Malcolm Butler situation?

[mgteich]

Why would we be concerned? If our secondary is playing well, it doesn't matter who is getting the reps. We have 4 capable corners.

We are paying Gilmore a lot to be the #1. It seems that he is the #1, playing 100% of the reps.
Apparently, Patricia likes Rowe instead of Butler is certain 2 CB sets. Why is that an issue?

 

[Urgent]

For people saying "nothing to see here" I think this is an interesting outcome.
For the past two years, Malcolm Butler was clearly CB#1. He played against big receivers, fast receivers, anything.
Now he is a situational player. Further, he hasn't looked great through the pre-season and first two games.

The play in the end zone with twins left - wasn't that sort of the mirror of his claim to fame game? He got washed out of the play, his receiver was wide open for the TD.
That's notable.

 

[BlacknGold77]

For people saying "nothing to see here" I think this is an interesting outcome.
For the past two years, Malcolm Butler was clearly CB#1. He played against big receivers, fast receivers, anything.
Now he is a situational player. Further, he hasn't looked great through the pre-season and first two games.

The play in the end zone with twins left - wasn't that sort of the mirror of his claim to fame game? He got washed out of the play, his receiver was wide open for the TD.
That's notable.

not worried about specifically for the reasons you mentioned.

He was the every snap #1 corner as of last year. You dont go to spot playing from there without outside factors.

Seems to me he is banged up and playing through something. No other reason for Bill to limit his snaps and try cover for him when he is in there.

 

[50-yard-line]

Butler is not as good as our gratitude for his SB play led us to believe. He is not as bad as a few iffy plays since might suggest. He's a good corner, a slim cut above "solid," whom the Patriots know they will decline to overpay. Another team will, of course, and BB will get out of the situation what he can, as he always does.

He was good enough to single up against Antonio Brown.

He seems a bit off this year. he's a heart player and his head's in the way. Even though J Jones is my binkie, I hope they work it out with Butler. he's a real good corner, good learner, fights to the end...he won't be nearly as good anywhere else, because BB gets him and keeps him fired - well, until so far this year.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

New England Patriots analysis: Why was Malcolm Butler not part of team's base defense vs. Saints?

Eric Rowe, who underplayed the importance of getting the start ("to me, it's not a big deal"), explained the personnel change like this: "It was just me playing on the outside and inside this week. Knowing our coaches, it can flip right back...I think it was just a way for me to get some reps on the outside."

What's strange about this arrangement?

It did not appear to be dictated by matchups.

The Patriots like to use Butler against terrific smaller receivers (think Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, Emmanuel Sanders). They usually do not like to put him on big perimeter receivers (think Mike Evans, Julio Jones, Kelvin Benjamin, even the 6-foot-1 DeAndre Hopkins). In the past, that job belonged to Logan Ryan. The Pats paid Stephon Gilmore more than $30 million guaranteed to inherit the position this year.

Except, when the Pats used three cornerbacks in this game, Butler often found himself on Michael Thomas, New Orleans' stud 6-foot-3 outside receiver. Butler manned the right side of the field, Gilmore took the left, and Rowe covered on the interior.

"We weren't following anybody, specifically," Rowe explained. "It was just line up in our spots and whoever was there was there."

The question: If the Patriots were happy to use Butler on Michael Thomas or Brandon Coleman when the Saints went with three receivers, why didn't they also use Butler in their base defense to counter the Saints' two-receiver looks?
​

 

[PatsBoy12]

Butler is not as good as our gratitude for his SB play led us to believe. He is not as bad as a few iffy plays since might suggest. He's a good corner, a slim cut above "solid," whom the Patriots know they will decline to overpay. Another team will, of course, and BB will get out of the situation what he can, as he always does.

Yeah, this is about as accurate as it gets. I certainly love Butler and would rather have him than not, but I don't think he's worth what he thinks he is worth. He's very very good, but he has physical limitations that will keep him from great.

 

[maineman209]

For people saying "nothing to see here" I think this is an interesting outcome.
For the past two years, Malcolm Butler was clearly CB#1. He played against big receivers, fast receivers, anything.
Now he is a situational player. Further, he hasn't looked great through the pre-season and first two games.

The play in the end zone with twins left - wasn't that sort of the mirror of his claim to fame game? He got washed out of the play, his receiver was wide open for the TD.
That's notable.

In 2015, the Pats' top three CBs were Butler, Ryan and ... Coleman?
In 2016, the Pats' top three CBs were Butler, Ryan and Rowe beating out Coleman.
In 2017, the Pats' top three CBs, are Butler, Gilmore and Rowe.

So, it Butler being used differently this year because HE has "declined", or because the other two CBs have been upgraded and now allow for a whole different set of coverage and matchup possibilities?

