N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

You left your webcam on.

 

[randomk1]

Belichick can do it, he was good at drafting Deion Branch, David Givens, Edelman, Gronk, Hernandez, and growing Troy Brown. All of these guys were found under a totally different offensive coordinator than the current one on staff however. On the other hand, the total bust picks from 2005-2008 and 2013-now have been with the same OC on staff.

That could be true, from what've heard McDaniels has been involved in quite a few busts. Still if Bill is the GM then the fact stays the same that we have been horrible with receivers. How much of this weakness was covered up by Tom Brady over the years?

 

[RobertWeathers]

You don't think traits within the E/P system, which they specifically look for, has to do with the guys they draft? Haven't they been on record describing the unique skills a receiver needs in New England versus other systems?

They don't want to change the system because they feel it's more strategically important to have scheme/game plan flexibility and a QB that can run it with precision than simplify it and gear it towards rookie WRs being productive Year 1 or 2.

Like I said since 2009 we have seen 1st year receivers (rookies and vets) contribute in Year 1. It's not like there is a 100% failure rate with all pass-catchers. If all WRs were rookies like Harry or vets like Donald Hayes then i'd agree.

At this point, I feel the same way.

 

[50-yard-line]

I am not saying that the bad picks kill a team but the bad picks can definitely snowball. Look at the investments Bill has made in the receiver position since Harry failed. A first, a second, a nutcase receiver, and a bunch of money all went to filling the "number one" receiver spot.

Was that "bad picks" mostly, or was it Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown, Muhammed Sanu, Edelman's injury/retirement, Gronk retiring...

They were going to have to invest in WR/TE (took them long enough for that second one) in any case, even if Harry had worked out. Play a little mind game and swap the effort/production of Meyers and Harry. Pretend Meyers was the first round pick and Harry a UDFA.

What's different besides the anger over Round 1?

 

[50-yard-line]

The only one who's done "that"?

Gilmore's holding out for the second year in a row.

Meh, Gilmore was perfectly predictable and predicted. This is just a negotiation, and it sounds like an amicable one.

From everything I'm reading, he's either getting traded for a haul or he'll be back soon enough (the fines once TC officially starts are league fines, not team, and they're not negotiable, and they're very steep).

Gilmore has expressed his desire to stay here. This is an extension negotiation.

 

[Deus Irae]

Meh, Gilmore was perfectly predictable and predicted. This is just a negotiation, and it sounds like an amicable one.

From everything I'm reading, he's either getting traded for a haul or he'll be back soon enough (the fines once TC officially starts are league fines, not team, and they're not negotiable, and they're very steep).

Gilmore has expressed his desire to stay here. This is an extension negotiation.

So we just ignore the ones who "do that" when they aren't convenient to the narrative, then?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

That could be true, from what've heard McDaniels has been involved in quite a few busts. Still if Bill is the GM then the fact stays the same that we have been horrible with receivers. How much of this weakness was covered up by Tom Brady over the years?

Brady covered up a ton of offensive draft failures from 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 while McD was here. Brady was unable to cover up massive failures in Denver and St Louis when McD went there. I don't know if most here remember how crappy those 2005-2006 receivers were but it was a lot like 2019.

 

[amfootball]

Gilmore wasn't a holdout last year. He was in TC. God do your homework.

He was holding out until Bill gave him the $5 mil bump.

 

[Captain Cliche]

Ted Johnson on Tom Brady departure and the lead up to the Harry trade request: “I think the Patriots, quite honestly, have lost that thing that makes them the Patriots,”

Basically, Brady was the buffer that kept guys in line and covered up Bill’s “warts”. Now that’s he’s gone, you see players like Harry complaining publicly.

There’s more interesting thoughts but I don’t won’t to copy and paste the entire article.

Here's what rattled Patriots' ecosystem, leading to N'Keal Harry trade request

The New England Patriots had an ecosystem that worked, and it worked for two decades with Tom Brady at the helm. Since Brady's departure last offseason, Bill Belichick hasn't had the same control and pull that was apparent with Brady around. N'Keal Harry's recent trade

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Pure garbage.

Law tried to shoot his way out of town.

Branch shot his way out of town.

Mankins called out the org.

Michael Bennett acted like an idiot.

All occurred when Brady was here.

Harry is just an idiot.

Just had to chime in on this BS take from Ted Johnson.

Willie McGinest: ‘Patriot Way’ was established before Tom Brady

Patriots Hall of Famer Willie McGinest won’t jump into the Brady/Belichick debate because he doesn’t consider it a fair question.

www.bostonherald.com

Willie's take on the Patriot Way:
“Is Tom one of the greatest examples of the Patriots Way? Hell, yes. He is a product of that system. But it was in him to want to invest in all the things that were put in place.”

