Man in the Arena Discussion

[Ring 6]

This isn't nits. It's facts. Brady did more for his personal legacy leaving and winning in Tampa and making a bid for league MVP this year. Now, if Bill wins the SB this year with a rookie QB then IMO he will have done the same for his legacy.

“Legacy” is not fact it’s opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

No I don’t think so. The coach simply needs talented players to win like any other coach and he’s got them now. He didn’t last year and they weren’t winners. There’s no Belichick winning system that can turn crap into gold it’s a fabrication.

Your argument is a straw man.

 

[amfootball]

I dunno.

In terms of legacy building I put SB49 and 51 ahead of what he did in Tampa.

Yea he won w/o BB in Tampa but he officially became The GOAT with those two wins.

It isn't about him becoming the goat. Of course he was that after winning super bowl 51. This was about changing the narrative of his career. No player with his accomplishments has ever had their success more attributed to their coach and organizational system than Brady. That's why winning in Tampa in year one apart from Bill furthered his personal legacy. He won outside of New England with a different coach and a different system and a new conference. And he did this on a 7-5 team that did not lose a game the rest of the way. I would say no other team athlete has done more for their personal legacy at its latest stage then Brady.

 

[Rob0729]

In this episode, did Brady admit that pissing off the Giants prior to the game with his "we're only going to score 17 points? Hehehehe, is Plax going to play defense" line was a mistake? Because I can't see Bradyite Gotham Chopra bringing it up in the interview. Probably the single biggest unforced error of SB 42.

In hind sight, it may have shown that Brady and the rest of the Patriots were probably not taking the Giants seriously enough. I am guessing Brady figured the Pats just scored 38 points on the Giants at the end of the season that there was no way that the Giants could hold them to 17. He was either ignoring the fact or dismissing it that the Giants' defense really became dominant in the playoffs that year.

 

[Rob0729]

We all know the Patriots took the Giants lightly, and some Patriots even said they were burned out by the undefeated season.

Randy Moss said it best in the last episode, "Going undefeated was so incredibly exhausting."

I will never forgive John Tomase, Asante Samuel and Pierre Woods. Especially Tomase.

Bruschi also has said in the past the pressure of the perfect season was getting to him and a lot of other players.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It isn't about him becoming the goat. Of course he was that after winning super bowl 51. This was about changing the narrative of his career. No player with his accomplishments has ever had their success more attributed to their coach and organizational system than Brady. That's why winning in Tampa in year one apart from Bill furthered his personal legacy. He won outside of New England with a different coach and a different system and a new conference. And he did this on a 7-5 team that did not lose a game the rest of the way. I would say no other team athlete has done more for their personal legacy at its latest stage then Brady.

Who's narrative?

Your argument is nonsensical.

He was universally considered to be the GOAT before he left for TB. That was the accepted narrative by every reasonable football fan with a brain.

Winning w/ Tampa proved Tom was not washed up and he could win in a different offensive system with a different coach. Nice story but it falls way short of becoming the GOAT and it's not close.

Winning w/o BB does not supersede becoming the GOAT.

Full stop.

 

[Ring 6]

It isn't about him becoming the goat. Of course he was that after winning super bowl 51. This was about changing the narrative of his career. No player with his accomplishments has ever had their success more attributed to their coach and organizational system than Brady. That's why winning in Tampa in year one apart from Bill furthered his personal legacy. He won outside of New England with a different coach and a different system and a new conference. And he did this on a 7-5 team that did not lose a game the rest of the way. I would say no other team athlete has done more for their personal legacy at its latest stage then Brady.

The only people trying to take away from the success and legacy of belichick and Brady because of the other one are idiots on this board.

 

[amfootball]

Who's narrative?

Your argument is nonsensical.

He was universally considered to be the GOAT before he left for TB. That was the accepted narrative by every reasonable football fan with a brain.

Winning w/ Tampa proved Tom was not washed up and he could win in a different offensive system with a different coach. Nice story but it falls way short of becoming the GOAT and it's not close.

Winning w/o BB does not supersede becoming the GOAT.

Full stop.

You are misunderstanding my point. I am not saying it supersedes his status as GOAT. I am saying it changed the narrative of his career, which it did as he won outside of Bill/NE. I am saying he enhanced his end of career narrative significantly more so than any other team player.

