Message To All The McCourty Haters

[aluminum seats]

Patriots won a superbowl with Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay and Assante Samuel (who got better the longer he played for the patriots)

Yep. Eric Mangini was a good secondary coach.

Sorry guys, it's true.

 

[PatsDeb]

PatsDeb, it is probably NOT Devin you should have problems with. The first year here he was turning his head and did well. Now with a few years of coaching he is having problems.

You say you don't "care what the technique is " but then you complain about Devin not turning his head.
Guess what? That is technique you are complaining about.

So you really need to Read what BB and his staff is coaching Devin to do. (see above post on BB Q & A)
BB is happy with Devin because he is doing what he has been coached to do. Maybe it is BB and the coaching staff you need to complain about.

No, it's Devin. He isn't learning whatever technique he's supposed to. If he's not supposed to be turning, and if he is now supposed to be playing the receiver's hands, he either gets there too early (PI call) or too late (completion) too much of the time. He did do well his first year, so it's puzzling that he's either stopped turning his head or the coaches have coached him to do differently.

PS - I can't believe BB is that thrilled with Devin's performance this year and last as compared to his first year, no matter what he says in public.

 

[Big-T]

No, it's Devin. He isn't learning whatever technique he's supposed to. If he's not supposed to be turning, and if he is now supposed to be playing the receiver's hands, he either gets there too early (PI call) or too late (completion) too much of the time. He did do well his first year, so it's puzzling that he's either stopped turning his head or the coaches have coached him to do differently.

Just to note, this season before the Denver game QBs were completing under 50% when passing towards McCourty, so unless you're expecting Revis type numbers then it isn't "too much of the time".

If the team are coaching DBs not to turn around and look for the ball, that is a catastrophic failure on their part which is odd considering how meticulous BB & co are, if they turned around more often then this defense would be one of the best in the league.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Since when does post count means anything? It means jack…. My ‘newbie’ status on this board has zero correlation with my familiarity with the Pats. For all you know, I’ve been a fan longer than you have been alive….

Bills game? Whoo-hoo! Must have been my lucky day… great, the guy had a ‘lights out’ game. Kudos to him. How about you go back and watch this past weekend's game against the Broncos? That moron drew yet another PI call right in the end zone, bring the Broncos to the 1 yard line!

Look, I'm not not going to take it away from him (his good plays). But on the long run he has caused this team more damage than anything. I already read what BB had to say about it, thank you very much. BB would never badmouth the skills (or lack thereof) of any of his players in public – you should know that. Any criticism (especially in this organization) is done behind closed doors. For all you know he’s ripping Mccourty a new one as we speak.

Look, I don’t care for a one-game (or even one season performance). I let the statistics do the talking here. The bottom line is that if you average his career performance, he comes out to be a crappy corner. And that’s not just me saying that (with my all 6 posts). Half the fan base (maybe even more) think the guy stinks. He has a ‘haters’ thread dedicated to him for crying out loud. Obviously others have noticed. The guy is a pure liability. Any third string QB looks like Joe Montana when he throws into his coverage.

The guys pure sucks, point blank!

You pay your dime, and you get to say what you think!

But I am reminded of Lincoln's dictum: "Better to be silent and considered a possible fool, rather than to speak up, and remove all doubt."

 

[RodThePat]

Patriots won a superbowl with Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay and Assante Samuel (who got better the longer he played for the patriots)

Yup, and ever since offenses adjusted after they put the emphasis on the "no contact beyond 5-yards" rule, we can't seem to get off the field. The NFL has become much more of a passing league since 2004, and that coincides almost perfectly with the start of our secondary woes. That just tells me the game has changed and Bill has been unable to adjust to those changes. Yes, the Patriots won a SuperBowl with Earthwind Moreland, Randall Gay and Asante Samuel in 2004, but were those guys then much more talented than the personnel we have now? I don't think so. What you are telling me is, back then, Belichick was capable of getting it done defensively with subpar talent. That no longer seems to be the case.

 

[Rob0729]

Here is an outsider's analysis on McCourty just to bring another media view outside the region:

The Patriots have to hope for more consistency from CB Devin McCourty when the ball is in the air. He has been in the right spot and had solid coverage all year, but he didn’t make the plays on the ball Sunday that he did last week when he had two picks, and it can become a problem when those misplays by McCourty turn into big plays for the offense. Bill Belichick got defensive of McCourty last week, and he’s still the team’s top corner, but he was flagged for pass interference in the endzone that led to a touchdown and couldn’t come back to defend an underthrown ball by Peyton Manning on the Broncos’ final drive.

