Patriots Rumor Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Ring 6]

I agree with 1 and 3, but you can argue that if the Patriots had one third or fourth down stop in that 10 minute drive in the fourth quarter, they win, and that Butler significantly increases the chances of getting that stop. Honestly I think that's the main point on one side of the argument that's led to this 299-page thread. (300 here we come!)

They had a stop at about their own 40 and Philly went on 4th down.

 

[IcyPatriot]

This thread ...

 

[QuantumMechanic]

20 to go...

 

[Tony2046]

There is absolutely no set of facts that justified what occurred. If he assaulted someone you kick him off the sidelines and don’t let him play. He played. Anything short of that, you go win the damn Super Bowl.

Did he suck in practice? Did the flu slow him down?

"we all knew he wouldn't start" , said McCourty.

Maybe BB thought he had the best players on the field. We'll never know if MB could have changed things.

All speculation of course but neither you or I truly know why he was benched. But you think you know there wasn't any reason that would justify it whereas I think BB may have had one.

19 more to go.

 

[TB_Helmet]

300 pages! Congratulations everyone!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

If you had made a list of Most Indepensible Patriots the day prior to SB53, would Malcom Butler have been in your top 25? I’m starting to wonder if people were even paying attention during the 2017-18 season when he was not even an average player, let alone a solid cornerback. Rowe outplayed him for much of the season and his performance in the SB is being way overblown; he let up that long TD pass, though it’s not like Butler didn’t allow 6 TDs during the season (tied for third most in entire NFL). The entire defense was gashed because (a) they had a terrible pass rush due to not having any good pass rushers, and (b) they had even more terrible linebackers, and (c) their secondary, which masked an incredibly weak front 6/7 all season, finally broke due to the Eagles elite pass blocking, and their versatility and depth at skill positions. This defense had faced the Titans and Jaguars in the playoffs...those teams had very weak offenses.

This was not the most puzzling Belichick Super Bowl decision to me. That would be going for it on 4th and 11 in SB42 instead of a 48-yard (or so) field goal attempt. And both fourth down/field goal decisions in the second quarter of SB52 were also more puzzling. Kicking a FG on 4th and 1 at the Eagles eight, and then attempting a circus catch down the sidelines on 4th and 5 at the Eagles 35, both seem be in contrast to statistical probabilities for points. Those decisions there are biggest head scratchers for me. On 4th and 5, you attempt a 52 yard FG, and on 4th and 1 at the eight, you go for the seven points and hedge your bet with field position. These are basic football decisions they require little argument, yet it seems that due to the gravity of the game, Belichick has at times tried to be too smart when it comes to risk:reward, and made decisions that he would not have made during any other games.

 

[Clonamery]

If you had made a list of Most Indepensible Patriots the day prior to SB53, would Malcom Butler have been in your top 25? I’m starting to wonder if people were even paying attention during the 2017-18 season when he was not even an average player, let alone a solid cornerback. Rowe outplayed him for much of the season and his performance in the SB is being way overblown; he let up that long TD pass, though it’s not like Butler didn’t allow 6 TDs during the season (tied for third most in entire NFL). The entire defense was gashed because (a) they had a terrible pass rush due to not having any good pass rushers, and (b) they had even more terrible linebackers, and (c) their secondary, which masked an incredibly weak front 6/7 all season, finally broke due to the Eagles elite pass blocking, and their versatility and depth at skill positions. This defense had faced the Titans and Jaguars in the playoffs...those teams had very weak offenses.

This was not the most puzzling Belichick Super Bowl decision to me. That would be going for it on 4th and 11 in SB42 instead of a 48-yard (or so) field goal attempt. And both fourth down/field goal decisions in the second quarter of SB53 were also more puzzling. Kicking a FG on 4th and 1 at the Eagles eight, and then attempting a circus catch down the sidelines on 4th and 5 at the Eagles 35, both seem be in contrast to statistical probabilities for points. Those decisions there are biggest head scratchers for me. On 4th and 5, you attempt a 52 yard FG, and on 4th and 1 at the eight, you go for the seven points and hedge your bet with field position. These are basic football decisions they require little argument, yet it seems that due to the gravity of the game, Belichick has at times tried to be too smart when it comes to risk:reward, and made decisions that he would not have made during any other games.

What can I say...your paragraphs are too long. Maybe next time use bullet points or number your thoughts separately like Patsfanken. It's okay to make it easier on the reader when you're using stats and smarty-pants points. Other than that, I guess I'll take my head outta BB's arse since you pointed out those disagreeable, faux pas FG decisions.

 

[aluminum seats]

Did he suck in practice? Did the flu slow him down?

"we all knew he wouldn't start" , said McCourty.

Maybe BB thought he had the best players on the field. We'll never know if MB could have changed things.

All speculation of course but neither you or I truly know why he was benched. But you think you know there wasn't any reason that would justify it whereas I think BB may have had one.

19 more to go.

Neither “he sucked in practice” or “the flu flowed him down” would justify keeping your cornerback on the bench who played 98% of the snaps during the season when your defense is getting massacred.

“Hmmm...we’ve given up 90 points this quarter, and my defense is a complete mess, but Malcolm WAS feeling under the weather last week..” Uh, no.

If you think there’s a reason that justified what occurred, better come up with another one.

