N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

[203Pat]

Maybe it's the draftnik in me but I wouldn't get too worked up over a bust. It's not replacing him or being trigger shy that bothers me. You miss on one in the first, make up for it in the 3rd. I suppose we did that with Meyers but it's been a long, painstaking road.

The Harry miss was big for me because of the ripple effect. Because Harry was hurt/couldn't play they sunk $9 mill into one game for AB and burned a 2nd round pick on Sanu and we still had no one to play receiver last year. That is a first, a second, $4.75 mill in dead cap for AB in 2020, and whatever Harry was making. That is a lot of resources tied up in a position to still really have no one in.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Harry miss was big for me because of the ripple effect. Because Harry was hurt/couldn't play they sunk $9 mill into one game for AB and burned a 2nd round pick on Sanu and we still had no one to play receiver last year. That is a first, a second, $4.75 mill in dead cap for AB in 2020, and whatever Harry was making. That is a lot of resources tied up in a position to still really have no one in.

I dunno...I think they were going after AB anyways. They started conversations with Gruden re: AB back in August of 2019 but hated his contract terms and he was not willing to renegotiate then.

The Sanu deal no question was due to Harry's sluggish start/injuries

 

[203Pat]

Manny sanders wasnt that good... IN PITTSBURGH ... he didnt explode until he hooked up with Manning in Denver... Even if Im incorrect in that assessment, it doesnt invalidate the whole analysis - which is more than 50% of the vaunted Steelers draft selections have been out and out busts... 50% success rate = crapshoot. Which is the whole point.

Lol what? He was a third rounder who improved every year and was buried on the depth chart between the other excellent receivers that Steelers had already selected. Also how are you weighing your "busts"? Does a 5th round "bust" have the same weight as a 2nd round bust?

 

[203Pat]

I dunno...I think they were going after AB anyways. They started conversations with Gruden re: AB back in August of 2019 but hated his contract terms and he was not willing to renegotiate then.

The Sanu deal no question was due to Harry's sluggish start/injuries

May be true but I feel like if Harry looked like AJ Brown or DK Metcalf in their rookie years they wouldn't have paid $9 mill when AB torched his way out of Oakland.

 

[RobertWeathers]

May be true but I feel like if Harry looked like AJ Brown or DK Metcalf in their rookie years they wouldn't have paid $9 mill when AB torched his way out of Oakland.

Could be. Who knows.

 

[Sicilian]

The Harry miss was big for me because of the ripple effect. Because Harry was hurt/couldn't play they sunk $9 mill into one game for AB and burned a 2nd round pick on Sanu and we still had no one to play receiver last year. That is a first, a second, $4.75 mill in dead cap for AB in 2020, and whatever Harry was making. That is a lot of resources tied up in a position to still really have no one in.

It was a pretty awful spiral of things that happened, compounded by having two starters out on the OL (with another two likely playing hurt) after their veteran depth signings decided to retire in training camp. Wherever the blame lies (Be it Belichick, bad luck, or a combination), I don't fault Brady for feeling emotionally exhausted after that season. It was a revolving door at just about every position on offense.

 

[Pape]

Lol what? He was a third rounder who improved every year and was buried on the depth chart between the other excellent receivers that Steelers had already selected. Also how are you weighing your "busts"? Does a 5th round "bust" have the same weight as a 2nd round bust?

The draft is not an exact science. It is a crapshoot. There are busts every year, in every round. First round all the way to the seventh. If success could be predicated on the measurables and tape prior to a draft, then there would be far fewer misses. Guys like Brady would go in the first, guys like Tony Mandarich wouldnt be first round picks.

You want to make a point that the steelers are good at drafting wide receivers? Then post the list of hits. You want to make a point that the draft isnt a crapshoot? Then dont post every receiver they picked over a 20 year period and then say, i paraphrase here "proof". It infers that all those guys were hits. That they were worth the risk Pittsburgh took in drafting them. Thats not the case.

The steelers have devoted more draft picks to the position than we have. Since 2010 they have devoted 7 wr draft picks in the first three rounds versus 3 for New England.

The Patriots have added to the wr position via free agency and trades in order to try and round out those deficiencies.

 

[Kontradiction]

The Pats typically used the flanker position for their speed guys because the WR's they had outside of Randy Moss or Donte Stallworth (Cooks, Dorsett, Byrd, Patten) were undersized speedsters, as flankers they could play off the line of scrimmage and avoid the jam which made sense.