 

[amfootball]

The only people trying to take away from the success and legacy of belichick and Brady because of the other one are idiots on this board.

Who's doing that? It doesn't take away from Bill at all with Brady winning in Tampa. It just adds to Brady's personal legacy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are misunderstanding my point. I am not saying it supersedes his status as GOAT. I am saying it changed the narrative of his career, which it did as he won outside of Bill/NE. I am saying he enhanced his end of career narrative significantly more so than any other team player.

When was this narrative you speak of born?

I don't recall that ever being a major knock on Tom.

Besides, WGAF. He was already the GOAT.

 

[amfootball]

When was this narrative you speak of born?

I don't recall that ever being a major knock on Tom.

Besides, WGAF. He was already the GOAT.

As soon as he won the SB and was named MVP. The media completely changed their narrative on his career. For folks who believed he was more a product of the NE system and Bills coaching, they changed their position dramatically (the Kellermans, Wrights, Sharpes, etc). Pretty much any article written on him post SB put him and his career in an entirely different light.

 

[Calhoun44]

Man in the Arena.
Is anyone else annoyed by the guy who does the introduction for this series? His voice really bothers me, almost as much as the continued conversation of Brady vs. BB. It's a bit much guys, no one is going to change their take on the situation a year and a half later. Can't we all just move forward and stop recycling the same old arguments over and over?

 

[RobertWeathers]

As soon as he won the SB and was named MVP. The media completely changed their narrative on his career. For folks who believed he was more a product of the NE system and Bills coaching, they changed their position dramatically (the Kellermans, Wrights, Sharpes, etc). Pretty much any article written on him post SB put him and his career in an entirely different light.

No. No one did this besides the jerkoffs you mention.

 

[amfootball]

I see.

Voices that truly matter.

I just listed them because they changed the most but like I said, if you look at articles and/or segments on Brady post the Tampa SB win, the narrative on his career changed. I mean how couldn't it? He won another SB at age 43 away from Bill in year one, on the road as a WC beating the Saints, GB and Chiefs in the SB. He doesn't win SI sports player of the year without that win.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Truth is Tampa in 2019 was 2 wins from getting a 7 seed had the NFL changed to the 7 team playoff format back then.

Teams that would have made the playoffs in 2019 if you flip two losses to wins and add a 7th playoff seed (assuming, as in this case, they win tiebreaker):

(23 teams)
Baltimore
Kansas City
New England
Houston
Buffalo
Tennessee
Pittsburgh
Denver
Oakland
Indianapolis
NY Jets
Jacksonville
Cleveland
San Francisco
Green Bay
New Orleans
Philadelphia
Seattle
Minnesota
LA Rams
Dallas
Chicago
Tampa Bay

 

[RobertWeathers]

I just listed them because they changed the most but like I said, if you look at articles and/or segments on Brady post the Tampa SB win, the narrative on his career changed. I mean how couldn't it? He won another SB at age 43 away from Bill in year one, on the road as a WC beating the Saints, GB and Chiefs in the SB. He doesn't win SI sports player of the year without that win.

Love ya man but I don't read, listen or watch to the same **** as you do nor will I give exactly 2 ****s if Tom wins SI Sportsman of the Year.

The media spins this BS just to create garbage discussion nor does it (in)validate anything Tom has achieved.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I don't think what he did last year adds much to his legacy TBH. He's not the first QB to win a super bowl or a league MVP on another team.

I agree with your first 3 words

 

[PatsWSB47]

LOL. You really look ridiculous now.

ROBPARKER10

 

[Ring 6]

Who's doing that? It doesn't take away from Bill at all with Brady winning in Tampa. It just adds to Brady's personal legacy.

You are. Thinking Brady needs to win without Belichickbto further his legacy is detracting from what he did because Belichick was there.
No one has ever won more than 4. Brady didn’t need a 7th for any reason to support his legacy.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

You are. Thinking Brady needs to win without Belichickbto further his legacy is detracting from what he did because Belichick was there.
No one has ever won more than 4. Brady didn’t need a 7th for any reason to support his legacy.

Brady was already the GOAT after SB 51. SB53 and 55 were just icing.