 

[Clonamery]

If you think there’s a reason that justified what occurred, better come up with another one.

My 9 year old nephew cried and whined for 24 hours after the game. When he woke up on Tuesday, he went to school and he and his friends talked about the Celtics.

14 to go.

 

[Tony2046]

Neither “he sucked in practice” or “the flu flowed him down” would justify keeping your cornerback on the bench who played 98% of the snaps during the season when your defense is getting massacred.

“Hmmm...we’ve given up 90 points this quarter, and my defense is a complete mess, but Malcolm WAS feeling under the weather last week..” Uh, no.

If you think there’s a reason that justified what occurred, better come up with another one.

The point was that BB and or MP felt that the personnel they had on the field was better without Butler for whatever reason.

I think it was a match up reason. I think they didn't use Butler because Rowe was better in practice and a better matchup for their receivers. Replacing Richards with Butler schematically hurts the already hurting run defense. I don't think that saves the game.

13 to go.

 

[chasa]

The point was that BB and or MP felt that the personnel they had on the field was better without Butler for whatever reason.

I think it was a match up reason. I think they didn't use Butler because Rowe was better in practice and a better matchup for their receivers. Replacing Richards with Butler schematically hurts the already hurting run defense. I don't think that saves the game.

13 to go.

1.)Then they were incredibly wrong and got outcoached.
2.)Once again, he didn't end up being a better matchup.
3.)Butler should have been put back into his normal role when the whole defense fell apart without him.

 

[chasa]

If you had made a list of Most Indepensible Patriots the day prior to SB53, would Malcom Butler have been in your top 25? I’m starting to wonder if people were even paying attention during the 2017-18 season when he was not even an average player, let alone a solid cornerback. Rowe outplayed him for much of the season and his performance in the SB is being way overblown; he let up that long TD pass, though it’s not like Butler didn’t allow 6 TDs during the season (tied for third most in entire NFL). The entire defense was gashed because (a) they had a terrible pass rush due to not having any good pass rushers, and (b) they had even more terrible linebackers, and (c) their secondary, which masked an incredibly weak front 6/7 all season, finally broke due to the Eagles elite pass blocking, and their versatility and depth at skill positions. This defense had faced the Titans and Jaguars in the playoffs...those teams had very weak offenses.

This was not the most puzzling Belichick Super Bowl decision to me. That would be going for it on 4th and 11 in SB42 instead of a 48-yard (or so) field goal attempt. And both fourth down/field goal decisions in the second quarter of SB52 were also more puzzling. Kicking a FG on 4th and 1 at the Eagles eight, and then attempting a circus catch down the sidelines on 4th and 5 at the Eagles 35, both seem be in contrast to statistical probabilities for points. Those decisions there are biggest head scratchers for me. On 4th and 5, you attempt a 52 yard FG, and on 4th and 1 at the eight, you go for the seven points and hedge your bet with field position. These are basic football decisions they require little argument, yet it seems that due to the gravity of the game, Belichick has at times tried to be too smart when it comes to risk:reward, and made decisions that he would not have made during any other games.

Yes, I would have had him in my top 25 most indespensable players list, as would BB/MP because they had him play 98% of the snaps in the regular season. most on the defense. Seems like if they were going to make a change they should have done it sooner right?

Oh strange, why wouldn't BB put Rowe in for more snaps during the season if he was outplaying Butler by such a degree? Seems strange that BB would go away from his patented "Best players play" coaching style.

One play call, vs 60 minutes of no changing a wrong decision. They don't compare in the slightest. BB must have had a stroke before the superbowl, to think benching butler for 100% of the defensive snaps was the right thing to do. The defense looked like first game of the preaseason with new players in majors roles bad. because thats the defense we put on the field.
Biggest mistake in his career, bar none.

 

[Tunescribe]

Meh.

10 more to go

 

[chasa]

Meh.

10 more to go

are we coming up on another milestone?

 

[Clonamery]

are we coming up on another milestone?

Yeah, Steve Grogan's Birthday. Happy 65th.

 

[Joey007]

8 more to go.

Brian Hoyer is donning number 8 again, right?

 

[Clonamery]

8 more to go.

Brian Hoyer is donning number 8 again, right?

Most likely, Joey007.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Most likely, Joey007.

6 effing months of this thread.

Regards,
Chris

 

[aluminum seats]

My 9 year old nephew cried and whined for 24 hours after the game. When he woke up on Tuesday, he went to school and he and his friends talked about the Celtics.

14 to go.

And yet here you are.

 

[Kontradiction]

Did he suck in practice? Did the flu slow him down?

"we all knew he wouldn't start" , said McCourty.

Maybe BB thought he had the best players on the field. We'll never know if MB could have changed things.

All speculation of course but neither you or I truly know why he was benched. But you think you know there wasn't any reason that would justify it whereas I think BB may have had one.

19 more to go.

That was after the Patriots went into damage control. The initial reactions after the game by players like Rowe (who started in his place and went on to have a disastrous first two series) were much different. There are very few hypotheticals that anyone can come up with that would justify weakening the secondary (when the defensive front was already a massive question mark) for the entirety of the game that don't also include simply not dressing Butler at all. It was a huge mistake by the GOAT head coach and pivoting back to past accomplishments is irrelevant and an intellectually lazy way to defend him. Let's just admit it was a mistake with what we know right now and move along.