ProFootballWeekly.com - AFC East Spin cycle: Week Five

Personally, I agree with the assessment, but I know others will say no. I think he has been solid in coverage for the most part, but like on Sunday, some of his blown coverages have been big mistakes.

 

[Spiral]

When BB was talking about McCourty, I was looking for him, but couldn't find him. Must have had his back to the camera.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Without the All 22, have to take some guesses from re-watching the game. But it looked like McCourty was the primary corner for 7 targets, and gave up 73 yards including the pass interference penalty. The biggest chunk of yardage came on Moore, who was matched up on Thomas a lot and gave up 135 yards on 5 targets.

Of those 7 targets, McCourty was actually in pretty good shape for most of them. The first was a 15-yard completion to Thomas where he cut inside, and McCourty couldn't give up the outside as he had no help over the top. The second was the terrible pass interference. The third was excellent coverage on Decker that resulted in Manning throwing the ball away.

The fourth was Decker's 2-yard TD, where McCourty had great coverage and it was a brilliant back-shoulder throw. Not much you can say about that except great play. The fifth was a throw-away after Ninko was pressuring and McCourty was staying tight with Thomas. The sixth was a 9-yard pick-up by Thomas who was covered tightly initially, but gained some separation once Manning started to scramble. McCourty did make the tackle before the 1st down marker though.

The final target was the 28-yard completion on 4th and 1 where McCourty was in excellent position and the ball was underthrown (perhaps intentionally).

So you could say he was in great position on 4 of the 7 targets, pretty decent coverage on 2 other targets, and 1 poor play on the pass interference.

Of course we'll remember that 1 poor play.

 

[RodThePat]

Without the All 22, have to take some guesses from re-watching the game. But it looked like McCourty was the primary corner for 7 targets, and gave up 73 yards including the pass interference penalty. The biggest chunk of yardage came on Moore, who was matched up on Thomas a lot and gave up 135 yards on 5 targets.

Of those 7 targets, McCourty was actually in pretty good shape for most of them. The first was a 15-yard completion to Thomas where he cut inside, and McCourty couldn't give up the outside as he had no help over the top. The second was the terrible pass interference. The third was excellent coverage on Decker that resulted in Manning throwing the ball away.

The fourth was Decker's 2-yard TD, where McCourty had great coverage and it was a brilliant back-shoulder throw. Not much you can say about that except great play. The fifth was a throw-away after Ninko was pressuring and McCourty was staying tight with Thomas. The sixth was a 9-yard pick-up by Thomas who was covered tightly initially, but gained some separation once Manning started to scramble. McCourty did make the tackle before the 1st down marker though.

The final target was the 28-yard completion on 4th and 1 where McCourty was in excellent position and the ball was underthrown (perhaps intentionally).

So you could say he was in great position on 4 of the 7 targets, pretty decent coverage on 2 other targets, and 1 poor play on the pass interference.

Of course we'll remember that 1 poor play.

McCourty was in perfect position on that 28 yard completion to Thomas?? Wow, now I've read everything. The ball was OBVIOUSLY "underthrown" on purpose, and Devin couldn't adjust. It's no coincidence they ran a route that deep on a 4th and 1, they were pretty confident McCourty wouldn't be in good position to make a play. And they were right.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

McCourty was in perfect position on that 28 yard completion to Thomas?? Wow, now I've read everything. The ball was OBVIOUSLY "underthrown" on purpose, and Devin couldn't adjust. It's no coincidence they ran a route that deep on a 4th and 1, they were pretty confident McCourty wouldn't be in good position to make a play. And they were right.

First off, I said excellent position, not perfect.

Secondly, let's at least recognize that Thomas is a good receiver who has two big advantages on this play:

1. McCourty is on an island against their best receiver. There's no safety help and McCourty has to protect against the touchdown as well as the catch.



With the ball in the air, you can see how close they still are.

2. If it was an intentional underthrow, then Thomas has a second advantage of knowing it and starting his break on the ball. With that in mind, you can see Thomas working back towards the ball and still having to go to his knees to complete the catch. McCourty has overrun the route a bit, but again, also has to protect against the touchdown.



