Patriots Rumor Michael Lombardi: The Pats are a sleeper team to get Dansby

[spacecrime]

Yeah, they signed those guys while working to develop their own talent.

Or are you suggesting BB and Co couldn't have done anything with the linebackers drafted in the past few years?

Are you suggesting that BB didn't win three superbowls with older LBs?

Meanwhile, the 49ers, Lions, Cardinals, Redskins, etc etc do exactly as you say BB should do.

Why?

We all have our draft binkies, and play what-might-have-been. But what-was was pretty damn good, and if that philosophy only brings 3 SB victories in a decade, I'm not inclined to say if-only.

 

[the wrothbroughterer]

Sign him up. In baseball you build the core of your team through the middle, and I think the same is true for football. It's safe to assume that Wilfork will be on the team next year or will supply ample compensation in draft picks that the Pats can draft a NT high and still address their other needs in the draft. Given that and the relative strength of at the Safety position with Meriweather and hopefully a more involved Chung, and an already very good LB in Mayo, all this team needs is an ILB to finish off building the core of what could be a much improved defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Peppers or a legit pass rusher can improve our entire secondary. In a pass driven league, I'll take an improvement to our pass defense over what Dansby can provide.

I do agree that in a pass happy league that a pass rush is the most important thing in your front seven these days, but can Dansby be a force up the middle? Since the Cards went to the 3-4, he hasn't been as much of an inside pass rush threat.

Personally, I would rather have an elite outside pass rusher and a solid to average ILB than an elite ILB and a solid to average OLB. Ideally you want elite at both positions, but in a pass happy league the outside rusher is more important.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

The Pats need a real run stuffing LB and I don't know if Dansby is that guy. When I watch him play, he's like a bigger version of Mayo (just tackles guys but nothing spectacular).

 

[condon84]

I do agree that in a pass happy league that a pass rush is the most important thing in your front seven these days, but can Dansby be a force up the middle? Since the Cards went to the 3-4, he hasn't been as much of an inside pass rush threat.

Personally, I would rather have an elite outside pass rusher and a solid to average ILB than an elite ILB and a solid to average OLB. Ideally you want elite at both positions, but in a pass happy league the outside rusher is more important.

I'm also not sold on Dansby as a player worth the contract he seems like he's going to get. Everytime I watch the Cards, he doesn't stick out as someone I would want to pay a lot of money to. He looks like a solid player, but not a FA worth a big contract. To tell you the truth, Rey Malealuga looked like a better MILB fit next to Mayo than but Bill passed him up several times. IMO, I think Bill is content with Guyton as our ILB next to Mayo.

 

[spacecrime]

First, just because a player excels in one system doesn't mean they would excel in another. Just because a player they pass on turns out to be a great player in the system they are drafted into, that doesn't mean that they would work in the Pats' system.

That's exactly right. We tend to treat players like interchangeable machine parts, working the same on any team and the only judgement to make is based on stats.

This is a quote from an article posted in the draft forum on how the ravens build their draft board:

“Everyone in that room knows what a Raven is,” Hortiz said, crediting Newsome with creating that vision. “We want tough, fast, smart football players. We want guys who play hard and will fit into our locker room. It’s easy to eliminate guys.”

It is easy for THEM to eliminate 75% of players from even being considered for their board. Ravens fans will be like us: forever whining that the Ravens didn't draft this guy or that guy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pats are like the Yankees this year. They are in on everyone even though they may no be.

Yup, the player's agent will insert them into the discussion whether the Pats are interested or not, because the Pats are a successful, big-market team, and their presence can only drive the player's price up.

 

[DonBlackmon55]

Peppers or a legit pass rusher can improve our entire secondary. In a pass driven league, I'll take an improvement to our pass defense over what Dansby can provide.

Good points....Opposing Offenses have to account for Peppers as DE(not going into OLB discussion here), or double him. That opens up opportunities for others on DL, as well hopefully improves the secondary. Prime example is Giants....with pathetic DL play this year, their secondary was toast.

The key items the FP and BB have to ask are
1. Value of Peppers over Dansby (price and length)
2. Is Peppers really motivated or will go through the motions after his payday
3. Will Peppers + stout run stuffing ILB(draft or FA) address many of these issues which are interconnected (pass rush, pressure, D secondary play etc)

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm also not sold on Dansby as a player worth the contract he seems like he's going to get. Everytime I watch the Cards, he doesn't stick out as someone I would want to pay a lot of money to. He looks like a solid player, but not a FA worth a big contract. To tell you the truth, Rey Malealuga looked like a better MILB fit next to Mayo than but Bill passed him up several times. IMO, I think Bill is content with Guyton as our ILB next to Mayo.