No they didn’t. You might want to double check that. They’ve traditionally lined the speedsters up at the X. That’s the split-end. That’s where Agholor is going. Bourne and Meyers will man the Y and Z receiver positions, depending on personnel grouping of course. Could also be one of the TEs.

Agholor is a bigger speed receiver, he's the one who is going to stress the opposing defense with speed.

That’s why he’ll be the X.

In my comment you replied to I didn't even mention Harry, like not once, I spoke about the WR's who were here and who wanted to be here.

Uhhhh… you replied to me first. Not the other way around. The post for reference…

N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

Lazar… the guy who said Sanu was a route running genius who all the other young WR’s could learn from in camp right before he was cut lol? Still a better film reviewer than Matt Chatham.

www.patsfans.com

You then responded to a comment about Lazar being a better film reviewer than Chatham with this…

N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

Lazar… the guy who said Sanu was a route running genius who all the other young WR’s could learn from in camp right before he was cut lol? Still a better film reviewer than Matt Chatham.

www.patsfans.com

So yes, you did, indeed, mention Harry. You just didn’t type out the words “Harry.” You just called him “a player” and inferred he was open… in a thread about Harry.

You spend an awful lot of time obsessing over Harry.

He’s mentally soft trash who sucks at the game of football. When talking about a team that’s won 6 Super Bowls in the last 20 years, players like Harry tend to get talked about more.

Meyers started the season hurt, that's why they kept him from playing, he missed the last week of camp.

But that’s not what we’re discussing here. He was still behind Harry in the snap count even when he came back and both were healthy. He took Harry’s snaps later in the season because, and I know this will be a mind-blowing concept to consider so please brace yourself, he was more productive. Period. End of story.

In the 49ers game Cam threw Harry a hospital ball that gave him a sever concussion... so yeah, his snaps went down that game and the following two games. It's not some nefarious plot to play Harry and not play Meyers, in fact when Harry came back Meyers led all WR's in snaps but they also played Harry 60% of the snaps, the following week 75%... he wasn't sitting on the sideline watching.

Harry played 75% of the snaps against Houston, did nothing, then didn’t cross the 65% mark until the final week of the season. I’m sure this question won’t get answered because it blows up your argument, but I’ll ask it anyway. If Meyers didn’t take his snaps, then who did? It wasn’t Byrd. Two completely different skill sets. It wasn’t Edelman. It wasn’t Gunnar. It wasn’t Asiasi or Keene. Who did he lose snaps to, then?

The Pats went out and signed TE's, the WR's are mostly the same.

No, they’re not. They went out and signed both TEs and WRs. Weapons. Chatham’s “weaponz” argument on Twitter was terrible at the time and it didn’t age well almost immediately into FA. He took an L.

If Edelman hadn't retired, Agholor for Byrd would be the only change that actually happened. Bourne has a one year out for the team if he sucks, or if they have better cheaper options, he isn't making much money and provides depth now that Jules is gone assuming he even makes the team.

That’s highly doubtful. Edelman was on his last legs. Two WRs were still needed because of that and the fact that Harry hadn’t shown any noticeable improvement.

This notion of wholesale changes at WR is a myth.

Two new WRs were signed and that’s a myth? Sir, I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Even if you want to discount the WR signings, the TE signings (one year after burning two picks on TEs) prove that Chatham’s takes were terrible. Then they went out and drafted another RB. Weapons were lacking. Weapons were needed. This was obvious to everyone but the homers. It was obvious to BB, too. So he addressed it

Agholor is an upgrade to Byrd, he's bigger and stronger... considering Cam can't throw it in the ocean, bigger is better.

The biggest need on the team was a QB, hopefully they have filled that need. Cam isn't going to be that much better due to weapons. If anything they'll be just good enough to eke out wins despite Cam.

Agreed on the biggest need being a QB. But that’s obvious. Cam may not even win the job out of camp. The second biggest need after that were WRs and TEs on the offensive side of the ball. That’s why we addressed it immediately on Day 1. You’re twisting yourself into pretzels instead of acknowledging facts.

 

[JMC00]

The draft is not an exact science. It is a crapshoot. There are busts every year, in every round. First round all the way to the seventh. If success could be predicated on the measurables and tape prior to a draft, then there would be far fewer misses. Guys like Brady would go in the first, guys like Tony Mandarich wouldnt be first round picks.

