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N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

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The draft is not an exact science. It is a crapshoot. There are busts every year, in every round. First round all the way to the seventh. If success could be predicated on the measurables and tape prior to a draft, then there would be far fewer misses. Guys like Brady would go in the first, guys like Tony Mandarich wouldnt be first round picks.

You want to make a point that the steelers are good at drafting wide receivers? Then post the list of hits. You want to make a point that the draft isnt a crapshoot? Then dont post every receiver they picked over a 20 year period and then say, i paraphrase here "proof". It infers that all those guys were hits. That they were worth the risk Pittsburgh took in drafting them. Thats not the case.

The steelers have devoted more draft picks to the position than we have. Since 2010 they have devoted 7 wr draft picks in the first three rounds versus 3 for New England.

The Patriots have added to the wr position via free agency and trades in order to try and round out those deficiencies.
I don't know how a 7th round pick could ever be qualified as a bust. This argument that it is just quantity when drafting good receivers for the Steelers is foolish. Since 2015 they have taken 5 receivers in the first 3 rounds of the draft. All of them except Sammie Coates are good to very good receivers. Even some of their relatively recent "misses" in the draft have had careers that are light years better than Dobson, or Harry. Both Martavis Bryant and Markus Wheaton were taken later than Dobson and Harry and were significantly better players. I don't know about you but I will take a Sammie Coates and Limas Sweed if it means I am getting Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Chase Claypool, Santonio Holmes, etc.

I would rather get up to the plate 25 times and bat .500 with a grand slam and a few home runs than get up to the plate 3 times and strikeout badly all three appearances.
 


I’m still not sure fans comprehend how bad he’s been on the field.

That's honestly somewhat surprisingly. I expected really bad, but not THAT bad. Cam sure didn't do him any favors last year.
 
Is it your position that we don't need a 5th WR on the 53 man squad? I suppose that works if we have 2-3 on the Practice Squad.

If there is a 5th WR on the 53, I don't see how there is "absolutely zero spot or role for Harry".

Nope never wrote that, at all. I don't think Harry beats out Zuber or Gunner or Tre Nixon. Just cut Harry, there's no role for him here. If we need another blocker we have Asiasi or Karras.

.
 
Is it your position that we don't need a 5th WR on the 53 man squad? I suppose that works if we have 2-3 on the Practice Squad.

If there is a 5th WR on the 53, I don't see how there is "absolutely zero spot or role for Harry".
I wouldn't say "zero" spot but even before this little Tweet I would have said he is battling for the 5th receiver spot with Zuber.
 
I wouldn't say "zero" spot but even before this little Tweet I would have said he is battling for the 5th receiver spot with Zuber.
I agree that Harry is battling for the 5th WR spot.; I would say with Zuber and a few others.
 
I think that the most prudent thing to do is to go into the pre-season with Harry, as he has little to no trade vaule at this time. Maybe he shows someting in preseason, or another team has a rash of injuries. But right now, the Pats would be lucky to get a 6th round pick (in the aggregate, meaning they might get a 5th but have to ship a 7th round pick with Harry) at best for him.

Harry might make the team just on finacials alone, as cutting him excellerates his contract and adds another 2+ million in dead money. So if you have to pay him anyways, might as well keep him on the roster and cut say Zuber which would save the Pats all of his $780,000 salary.
 
I don't know how a 7th round pick could ever be qualified as a bust. This argument that it is just quantity when drafting good receivers for the Steelers is foolish. Since 2015 they have taken 5 receivers in the first 3 rounds of the draft. All of them except Sammie Coates are good to very good receivers. Even some of their relatively recent "misses" in the draft have had careers that are light years better than Dobson, or Harry. Both Martavis Bryant and Markus Wheaton were taken later than Dobson and Harry and were significantly better players. I don't know about you but I will take a Sammie Coates and Limas Sweed if it means I am getting Emmanuel Sanders, Antonio Brown, Mike Wallace, Chase Claypool, Santonio Holmes, etc.

I would rather get up to the plate 25 times and bat .500 with a grand slam and a few home runs than get up to the plate 3 times and strikeout badly all three appearances.

The magnitude of the draft pick is irrelevant. You are just focusing on one particular aspect/position. Its the whole thing. The steelers just dont draft wr's.

The draft is not a science. So they can be better than average at one position vs another.