I certainly hope not. That would, without a shadow of a doubt, be the first big mistake of the new season. Guyton is a third down ILB. Good in coverage but not much else.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I certainly hope not. That would, without a shadow of a doubt, be the first big mistake of the new season. Guyton is a third down ILB. Good in coverage but not much else.

Elsewhere, in response to a fellow poster advocating drafting Weatherspoon to replace Guyton, I needed to address his claim that Yanda (RG for Baltimore) was pushing Guyton out of the way for Ray Rice's 80+ yard TD run.

NFL Game Center: Baltimore Ravens at New England Patriots - 2009 Wild Card Weekend

At the 25 second mark from the end zone camera we see Green locked up with the LT, Mayo standing on the 20 bracing for the LG, Wilfork being chipped by Yanda to help the Center take him left, Guyton playing downhill to fill the hole, and Oher looking for his ass after Warren tossed him aside.

At the 26 second mark Green has shed the LT, Mayo is still on the 20 locked up with the LG, Wilfork is on his way to embarassment, Yanda has released off the combo block and both he and the FB (McClain) are lining up on Guyton, Oher is still looking for his ass, Warren is setting the edge.

At the 27 second mark I can't see Green, Mayo is still on the 20 locked up by the LG, Wilfork is leaving his feet en route to a seat on the turf, Yanda is dropping his hips and working his ass off to keep Guyton from pushing him into the hole (if you watch the fractional progression from second 26 to second 27 you'll note Yanda is the one being pushed back), McClain has redirected to Warren, and holy smokes what's this? That's Micheal Oher, the 23rd overall pick in the 2009 draft, now hitting Guyton from behind, which prevents Guyton from shedding Yanda and at least slowing Rice as he cuts through the hole!

As you watch the fractional progression through second 27 to 28, you'll see Guyton, despite being sandwiched by two OL is the only NE player to lay a hand on Rice on that play. Most likely Guyton would not have been able to shed Yanda enough to significantly slow Rice, but he and Wilfork were the only two players who were doubled on that play, Wilfork landed on his ass, Guyton came closest to closing the hole.

EDIT: If you go back and rewatch Guyton from the 14-15 second progression you'll see Oher hits Guyton before Rice crosses the line of scrimmage. It doesn't look like Gary got a hand on Rice because he was truly sandwiched as Rice goes by. It is what it is.

TBC set a decent edge.
Green, shed the LT and was in position to make a play if the play had gone his way.
Mayo was blocked 4 yds upfield.
Wilfork was chipped by Yanda, but the Center put him on his ass pretty much
singlehandedly (if Vince holds the point, this play is over).
Guyton nearly fills the hole despite being sandwiched by two OL.
Warren sheds his initial blocker and forces the FB to redirect from Guyton - technically he ate up two blockers.
Thomas stayed home appropriately, but then was a bit late flowing to the play.

TBC - Pass
Green - Pass
Mayo - Fail
Wilfork - Epic Fail, raised to a Fail for playing on a bum foot
Guyton - Pass
Warren - Pass
Thomas - Incomplete

Weatherspoon = Mayo; he'll need to go through the same progression and he's a luxury pick with McKenzie coming back.

I keep reading people bashing Guyton - from all I can see most of you are very confused. Some of you may recall how I've stated Guyton played better than Mayo last season? This is what I remember seeing more of then negative plays from him. Tedi Bruschi is in Guyton's corner, I'd think that might give a few more of you pause before throwing him out with the bathwater.

I've not watched Dansby enough to have an opinion on him - Peppers sucks - but then I don't recall Dansby's name getting called much when Cassell led Arizona's spanking in 08.

A late thought rereading this: Which front seven player DIDN'T Baltimore bother blocking on that play? Maybe "incomplete" was too generous a grade.

 

[JackBauer]

BOR, I agree with you.

I see Guyton as, at worst, a situational, Phifer-esque LB. At best, he could develop into a starter. Lord knows how long it sometimes takes for LBs to really feel comfortable in BB's defense. Cerebral types like Vrabel pick it up faster than others, but it took Bruschi, for example, quite a while until he finally broke out.