You want to make a point that the steelers are good at drafting wide receivers? Then post the list of hits. You want to make a point that the draft isnt a crapshoot? Then dont post every receiver they picked over a 20 year period and then say, i paraphrase here "proof". It infers that all those guys were hits. That they were worth the risk Pittsburgh took in drafting them. Thats not the case.

The steelers have devoted more draft picks to the position than we have. Since 2010 they have devoted 7 wr draft picks in the first three rounds versus 3 for New England.

The Patriots have added to the wr position via free agency and trades in order to try and round out those deficiencies.

The "steelers always nail WR" is funny because it focuses on one aspect. The person saying it should also post the DBs they've drafted in the same time frame. steelers getting guys like Claypool and Johnson are about as equivalent as the Pats getting Jonathan Jones & JC Jackson. Except steelers used a 2nd & 3rd on those guys and Pats signed Jones & Jackson as UDFA. or how about the Pats just killing it at OL, with Thuney, Mason, Andrews and Onewnu, how do the steelers compare in that regard?

That's my problem with that argument steelers use more resources on WRs while the Pats use more on OL and DBs. Right now the steelers projected OL has 1 player that they drafted or signed as an UDFA that has started more than 4 games for them. Meanwhile the Pats projected OL 4 out of 5 were drafted by them and last year the whole starting 5 were drafted (or UDFA) players by the Pats and only 1 of them was drafted higher than the the 3rd round. Wynn was a 1st, Thuney was a 3rd, Andrews was an UDFA, Mason was a 4th and Onwenu was a 6th

 

[amfootball]

No they didn’t. You might want to double check that. They’ve traditionally lined the speedsters up at the X. That’s the split-end. That’s where Agholor is going. Bourne and Meyers will man the Y and Z receiver positions, depending on personnel grouping of course. Could also be one of the TEs.



That’s why he’ll be the X.



Uhhhh… you replied to me first. Not the other way around. The post for reference…

N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

Lazar… the guy who said Sanu was a route running genius who all the other young WR’s could learn from in camp right before he was cut lol? Still a better film reviewer than Matt Chatham.

www.patsfans.com

You then responded to a comment about Lazar being a better film reviewer than Chatham with this…

N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

Lazar… the guy who said Sanu was a route running genius who all the other young WR’s could learn from in camp right before he was cut lol? Still a better film reviewer than Matt Chatham.

www.patsfans.com

So yes, you did, indeed, mention Harry. You just didn’t type out the words “Harry.” You just called him “a player” and inferred he was open… in a thread about Harry.



He’s mentally soft trash who sucks at the game of football. When talking about a team that’s won 6 Super Bowls in the last 20 years, players like Harry tend to get talked about more.



But that’s not what we’re discussing here. He was still behind Harry in the snap count even when he came back and both were healthy. He took Harry’s snaps later in the season because, and I know this will be a mind-blowing concept to consider so please brace yourself, he was more productive. Period. End of story.



Harry played 75% of the snaps against Houston, did nothing, then didn’t cross the 65% mark until the final week of the season. I’m sure this question won’t get answered because it blows up your argument, but I’ll ask it anyway. If Meyers didn’t take his snaps, then who did? It wasn’t Byrd. Two completely different skill sets. It wasn’t Edelman. It wasn’t Gunnar. It wasn’t Asiasi or Keene. Who did he lose snaps to, then?



No, they’re not. They went out and signed both TEs and WRs. Weapons. Chatham’s “weaponz” argument on Twitter was terrible at the time and it didn’t age well almost immediately into FA. He took an L.



That’s highly doubtful. Edelman was on his last legs. Two WRs were still needed because of that and the fact that Harry hadn’t shown any noticeable improvement.



Two new WRs were signed and that’s a myth? Sir, I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Even if you want to discount the WR signings, the TE signings (one year after burning two picks on TEs) prove that Chatham’s takes were terrible. Then they went out and drafted another RB. Weapons were lacking. Weapons were needed. This was obvious to everyone but the homers. It was obvious to BB, too. So he addressed it



Agreed on the biggest need being a QB. But that’s obvious. Cam may not even win the job out of camp. The second biggest need after that were WRs and TEs on the offensive side of the ball. That’s why we addressed it immediately on Day 1. You’re twisting yourself into pretzels instead of acknowledging facts.

