Martellus Bennett : [UPDATE: Placed on IR]

[JMC00]

 

[oldrover]

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Crap, sounds like he may not be ready to throw the ceremonial first pitch at Fenway in April after they win another Super Bowl.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Like I said in the other thread ... happy he is here but let it play out over a few days first.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yep and it depends on the severity of the tear. I'm sure many of us have torn ours and rehabed it w/o surgery but it took forever.

I'm assuming his is severe enough to require surgery and is just gonna try to gut it out.

 

[Le Numéro Douze]

Let him rest for a few weeks then slowly incorporate him into the offense (if he can play through the injury that is). The playoffs are when we would need him the most. The roster spot is valuable, but I would be willing to take a chance on a player on Marty's caliber.

 

[NE-VT]

I thought your post provided insight, and I marked it as agree. I do have some slight critiques or thoughts on it.

I seems to me that, while Hogan is out, Hollister/(Slater) is effectively the #4 WR.

I wonder if White would be better as WR #4 (in a slot role) for a good portion of the route tree. I have been very impressed in White's ability to run Edelman-like short passing game routes. IMO (and also via Football by Football on twitter, RIP), White showed an awesome understanding of defender leverage on option routes, and could create space with quick cuts. Of course, I think Edelman is a better overall receiver. Collinsworth was right: Edelman should not be pigeon holed into a slot guy.

I feel like we would use Hollister on intermediate routes (stuff like seem routes) more because he is bigger. He can take a hit from a safety, still hold on, and get back up for next play. But I don't think Hollister is a better route runner.

Meanwhile, Bennett adds a legit receiving target coming out of the TE position - something that was virtually non-existent during the first half of the season. That will force some coverage adjustments. Indeed, the presence of Bennett on the field with Gronk may help improve red-zone performance even when neither of them is the designed pass target.

I don't have a good sense for just how bad Allen's route running is. Do they cover him with a slow MLB, and where now they have to cover MB with a OLB or safety? The times I noticed he was open Brady threw it to him, I don't think the coverage could just ignore him.

Furthermore, because Bennett will almost certainly be out in the pass pattern more often than Allen, Hollister or Develin have been

If MB can run routes better than Allen and can still block, then it might help in the following way. We be in a TE set with on either side of the tackles. Defense might not know if both TE's are coming out for routes, or if one is staying back to help pass block. Furthermore, one could help pass block then release for an underneath check down option.

So, even if Bennett is likely to contribute near zero ST snaps, it's not as much a concern for me as the lack of contributions from Roberts.

Yes I agree. If Bennett can be a regular contributor again his theoretical zero ST snaps would not be concerning.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Can they cut an injured player because they are angry?

It looks as though that's part of their grievance. If he were 100% at this stage, they wouldn't have a case.

EDIT: He has a torn rotator cuff. So, yes, they can cut him (they did). And, yes, they could have put him on IR. So, if they chose the first rather than the second and filed a grievance at the same time, it's a strong inference that they cut him because they were angry.

No?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

If anyone can play through injuries it would be Bennett.

I would also like to know the severity of the injury.

I heard somewhere that Rolle with the giants played with two torn rotator cuffs during their run to the super bowl in 2012.

 

[FortressX]

Can one hold onto the ball while the D is trying to rip it out with this injury ?

 

[Ross12]

You and others if your ilk said the pats were through with him, wouldn't want him, that ship has sailed, he'd never come here. "No, no, no, a thousamd times no!"

You were wrong, i was right. The pats did want him and he has found his way back. Now you're acting like quite the lousy bum yourself. "Oh but they didn't trade for him!" That wasn't really the point, they are interested. He's back. You were 1,000% wrong and i was right.

I’ve never discussed this topic with you at any point so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[Ross12]

I wasn't involved, but stay classy . So you were right and now rub it in people's faces? Again, stay classy. Leave Ross alone, you're being the bum.

Thanks for jumping in SA, but I never even discussed this this topic with him at any point, so I’m totally lost. Appreciate the gesture though.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I guess this officially brands The Dwayne Allen acquisition as fail.

This week is Allen's Breakout Game!!!!

 

[dannydyn]

Many pages ago I made an argument for how TA's skills impact the passing game even if he is not targeted. I also argued that who is to blame for his lack of catches is complicated. @Tony2046 pointed out that only one of his targets were a clear drop.

No worries if you just believe Allen should be considered a OL but don't want to argue it, or if you were just making a joke because of your perception of his route running ability. I just wanted to explain why some might disagree with your joke/statement.

It was just Friday humor.... Allen is first and foremost a TE.

TGIF

 

[primetime]

It looks as though that's part of their grievance. If he were 100% at this stage, they wouldn't have a case.

EDIT: He has a torn rotator cuff. So, yes, they can cut him (they did). And, yes, they could have put him on IR. So, if they chose the first rather than the second and filed a grievance at the same time, it's a strong inference that they cut him because they were angry.