 

[Deus Irae]

In 2015, the Pats' top three CBs were Butler, Ryan and ... Coleman?
In 2016, the Pats' top three CBs were Butler, Ryan and Rowe beating out Coleman.
In 2017, the Pats' top three CBs, are Butler, Gilmore and Rowe.

So, it Butler being used differently this year because HE has "declined", or because the other two CBs have been upgraded and now allow for a whole different set of coverage and matchup possibilities?

I think the answer to your question may be "Yes". Butler looks a bit off, Gilmore's a definite upgrade over Ryan, Rowe has clearly improved in his coverage against big WRs, and Jones looks like a viable CB3/CB4.

 

[Bruins29]

Amazing that we finally get the deep CB group that we have always wanted and now we have 1 heathy WR.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I don't think it actually matters who gets the start. Snap counts and matchups matter. I do think Butler has been pretty underwhelming dating back to preseason, so that is a little concerning, but there could be a bunch of reasons for that. The CB rotation overall has improved, and he's still playing well enough to more than justify his price tag.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

For people saying "nothing to see here" I think this is an interesting outcome.
For the past two years, Malcolm Butler was clearly CB#1. He played against big receivers, fast receivers, anything.
Now he is a situational player. Further, he hasn't looked great through the pre-season and first two games.

The play in the end zone with twins left - wasn't that sort of the mirror of his claim to fame game? He got washed out of the play, his receiver was wide open for the TD.
That's notable.

Difference is that Browner was able to hold his man at the line, Chung couldn't. Can't really blame Butler for this one.

 

[supafly]

He was good enough to single up against Antonio Brown.

Certainly doesn't mean that he was very effective at it, allowing 9/11 targets for 133 yards and a touchdown. But, he was "in position" a lot, so there's that.

I believe they approached the matchup a bit differently in the following games, but they did have the balls to line him up one on one in the opener.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Damn... bye Malcolm

 

[TommyD4207]

Damn... bye Malcolm

Mike Girardi : Malcolm Butler :: Brian Windhorst : Lebron James

 

[Nunchucks]

For people saying "nothing to see here" I think this is an interesting outcome.
For the past two years, Malcolm Butler was clearly CB#1. He played against big receivers, fast receivers, anything.
Now he is a situational player. Further, he hasn't looked great through the pre-season and first two games.

The play in the end zone with twins left - wasn't that sort of the mirror of his claim to fame game? He got washed out of the play, his receiver was wide open for the TD.
That's notable.

Not really big receivers. The big receiver was always Ryan's responsibility.

 

[Love The Drake]

Damn... bye Malcolm

Butler is on the chopping block for a pass rushing linebacker or another capable receiver it would seem.
So can anyone play Match maker?
Butler for Kendricks and a pick makes alot of sense.
Butler for Josh Gordon and a pick?
Cleveland loves our talented malcontents
Butler for Derek Morgan of the Titans some Butler Ryan reunion?
Aldon Smith and a pick and some counseling?
Cincinnati how about Butler for Michael Johnson and a 4th rounder?

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Some think they might trade butler. I just don't see how they do it unless they get something good back in return.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

OK, I worked the numbers and this works (barley) under the salary cap.....

Trade Butler, Lewis, Allen, & Fleming to Seattle for Graham & Sherman.

Together Graham and Sherman are 23 million dollars worth of cap relief for Seattle with very little dead money! That is a lot of cap relief for Seattle. They replace Sherman with Butler for a quarter of the salary. Lewis gives them an option in and out of the backfield that they do not have. Fleming would instantly be there starting LT (yeah, it's that bad in Seattle) and Allen replaces Graham who they don't use anyways. Plus, you remove Sherman and Graham from Seattle and it makes it Wilson's team, which I have a feeling, the Seahawks brass would prefer.

The Pats put Sherman opposite Gillmore and instantly have the best the best CB pair in football, Graham plays the part of Aaron Hernandez (minus the wholesale killings) and the two teams meet in the Superbowl to figure out who got the better of the deal.

What do you think? and no, I'm not high

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Butler is on the chopping block for a pass rushing linebacker or another capable receiver it would seem.
So can anyone play Match maker?
Butler for Kendricks and a pick makes alot of sense.
Butler for Josh Gordon and a pick?
Cleveland loves our talented malcontents
Butler for Derek Morgan of the Titans some Butler Ryan reunion?
Aldon Smith and a pick and some counseling?
Cincinnati how about Butler for Michael Johnson and a 4th rounder?

I think they have enough. I hate giving up a guy like butler. It would have to be something good

 

[Uptown]

It FEELS as if the Butler's services will no longer be required...