Its a guessing game. ie a crapshoot. Thats the whole point. if you cant understand that, then thats on you.
 
The draft is not a science. Its a guessing game. ie a crapshoot. if you cant understand that, then thats on you.
It may be a "guessing game" but when some teams are "guessing" at certain positions far better than others it is hard to just call it luck. If you cant understand that, then thats on you.
 
It may be a "guessing game" but when some teams are "guessing" at certain positions far better than others it is hard to just call it luck. If you cant understand that, then thats on you.
I do understand that. Even teams which are better than average at picking certain positions have misses with both high picks and low picks.

so i will say it again, s-- l--o--w--l--y___ s--o ___ y--o--u ___ m--i--g--h--t __ a--c--t--u--a--l--l--y ___ u--n--d--e--r--s--t--a--n-d " i t s a c r a p s h o o t"
 
It may be a "guessing game" but when some teams are "guessing" at certain positions far better than others it is hard to just call it luck. If you cant understand that, then thats on you.
This. I mean everything has an ounce of luck involved, but the good ones get it right a lot of the time. Some don't. If you want to talk defensive side of the ball. Bill is a wiz...except he reaches for safeties at times, but receiver, nope just not his bag.
 
The magnitude of the draft pick is irrelevant. You are just focusing on one particular aspect/position. Its the whole thing. The steelers just dont draft wr's.

The draft is not a science. So they can be better than average at one position vs another.

Its a guessing game. ie a crapshoot. Thats the whole point. if you cant understand that, then thats on you.
How exactly is "the magnitude of the draft pick is irrelevant"? A bad pick in the early rounds can set a team back at that position for 2-3 years (maybe even longer depending on the position. If you're planning your roster and you say "okay we have player X ready to start at (blank) position" and then guess what he can't start/play well at that position then what do you really have? By the time you wait and out and confirm that guy can't play you're likely getting subpar play in that position and you have burned a couple years waiting on him to show up.

This whole "the draft is a crapshoot" thing is nonsense. Millions and millions of dollars are spent on the draft each year between scouting, interviews, workouts, investments into said player's training/contracts. It may not be a science but this isn't just a bunch of guys throwing darts against a wall.
 
I'm not going to keep arguing X's and O's with you

I wouldn’t either if I were you. That’s not a winning proposition since you already confused the X and Z receivers.

because at the end of the day all the WR's need position flexibility and can play anywhere.
That being said...



Watching these highlights it's evident from the fact Byrd had a slot receiver in between him and the QB roughly 80% of the time and played off the line of scrimmage,


You mean the highlights that all start after the snap? Christ. Go review the All-22. Having a slot receiver between him and the LoS doesn’t mean anything, so I’m not sure why you’re even going there. Byrd was often aligned away from the strength of the formation and on the LoS. Did he play off the line as well? Sure. But the majority of his snaps came as either the X or the Y.

he played flanker more often than not. Anyone can play anywhere obviously, but keeping your 180 pound speed WR's untouched from the jam is just smart football.

1) The Z can still get jammed. Aligned off the LoS doesn’t mean they get a free release.

2) Amendola, Dorsett, and Edelman also aligned at the X or Y. According to your logic here, lining them up there was dumb football.

3) Considering Harry’s inability to beat press with any sort of consistency, and coupling that with your logic above, why in God’s name would you want him as the X? Why did he struggle with beating press as the Z?

TE's have been a need for two years, you act like you're revealing the mystery of the pyramids. The team was also in cap hell last year so signing a gaggle of (expensive) free agents wasn't going to happen either way. They drafted two TE's last year instead because rookies are cheap, so upgrading the position was well known to both the team and fans alike.

Because the two they drafted didn’t show any immediate promise. If they had, there would have been no need to back the Brinks truck up a year later for the same position.

Drafted players or no they have an obscene amount of resources to spend this year by design... not because the money appeared out of the aether. The second most expensive player they signed was a defensive end, not a weapon.

Cool. They gave out a total of $77,500,000 of guaranteed money to weapons - 2 TEs and 2 WRs. But keep acting like weapons weren’t a big need and Chatham’s take was a good one. The facts disagree.

They brought Byrd in last year as a free agent for peanuts, they brought Agholor in as a free agent this year to upgrade his position because they could afford it. Bourne... he's got paid a middling deal with a team out after year one... he's a middling talent so it makes sense. Edelman is gone, they need to provide depth. Every year they bring what... ten WR's to camp... you act like this is a declaration of something... there's 90 players here.

