (also started 73 of 73 games)

Difference: +5.3 ppg, +.8apg, -.8rpg, -.035eFG%, and +8.8mpg when comparing Richards' best season vs. Hayward's crappy 2017-2019 seasons.


Reasonable likehood? I think it is VERY reasonable to expect:

- Tatum to get better as his issue was shot selection and/or lack of aggression...two very fixable things.

- Brown to see his numbers rise with more minutes. This is a natural expectation.

- Walker to be Walker....I am even expecting a drop in his numbers across the board as he was the top dawg in Charlotte.

- Hayward to bounce back to All Star form...we could see Hayward showing signs of that late in the season and during the playoffs before the team collapsed against the Bucks.

- I don't think it is reasonable to expect us to replace what Horford did here by committee. Horford was integral to our team the last three years. However, I expect us to adjust by doing things differently (e.g. better rebounding and inside scoring w/ Kanter). Ditto for Kyrie being replaced by committee.

Overall, it is reasonable to expect the Celtics to outperform last year's team due to better chemistry and letting our young guys lead the way. In addition, Philly took a step back offensively with the departures of Butler and Redick..but got stronger defensively with a stretch big man in Horford who can cover for Embiid. Both teams were separated by TWO games last year with the last match up being won by Philly 118-115 after both Kyrie/Morris missed two shots and Butler hit a 9 footer. That was basically the difference last year.

Perhaps it helps to keep the names out if it, and consider what normally would happen with a particular type of player.

  • An all-star player that suffers a horrendous leg injury (something more than a ACL) would be expected to struggle his first year back and return somewhat-to-form his second. What do we expect from Hayward?
  • Two very young promising players have sensational years and look like future stars only to take a big step backward when a ball-dominant point guard returns and poisons team chemistry. Now that the poisonous team chemistry guard is gone, what do we expect from Tatum and Brown?
  • The poisonous chemistry point guard is replaced by a team-first high character point guard that is almost as talented. What do we expect from Walker?
In all of these cases, I don't think it is just hope, barring injury it would be surprising if Hayward, Brown, Tatum, don't take a big step forward. I would also argue that for this type of young team, a high character point guard like Walker will be at least as good as Irving.

The real loss is Horford. Kanter is not going to replace Horford (certainly on defense), so we will have to see if any replacements are forthcoming prior to the trade deadline.

However, IMHO the Horford departure was inevitable. Everybody talks about how BB always lets a player go a year early instead of a year late. I think Ainge is exactly the same way. Who are some of the most beloved players of the Ainge era? Certainly Garnett and Pierce, and they were traded for a wealth of Net picks (at age 37 and 35). Rondo was traded before his next big contract. Antoine Walker was traded before a big contract. Perkins wanted a bit too much money and he was traded. Really, the question is: which player who is either aging or due a big pay day has NOT been traded by Ainge? I can't think of any, can you all?

So: there was simply no way that Ainge was going to give Horford a max contract that would be giving him max money at age 37. And, Horford already showed a real decline last year.

Because of all that Horford has contributed to the Celtics, it was a disappointment to see him go. But with both BB and Ainge, it is all about the future instead of the past. Ainge judged that he couldn't give a max contract to an aging Horford. Let's see if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat with some type of defensive big man to complete the roster before the trade deadline.
 
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Perhaps it helps to keep the names out if it, and consider what normally would happen with a particular type of player.


  • Two very young promising players have sensational years and look like future stars only to take a big step backward when a ball-dominant point guard returns and poisons team chemistry. Now that the poisonous team chemistry guard is gone, what do we expect from Tatum and Brown?

???

How did Brown take a big step backwards?
 
He has pretty bad takes, but he’s right here. The Celtics overperformed in every aspect a year ago and took a team that didn’t stand a chance in the finals to a game 7. The Celtics would have been dropped just as bad by the Warriors. The East was also trash that year as well.

The Celtics downgraded or outright lost too much to assume that chemistry will outweighs what they subtracted in

what's your basis for 'overperform'? the young guys played well together and when irving returned, he was a wrench in their spokes......it's obvious now that Irving was gone before the season started so he was just going to serve himself......the young guys trusted him until they saw what was going on......

there's no such thing as 'overperform' they played to their abilities at the moment.
 
You could figure me out on this, very easily, if you'd just do two things:

  1. Stop mischaracterizing my positions.
  2. Start thinking analytically instead of like a Celtics honk.


it's hard when you talk out of your @ss
 
It is obvious that we disagree on how much Kyrie affected the team's development in 2018-2019, how much better Hayward/Tatum/Brown will be in 2019-2020, how Philly still has depth issues and lost some scorers they could count on, and etc... It will be an interesting match up in 2019-2020 because I don't know how either team will defend one another when the Celts go "small ball" vs. Philly's big line up.