No?

You normally can't cut a guy with an injury acquired after a contract was signed that would require IR, that's against the CBA. In order to cut an injured player, the player must agree to an injury settlement. There are a number of reasons a team or player may find an injury settlement advantageous (for example, a team puts a guy on IR for roster management purposes but the player could come back later in the season and he's a relative unknown who will be a free agent the next off-season so he'll want the opportunity to sign with someone else and prove he belongs), but both camps must assent and for most players they go on IR and continue to get paid as if they were active.

The failure to disclose designation allows you to cut such a player with the premise that the contract the player signed was under false pretenses. In other words, Bennett had torn his rotator cuff before signing with the Packers. Jonathan Fanene is probably the most memorable case of this to Patriots fans, and the team eventually recouped his bonus. That said, Fanene was cut in camp, while Bennett was cut halfway through the season, so the Packers may have a tough time recouping their money.

 

[GorBelSer]

If anyone can play through injuries it would be Bennett.

I would also like to know the severity of the injury.

I heard somewhere that Rolle with the giants played with two torn rotator cuffs during their run to the super bowl in 2012.

Why would he play through the injury? He won the SB last year, why would he put his long term health in jeopardy? If he indeed tore his rotator cuff, he wouldnt be much of a threat in passing game anyway.

 

[slash83]

Not knocking the move cause it’s a good one. But why sign him if he’s done for the year?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Why would he play through the injury? He won the SB last year, why would he put his long term health in jeopardy? If he indeed tore his rotator cuff, he wouldnt be much of a threat in passing game anyway.

He likely will retire anyway. They can also rest him up until the season's over and bring him back for the playoffs. Don't know the severity of the torn rotator cuff as well.

 

[maineman209]

I thought your post provided insight, and I marked it as agree. I do have some slight critiques or thoughts on it.



I wonder if White would be better as WR #4 (in a slot role) for a good portion of the route tree. I have been very impressed in White's ability to run Edelman-like short passing game routes. IMO (and also via Football by Football on twitter, RIP), White showed an awesome understanding of defender leverage on option routes, and could create space with quick cuts. Of course, I think Edelman is a better overall receiver. Collinsworth was right: Edelman should not be pigeon holed into a slot guy.

I feel like we would use Hollister on intermediate routes (stuff like seem routes) more because he is bigger. He can take a hit from a safety, still hold on, and get back up for next play. But I don't think Hollister is a better route runner.



I don't have a good sense for just how bad Allen's route running is. Do they cover him with a slow MLB, and where now they have to cover MB with a OLB or safety? The times I noticed he was open Brady threw it to him, I don't think the coverage could just ignore him.



If MB can run routes better than Allen and can still block, then it might help in the following way. We be in a TE set with on either side of the tackles. Defense might not know if both TE's are coming out for routes, or if one is staying back to help pass block. Furthermore, one could help pass block then release for an underneath check down option.



Yes I agree. If Bennett can be a regular contributor again his theoretical zero ST snaps would not be concerning.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I only meant Hollister/(Slater) as the #4 WR in terms of depth, not in terms of literal usage.

I agree that using White (or Lewis or Burkhead) in the slot is probably better for a 4WR set than using either Hollister or Slater, especially if the RB moves from the backfield to convert a 3WR to 4WR.

I'm not sure that Allen runs routes particularly poorly (technique-wise), except perhaps not making the read adjustments that Brady expects with enough consistency. I think that his route-portfolio has been limited (and may have been somewhat in Indy, too - IDK), and I don't think he's been out in pass patterns as much as Bennett will be.

I'd guess that Allen's number of snaps played per route run is about at Develin's level or just slightly better. OTOH, I'd guess that Hollister has run nearly as many routes in his 40 snaps as Allen has in his 195 snaps. But, again, Hollister's route portfolio is likely limited relative to Bennett's, too, at this point.

While no "body" that runs a route can be ignored, the difference that Bennett might make is that defenses may try to assign a better coverage guy to him than they would to Allen, or even to Hollister. Might be that the defense elects to sub-in an LB who's better in coverage, but not such a good run-defender, whereas they might not for Develin - that sort of thing. Whatever such adjustment a defense might feel the need to make for Bennett (that they wouldn't for Allen) will sometimes leave an exploitable vulnerability elsewhere. Even if that's only for a half-dozen snaps per game, that's a half-dozen more opportunities for the Pats offense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Can one hold onto the ball while the D is trying to rip it out with this injury ?

Depending on the severity, anyone who has had a rotator cuff injury will tell you your arm feels very weak and difficult to move.

If its catches up high, he'll have problems.

IIRC it seemed he cradled the ball with his right arm/hand most of the time. Lets hope it is his left arm is the one injured.