You have the patience of a Saint to keep responding to Wozzy.

 

[Pape]

The "steelers always nail WR" is funny because it focuses on one aspect. The person saying it should also post the DBs they've drafted in the same time frame. steelers getting guys like Claypool and Johnson are about as equivalent as the Pats getting Jonathan Jones & JC Jackson. Except steelers used a 2nd & 3rd on those guys and Pats signed Jones & Jackson as UDFA. or how about the Pats just killing it at OL, with Thuney, Mason, Andrews and Onewnu, how do the steelers compare in that regard?

That's my problem with that argument steelers use more resources on WRs while the Pats use more on OL and DBs. Right now the steelers projected OL has 1 player that they drafted or signed as an UDFA that has started more than 4 games for them. Meanwhile the Pats projected OL 4 out of 5 were drafted by them and last year the whole starting 5 were drafted (or UDFA) players by the Pats and only 1 of them was drafted higher than the the 3rd round. Wynn was a 1st, Thuney was a 3rd, Andrews was an UDFA, Mason was a 4th and Onwenu was a 6th

you ae correct... thats the bottom line

teams have strengths and weaknesses in drafting, free agency, etc... everything is a chance, hardly anything is a certainty no matter how many resources you throw at it

 

[Sicilian]

The "steelers always nail WR" is funny because it focuses on one aspect. The person saying it should also post the DBs they've drafted in the same time frame. steelers getting guys like Claypool and Johnson are about as equivalent as the Pats getting Jonathan Jones & JC Jackson. Except steelers used a 2nd & 3rd on those guys and Pats signed Jones & Jackson as UDFA. or how about the Pats just killing it at OL, with Thuney, Mason, Andrews and Onewnu, how do the steelers compare in that regard?

That's my problem with that argument steelers use more resources on WRs while the Pats use more on OL and DBs. Right now the steelers projected OL has 1 player that they drafted or signed as an UDFA that has started more than 4 games for them. Meanwhile the Pats projected OL 4 out of 5 were drafted by them and last year the whole starting 5 were drafted (or UDFA) players by the Pats and only 1 of them was drafted higher than the the 3rd round. Wynn was a 1st, Thuney was a 3rd, Andrews was an UDFA, Mason was a 4th and Onwenu was a 6th

It's also always the Steelers that are brought up... which leads me to believe that their success is an outlier, more so than the Pats failures are.

 

[fnordcircle]

Like this comment in 3 years when Mac throws a game winner to N'Keal. Book it.

 

[Wozzy]

No they didn’t. You might want to double check that. They’ve traditionally lined the speedsters up at the X. That’s the split-end. That’s where Agholor is going. Bourne and Meyers will man the Y and Z receiver positions, depending on personnel grouping of course. Could also be one of the TEs.



That’s why he’ll be the X.



Uhhhh… you replied to me first. Not the other way around. The post for reference…

N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

Lazar… the guy who said Sanu was a route running genius who all the other young WR’s could learn from in camp right before he was cut lol? Still a better film reviewer than Matt Chatham.

www.patsfans.com

You then responded to a comment about Lazar being a better film reviewer than Chatham with this…

N’Keal Harry Requests Trade

Lazar… the guy who said Sanu was a route running genius who all the other young WR’s could learn from in camp right before he was cut lol? Still a better film reviewer than Matt Chatham.

www.patsfans.com

So yes, you did, indeed, mention Harry. You just didn’t type out the words “Harry.” You just called him “a player” and inferred he was open… in a thread about Harry.



He’s mentally soft trash who sucks at the game of football. When talking about a team that’s won 6 Super Bowls in the last 20 years, players like Harry tend to get talked about more.



But that’s not what we’re discussing here. He was still behind Harry in the snap count even when he came back and both were healthy. He took Harry’s snaps later in the season because, and I know this will be a mind-blowing concept to consider so please brace yourself, he was more productive. Period. End of story.



Harry played 75% of the snaps against Houston, did nothing, then didn’t cross the 65% mark until the final week of the season. I’m sure this question won’t get answered because it blows up your argument, but I’ll ask it anyway. If Meyers didn’t take his snaps, then who did? It wasn’t Byrd. Two completely different skill sets. It wasn’t Edelman. It wasn’t Gunnar. It wasn’t Asiasi or Keene. Who did he lose snaps to, then?