They brought in Agholor and Bourne when they already had Meyers and Harry. Meyers has played himself into a starting role this year. Harry has not. Harry was a first round pick. If Harry was producing or at least showing promise, there would be no need to sign two receivers to go along with two TEs. Harry sucks. That’s the common link.

When it's all whittled down to the final roster they'll keep 5-6 WR's. Harry just opened up a roster spot with his agent running his mouth. Otherwise the odds were the entire WR room was going to be made up of the same players that were here last year and Agholor.

Yeah, aside from three brand new faces in the WR room, it’s exactly like last year.

Even without Harry this is true. On the outside chance Tre Nixon is a revelation and knocks Bourne off the roster, it will be hilarious to watch your heads explode when the entire room is made up of homegrown talent.

Why would my head explode? I was very complimentary of Nixon in my review of him after he was drafted. I’d love it if he stuck. I’m guessing you’re forgetting Agholor, though, when you say that “the entire room is made up of homegrown talent,” though. Thats understandable. You’re contorting yourself into so many different pretzels here that I can see why you’re losing track.

I’m not sure why you think my head would explode over a WR room of mostly homegrown talent. I’ve been posting regularly on this forum for 15 years now and am probably close to 60,000 posts. You think that’s just a ruse or a cover because I secretly hate this team? That’s a Chatham-style hot take

Cam sucked last year, they ranked second to last in pass attempts... you blaming weapons for the worst starting QB in the NFL is a case of the tail wagging the dog.

Cam sucked and so did the receivers and TEs he had to throw to also sucked. Both things are true. That one is true does not mean the other is false and vice versa. If the weapons weren’t an issue, the guaranteed money would have went elsewhere

All the best QB's in the NFL can move the ball and pass with "average," we see it all the time, especially when the offensive line and RB's are exceptional.

Okay.
 
I do understand that. Even teams which are better than average at picking certain positions have misses with both high picks and low picks.

so i will say it again, s-- l--o--w--l--y___ s--o ___ y--o--u ___ m--i--g--h--t __ a--c--t--u--a--l--l--y ___ u--n--d--e--r--s--t--a--n-d " i t s a c r a p s h o o t"
Okay so playing QB is a crapshoot. Hiring a good coach is a crapshoot. The entire world is just a crapshoot based on your criteria. Tell me how it is a crapshoot.
 
I think that the most prudent thing to do is to go into the pre-season with Harry, as he has little to no trade vaule at this time. Maybe he shows someting in preseason, or another team has a rash of injuries. But right now, the Pats would be lucky to get a 6th round pick (in the aggregate, meaning they might get a 5th but have to ship a 7th round pick with Harry) at best for him.

Harry might make the team just on finacials alone, as cutting him excellerates his contract and adds another 2+ million in dead money. So if you have to pay him anyways, might as well keep him on the roster and cut say Zuber which would save the Pats all of his $780,000 salary.
Since they have the space now might be better to cut their losses now w him.
 
You have the patience of a Saint to keep responding to Wozzy.
I just like to see people squirm in the face of facts. Especially facts that have already happened.
 
How exactly is "the magnitude of the draft pick is irrelevant"? A bad pick in the early rounds can set a team back at that position for 2-3 years (maybe even longer depending on the position. If you're planning your roster and you say "okay we have player X ready to start at (blank) position" and then guess what he can't start/play well at that position then what do you really have? By the time you wait and out and confirm that guy can't play you're likely getting subpar play in that position and you have burned a couple years waiting on him to show up.

This whole "the draft is a crapshoot" thing is nonsense. Millions and millions of dollars are spent on the draft each year between scouting, interviews, workouts, investments into said player's training/contracts. It may not be a science but this isn't just a bunch of guys throwing darts against a wall.
Yeah once again this....they are not throwing darts at a dart board. Maybe in the later rounds they take a few chances, but they know all about these guys and their job is to research him to the point where they should have an idea of how they would be at the next level. No you are not going to get it 100 percent of the time, but the good ones get it more than the bad ones.
 
Okay so playing QB is a crapshoot. Hiring a good coach is a crapshoot. The entire world is just a crapshoot based on your criteria. Tell me how it is a crapshoot.


Tell me how its not
 
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