I'm still not convinced of the intentional underthrow considering the high arc of the ball. It would have been better to drive that throw considering there's no one else on that side of the field and he has a clear throwing lane. A screenshot doesn't really justify it but you can watch it on NFL.com's game highlights.

McCourty didn't respond quick enough, no doubt about it, but he played the route pretty well considering the circumstances.

I'd also take a second look at the highlight reel as it appears to be Manning's 3rd or 4th read. He looks down the middle, looks to the left, and then right before throwing, maybe even looking back down the middle again before looking to Thomas. So I don't believe the play design was specifically to throw deep on McCourty. And don't suggest he's looking off the safety when there's no safety within 10 yards of Thomas and McCourty.

 

[dizi24]

I'm not really sure McCourty could have played that one much better. Like you pointed out, it was one on one coverage with no safety help in a two score game late in the 4th. The LAST thing McCourty should be doing there is letting Thomas have anything over the top. He was tight in coverage throughout the player, and the Broncos just executed some good situational football by recognizing that McCourty wasn't going to be beaten deep.

I've been frustrated with McCourty's play on the ball. This whole "turn your head" thing is a little overblown, but he does need to do a better job breaking up passes once he's in position. But McCourty played that very well.

 

[mosi]

The thing I noticed watching the game again is that McCourty always seems to have his eyes on the receiver and not on the ball. I think he is afraid of allowing separation and feels that if he looks back at the QB, he is going to loose the receiver.

At the same time, several of the catches made in that game were the result of absolutely perfectly thrown balls and great catches.

 

[prentice mccray]

I spoke to Jerod Mayo about this last week. This video may help folks understand when and why a defender in coverage is unable to turn around to see the ball.

The end zone play Sunday was an instance where McCourty should have jumped and turned as opposed to jumping to disrupt the arrival of the ball. The receiver was out of space.

Video on the Celtics, Patriots, Red Sox and Bruins | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

 

[Joker]

the unsaid factor in all this McCourty debate is that on a number of these plays that Manning had the time to throw those routes, Chandler Jones was being mugged in the open, right in front of a ref standing mere feet away. I've seen the shots as a number of us have now. Some people tend to forget ,this is a TEAM game .When a defensive player beats his man from the jump and gets choked collared from BEHIND, that SHOULD be a flag. Denver...4 penalties for 21 yards, ZERO holds. I counted 12 blatant holds , 7 involving Jones to only three for the Patriots on Denver...that's a net of NINE penalties.Realistically, divide THAT number in half and you have at least four holding penalties that should have been called, and under most circumstances, would have been called.

Who do we see about THIS?

 

[Big-T]

Who do we see about THIS?

Someone at NFL HQ?

The team should really show the league all the times he's been held this year along with how close the ref was to the incident and ask why it was ignored.

 

[Joker]

yeah...perhaps the Pats attorneys can take it to NFL court and have the Broncos charged with "perjury"....

 

[wistahpatsfan]

yeah...perhaps the Pats attorneys can take it to NFL court and have the Broncos charged with "perjury"....

All the more reason the Pats have no choice but to run up the score. Everyone's against us!

 

[Boomer B]

Paul Perillo from Patriots website was asked about McCourty and this was his reply

"McCourty is struggling, there’s no question about it. He’s been beaten often on deep balls down the sideline as well as crossing routes over the middle. His interference penalties have come on plays in which he’s been badly beaten and racing to catch up. That’s why he hasn’t been looking back for the ball. So, until he can figure out how to keep his man in front of him I wouldn’t expect to see his head looking back for the ball. It’s hard to do that when you are chasing."

That is a good point. If you're trying to catch up then you're not in position to turn your head.

 

[Joker]

I don't think it's an "everyone's against us" thing...I think it's a league(Goodell) mandated thing, designed to keep a gigantic marquee player coming back from serious,near career ending neck injury, upright, intact and drawing numbers for every game. No one turned that game off in the 4th quarter because Manning was putting on another of his furious comeback shows. No comeback show if the refs throws flags for blatant penalties. I think every team Denver plays this regular season will face the same slanted reincarnation of Polian rules,just to keep a league icon and major asset intact.

 

[Double TE]

Just use the naked eye test. Mine tells me he was excellent in his rookie year. Awful last year. And is average this year.

Simple as that.