My "emotional" expectations aren't very unreasonable. I feel that right now...talent wise...they are up there with the Bucks/Sixers and it is more than reasonable to expect the Celts to win 47+ games and make the post-season.

I am willing to make a friendly wager of 52 wins or better during the 2019-2020 season. You game? Of course, I'd require certain conditions (e.g. None of Tatum/Brown/Hayward/Walker misses more than 20 games).


Irving was already gone when the season began.......he never had any conviction for the season and his only goal was to get through the season being the clear #1.....he had to interfere with the carry over from the season before. fact is that the year before, both tatum and brown were better ball players when irving went out.....same thing this year....

It was clear while horford was still here where the future was......the celts declined defensively as well as in rebounding....horford had career lows in minutes per game and rebounding last year.....even though his offensive efficiency was at a high, his free throw attempts per game were also career lows.....he's become a face the basket guy who has steadily softened on defense.

getting rid of a guy a year to soon rather than a year too late is even more important in the NBA
 
I agree. I guess the Cs just have a bad team with no hope of getting better or even really, really good. Can’t figure Deus out. He is very wrong on this subject and I am pretty sure that the Cs will turn done heads very early on. The only net loss is Horford, but that can be mitigated. Did you see Kanter pumping up Taco? Yeah the team is gonna have much better chemistry and that will let the massive talent shine through.

Fall is not doing much this year.....he needs a ton of footwork as well as bad habits broken.....he has no business bringing the ball below his head in the paint.....he needs physical work as his stamina is pretty poor.......but there is certainly something to work with....
 
Lebroni & the Fakers just 2 days ago signed Rajon Rondo to...Not be their starting PG? Makes no sense...Quinn Cook should be able to handle PG2 duties...They're going to be slow enough as it is; Lebroni as their "PG" will make them the slowest in the league.
 
Lebroni & the Fakers just 2 days ago signed Rajon Rondo to...Not be their starting PG? Makes no sense...Quinn Cook should be able to handle PG2 duties...They're going to be slow enough as it is; Lebroni as their "PG" will make them the slowest in the league.

Theory I've seen is that Rondo would play the point when Bron Bron is on the bench. I don't think it needs to be that rigid, but it would guarantee that a passer be on the floor most of the time.
 
Fall is not doing much this year.....he needs a ton of footwork as well as bad habits broken.....he has no business bringing the ball below his head in the paint.....he needs physical work as his stamina is pretty poor.......but there is certainly something to work with....

Oh don’t get me wrong. He is fairly raw, but I liked what I saw from his pick and pop game. All I am saying is sign him, let him get work at the NBA level and I would guess he will develop into a solid rotation player. Maybe more if circumstances allow for it.
 
It works with Antetokoumpo and Bledsoe though. Also, it allows LeBron to have someone set a screen for him to switch off on someone to put pressure on the D.

LeBron is good no matter what position he plays....I hate the Lakers, but LeBron is the King for a reason....
LeBron is 3-6 in the NBA Finals. He can call himself the King as much as he likes, he's not.
 
???

How did Brown take a big step backwards?

Compared to expectations. His stock and expectations were so high after his second, breakout year that the Celtics wouldn't include him in a package for Kwahi Leonard. He played well last year, but didn't make the type of Paul George 3rd year jump that many anticipated, and it seems like his stock has fallen. I'm still hopeful for a big jump this coming year.
 
Rumor is possibly interest in the Heat bringing in Westbrook. I’m glad Whiteside is not there anymore or else it would be a very toxic locker room. That said, I’m still not sure how I feel about it. Adebayo would effectively be a center and they may have to either trade Herro or it could ****** his growth. They may also have to trade away another first rounder for him.

EDIT: Plus I’m just not a fan of Westbrick at all.
 
Rumor is possibly interest in the Heat bringing in Westbrook. I’m glad Whiteside is not there anymore or else it would be a very toxic locker room. That said, I’m still not sure how I feel about it. Adebayo would effectively be a center and they may have to either trade Herro or it could ****** his growth. They may also have to trade away another first rounder for him.

EDIT: Plus I’m just not a fan of Westbrick at all.
I know it's early but Herro has looked fantastic in Summer League play. Teams have become enamored with names rather than building teams which, a name is about all you get with Westbrook.
 
I know it's early but Herro has looked fantastic in Summer League play. Teams have become enamored with names rather than building teams which, a name is about all you get with Westbrook.
Thought sure Celtics were taking him ... but that's how rumors tend to get ingrained in us.
 
I know it's early but Herro has looked fantastic in Summer League play. Teams have become enamored with names rather than building teams which, a name is about all you get with Westbrook.
Herro has been solid in SL. His shot still needs a lot of work, but he’s off to a good start. If the Heat can keep him and Waiters, I’d be down with trading just about anyone else (and a first) for Westbrook. You’d have to think that would make them automatic contenders in the East no matter how you feel about Westbrook or Butler.
 


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