No, they’re not. They went out and signed both TEs and WRs. Weapons. Chatham’s “weaponz” argument on Twitter was terrible at the time and it didn’t age well almost immediately into FA. He took an L.



That’s highly doubtful. Edelman was on his last legs. Two WRs were still needed because of that and the fact that Harry hadn’t shown any noticeable improvement.



Two new WRs were signed and that’s a myth? Sir, I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Even if you want to discount the WR signings, the TE signings (one year after burning two picks on TEs) prove that Chatham’s takes were terrible. Then they went out and drafted another RB. Weapons were lacking. Weapons were needed. This was obvious to everyone but the homers. It was obvious to BB, too. So he addressed it



Agreed on the biggest need being a QB. But that’s obvious. Cam may not even win the job out of camp. The second biggest need after that were WRs and TEs on the offensive side of the ball. That’s why we addressed it immediately on Day 1. You’re twisting yourself into pretzels instead of acknowledging facts.

I'm not going to keep arguing X's and O's with you because at the end of the day all the WR's need position flexibility and can play anywhere. That being said...



Watching these highlights it's evident from the fact Byrd had a slot receiver in between him and the QB roughly 80% of the time and played off the line of scrimmage, he played flanker more often than not. Anyone can play anywhere obviously, but keeping your 180 pound speed WR's untouched from the jam is just smart football.

TE's have been a need for two years, you act like you're revealing the mystery of the pyramids. The team was also in cap hell last year so signing a gaggle of (expensive) free agents wasn't going to happen either way. They drafted two TE's last year instead because rookies are cheap, so upgrading the position was well known to both the team and fans alike. Drafted players or no they have an obscene amount of resources to spend this year by design... not because the money appeared out of the aether. The second most expensive player they signed was a defensive end, not a weapon.

They brought Byrd in last year as a free agent for peanuts, they brought Agholor in as a free agent this year to upgrade his position because they could afford it. Bourne... he's got paid a middling deal with a team out after year one... he's a middling talent so it makes sense. Edelman is gone, they need to provide depth. Every year they bring what... ten WR's to camp... you act like this is a declaration of something... there's 90 players here.

When it's all whittled down to the final roster they'll keep 5-6 WR's. Harry just opened up a roster spot with his agent running his mouth. Otherwise the odds were the entire WR room was going to be made up of the same players that were here last year and Agholor. Even without Harry this is true. On the outside chance Tre Nixon is a revelation and knocks Bourne off the roster, it will be hilarious to watch your heads explode when the entire room is made up of homegrown talent.

Cam sucked last year, they ranked second to last in pass attempts... you blaming weapons for the worst starting QB in the NFL is a case of the tail wagging the dog. All the best QB's in the NFL can move the ball and pass with "average," we see it all the time, especially when the offensive line and RB's are exceptional.

 

[Wax Frog]

You have the patience of a Saint to keep responding to Wozzy.

Saint Kontra!

 

[patsinthesnow]

I’m still not sure fans comprehend how bad he’s been on the field.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

The Pats (Ernie) probably studied every NFL position like an economist/hedge-fund analyst, looked at expected value/production versus what it would take to draft or spend in free agency, and breadth of alternative options. I think devaluing the WR position is the right move in lieu of spending more general draft capital on both sides of the trenches. There are just fewer huge guys who are talented. There are a lot of 5'8-6'0 receivers who can step in and give adequate production, and the league has set up passing rules to favor passing. The option-route scheme allows for guys to get open even if you're not a physical freak.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I’m still not sure fans comprehend how bad he’s been on the field.

Every stat shown puts this bust last or second to last out of hundreds of receivers. Yards per target, % open against single man coverage, etc. NKeal Harry SUCKS....

 

[oldrover]

 

[mgteich]

Pats have a lot of decent pass catchers now and no role for Harry here. Agholor, Meyers, Bourne, Henry, Jonnu, James White, that's 6 guys which is plenty not to mention Gunner's growth. Absolutely zero spot or role for Harry. This is a very different improved group of pass catchers. C-ya NKeal.

.

Is it your position that we don't need a 5th WR on the 53 man squad? I suppose that works if we have 2-3 on the Practice Squad.

If there is a 5th WR on the 53, I don't see how there is "absolutely zero spot or role for Harry".