The fact is that Bruschi has said explicitly he believes Guyton can be a starter. That says quite a bit. I'm not sure where his ceiling is exactly myself; regardless, I do believe he will continue to progress, and if you keep high-caliber defensive lineman in front of him, his liabilities against the run can be mitigated to some degree.

I also don't think Mayo was any better than Guyton this year. But then again, I don't think that means that much because watching Mayo move laterally indicated to me that he never recovered from his knee injury.

 

[Deus Irae]

I certainly hope not. That would, without a shadow of a doubt, be the first big mistake of the new season. Guyton is a third down ILB. Good in coverage but not much else.

Belichick needs a tremendous offseason to rebound from the horrible job he did last year. It may take the team years to overcome the screw ups of 2009. That's why, while I agree with the general notion that Guyton has been, to date, a situational level linebacker, I'm not sure that focusing on ILB is going to be high on his list, because he's got so many other problems to deal with. The priority level for a platoon-mate/upgrade for Guyton may be impacted by how far along the team thinks McKenzie is, both in his rehab and his NFL maturity. With limited resources and lots of holes (WR2, WR4, TE, OG, DE, LOLB, ROLB and maybe CB and P, along with the need to re-sign Wilfork and Bodden), Belichick may just decide to roll the dice at the position, or he may hope that the next Paris Lenon works out better than the last one.

 

[captain stone]

I actually count three legitimate starters. DE, OLB, and ILB. IMO, Wright should only be seeing playing time on situational downs.

4 starters, if you count OLB twice (Burgess & TBC are UFAs, and AT is on Bill's sh!t list).
Otherwise, I agree.

 

[Keegs]

I wouldn't mind the Pats going the value rout for ILB and get a solid 3-4 ILB like Larry Foote.

if he is available, yes please.

best thing i've read on here in a while.

 

[Wretch]

The Pats need a real run stuffing LB and I don't know if Dansby is that guy. When I watch him play, he's like a bigger version of Mayo (just tackles guys but nothing spectacular).

What exactly is the problem with being a bigger version of a DROY and just tackling? Making a tackle means the ball carrier doesn't advance. Does it matter if it is a technically sound, unexciting, tackle or an body hurling acrobatic "hit"?

Frankly I would take a fundamentally sound tackler that makes the tackle rather than a "hitter" that makes an occasional spectacular hit but isn't fundamentally sound.

 

[WelshPat]

I like Dansby, but that a lottt of money to put in the ILB position.

 

[chevss454]

From his column:



Diner morning news: Race is on for Karlos Dansby | National Football Post

If the Pats don't get him and Lombardi is right about the favorites, I hope the Giants get him.

"Of all the players hitting the open market, I think Dansby and Panthers defensive end Julius Peppers will demand the biggest contracts. Dansby has led the Cardinals in tackles the past two seasons, and he'd bring some much-needed physicality to the Giants' defense. Michael Boley might be solid in coverage, but he's not going to force a lot of turnovers. Dansby would be an excellent fit in the Giants' scheme."

Dansby has college team mates & friends at both the NYG and Wash Redskins
but for him it's all going to be about the cash.


Karlos Dansby - NFC East Blog - ESPN

 

[emoney_33]

Elsewhere, in response to a fellow poster advocating drafting Weatherspoon to replace Guyton, I needed to address his claim that Yanda (RG for Baltimore) was pushing Guyton out of the way for Ray Rice's 80+ yard TD run.

What the crap...

Where did you originally post that breakdown and why am I just now seeing it!

 

[mike_usagisan]

I really don't see Dansby coming here. We need to address OLB first.

 

[woolster22]

I think dansby is simply a wet dream for us pats fans. Tedy and BB seem to have some confidence in the guys they have right now at LB. I think the FO expects a lot from McKenzie, and remember reading in a link someone posted that the staff though he was the steal of last years draft, not Vollmer. that doesn't mean all that much, but last time they were high on a LB we ended up with Mayo, time will tell. Peppers would fill a position of need, and would also provide flexibility in swapping between the 3-4 and 4-3. He would also help address the pass rush. the big question is would he become lazy with a contract? He had his doubters the last few yers while (in theory) playing for his next contract. It will be interesting to see how the market for him plays out with all the uncertainty facing the league in regards to the labor and cap situations.