“I think if you talk to any player who played when that culture was created, and the foundation was set by ownership, our coaching staff, our personnel, (former personnel executive Scott) Pioli, everybody that was there, and the players that were kept from the old regime and the new players that were added through the draft and free agency,”

Before the dynasty: Inside Bill Belichick's forgotten 2000 season with the New England Patriots

During his first season in New England, the Patriots played losing football at 5-11 but managed to change the direction of the franchise.

www.espn.com

The 2000 season:

Scott Pioli, vice president of player personnel: "That year was about installing a culture. If you weren't all-in, you were out."

Chad Cascadden, a former Jets linebacker who signed with New England that spring: "The conditioning test; there were a number of different guys that did not make it. The punishment was you couldn't practice until you passed it. You had guys having to retake the test every day until they passed. It was like, 'Wow! Come on!'"

Otis Smith, cornerback: "Everybody had to abide by the same rules. If [quarterback] Drew [Bledsoe] screws up, Bill would get on him just like if Otis screws up. He would put it on the big screen and say, 'This is why we're not winning, because we're not performing at the right time. When it's your time to make a play, make that play.' That was the culture he was trying to set and it didn't matter who the player was."

Woody: "He was just weeding people out. We had a very veteran team, and it was a way of shedding dead weight, guys who had been in the league a long time. His method was, 'You know what? I'm going to put these guys through hell and there will be people who fall by the wayside. The guys who survive, those are the guys we'll ride it out with and see how they do.'"

Chatham: "If I remember correctly, and maybe I'm exaggerating, they cut down to maybe 47 players. Generally teams will cut down to 51-52, and then add a couple players from other teams. There were several of us who weren't with the team in camp, and then showed up, practiced for three days, and lined up to play against Tampa in that first game. My head was spinning."

Pioli: "The salary cap was a disaster. When we got there, we were $10.5 million over the cap and we had only 41 players under contract. Think about that. There were some weeks where we had only 51 guys on the roster, but some of that was a message. One of the things we wanted to eliminate was entitlement. You weren't handed jobs, you had to earn them."

Seely: "The first thing I remember thinking about Tom Brady was that he wasn't very good. We would have opportunity practice at the end, and we'd have a 7-on-7 drill in the red zone, or 1-on-1s. Whenever Tom was throwing the ball, we'd always bet on the defensive backs."

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was holding out until Bill gave him the $5 mil bump.

Gilly never held out.

 

[Wax Frog]

Open question for the thread - should I keep demolishing this dude? I gotta say, I’m getting a little bored here.

Popcorn was invented for this, but yeah, I think you've hit the unpopped kernel layer

 

[Kontradiction]

"People" = 203, Ice, Kontra....

Did I miss any of the misanthropes?

You guys should get together, listen to some Depeche Mode and give yourselves paper cuts.

Do you flog yourself while looking at pictures of naked men with BB’s head Photoshopped onto the bodies?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Do you flog yourself while looking at pictures of naked men with BB’s head Photoshopped onto the bodies?

roleplaying as BB got me layed!

 

[50-yard-line]

So we just ignore the ones who "do that" when they aren't convenient to the narrative, then?

Yes, it's a tragedy. Everyone predicted that Gilmore wanted more money and it would be an issue. Every sportswriter said they were going to have to reach a new deal, probably.

He's not fitting Johnson's narrative at all - hear him complaining? Me neither. Has he badmouthed the organization or the coach?

So how exactly does Gilmore's situation fit Johnson's narrative?

EDIT: PS. I didn't include it originally because I'm not the slightest bit worried about it.

 

[WinstonSmith]

roleplaying as BB got me layed!

Were you screaming at a hooker: "DO YOUR JOB!!!"?

 

[amfootball]

Gilly never held out.

He was going to last year until the $5 mil bump.
He was not showing up for the offseason until the bump.

 

[Pape]

Brady covered up a ton of offensive draft failures from 2005-2008 and 2013-2019 while McD was here. Brady was unable to cover up massive failures in Denver and St Louis when McD went there. I don't know if most here remember how crappy those 2005-2006 receivers were but it was a lot like 2019.

A ton of offensive draft failures?

Of the 33 draft picks made, 8 were offensive skill positions...

2 of those were quarterbacks...

so maybe they were building the offense via free agency vs the draft at that point? worked pretty well when they landed Moss and Welker, Amendola, etc during those years...

 

[RobertWeathers]

He was going to last year until the $5 mil bump.
He was not showing up for the offseason until the bump.

He received the extra $5m in early Sept of 2020

Are there articles saying he was going to leave the team if he wasn't paid?

 

[Pape]

He was going to last year until the $5 mil bump.
He was not showing up for the offseason until the bump.

He was "going to" ... means that he didn't

 

[amfootball]

He was "going to" ... means that he didn't

Semantics. We gave him the $5 mil so he would show up.
He is going to hold out this year if we don't give him more money or a new contract.