Mac or Zach?

[PatsFanInVa]

It is still way too early, but Wilson was always considered a boom or bust prospect. He has a lot of raw talent, but he only played great one year and it was against mediocre competition. There is always a chance he could be a complete bust. He may not be able to rise to the talent level against him.

You know, they all are... including no. 1 no. 1s. That's what the "I know everything about every prospect" crowd always is wrong about, the amount we can project into a different (pro) game from the college level. But yes, there are levels of predictability... I think it's perhaps safer to try to get a smart, accurate guy with a downside of game manager and an upside of always-finds-a-way-to-win.... than to hit it out of the park with the athletic gifts, whether big arm or ridiculous legs, or a combo pack. In fact, with the Brady example hanging out there (still), it's embarassing to see teams continuing to swing for the fences. They want to win highlight shows, not games or championships.

Could you imagine if Darnold has a decent career with the Panthers and Wilson ends up being a bust?

I actually think the JEST have a self-correcting mechanism to prevent them ruining too much of a guy's career. They move on to the next first round messiah providing the Darnolds of the world (and probably soon, the Wilsons of the world,) a new lease on life.

Consider the next iteration, the decline of Saleh (perhaps he should win a game before we talk about his decline. Just to keep up appearances.) Well, the next JETE head coach will, of course, want his fortunes to rise and fall by the franchise QB he drafts, after a year of the sunk-cost fallacy with Wilson.

An embittered Wilson will go on to make his fortune (or not) somewhere else in the league, from the looks of things, usually somewhere in the NFC South.

Soon the entire NFC will be quarterbacked by guys that New England didn't give the job to and guys that the JETE did give the job to.

 

[Bill Lee]

It is still way too early, but Wilson was always considered a boom or bust prospect. He has a lot of raw talent, but he only played great one year and it was against mediocre competition. There is always a chance he could be a complete bust. He may not be able to rise to the talent level against him.

You know that, I know that, but da Jete don't seem to know that. They went all in on him. They burned the boats on the beach. They traded away Darnold. They don't have a decent backup anywhere in the building. He is their plans A, B and C.

Could you imagine if Darnold has a decent career with the Panthers and Wilson ends up being a bust?

Absolutely. Darnit is already showing improvement just by getting away from da Jete. Now Wilfson is not only stuck with da Jete, but they've left themselves no option but to run him into the ground. I hope he's banking those game checks, pretty soon he's going to be doing whatever it is Sanchez, Gee-No! Smith and the rest of them are doing with their lives!

 

[NewEraWithMac]

You know that, I know that, but da Jete don't seem to know that. They went all in on him. They burned the boats on the beach. They traded away Darnold. They don't have a decent backup anywhere in the building. He is their plans A, B and C.


Absolutely. Darnit is already showing improvement just by getting away from da Jete. Now Wilfson is not only stuck with da Jete, but they've left themselves no option but to run him into the ground. I hope he's banking those game checks, pretty soon he's going to be doing whatever it is Sanchez, Gee-No! Smith and the rest of them are doing with their lives!

They also had no one to push him and handed him the job knowing their rebuild was in the early phases. Very dumb. I'll give Belichick credit for at least using Newton to pretend there was a competition here. They're kinda was, but this "he's my QB" all summer was obvious posturing. As for NY, , the Jets haven't built from scratch correctly, not only in the Cap Era, but since the NFL merger in 1970. They're that arrogant and that bad in terms of not getting it. They think a new shiny hyped up toy gets a green jersey and it will somehow be different. They don't get the sport.

How in the world Zach Wilson got that hype as an 8-8 player and playing against Div 2 level opponents who looks small, needs bootlegs to function and chucks it deep on broken plays in college to succeed, is beyond me. It's nice to have a QB with athleticism like Mahomes who can do that when needed, but that can't be how your QB needs to play on most snaps. But, many talking heads took the cheese, from Chris Simms, to really anyone. I saw very little commentary on his glaring red flags, including his mommy wanting to use her son to gain attention for herself.

If Wilson was available at 15, I don't think Belichick would have drafted him.

 

[Bill Lee]

They also had no one to push him and handed him the job knowing their rebuild was in the early phases. Very dumb. I'll give Belichick credit for at least using Newton to pretend there was a competition here. They're kinda was, but this "he's my QB" all summer was obvious posturing. As for NY, , the Jets haven't built from scratch correctly, not only in the Cap Era, but since the NFL merger in 1970. They're that arrogant and that bad in terms of not getting it. They think a new shiny hyped up toy gets a green jersey and it will somehow be different. They don't get the sport.

How in the world Zach Wilson got that hype as an 8-8 player and playing against Div 2 level opponents who looks small, needs bootlegs to function and chucks it deep on broken plays in college to succeed, is beyond me. It's nice to have a QB with athleticism like Mahomes who can do that when needed, but that can't be how your QB needs to play on most snaps. But, many talking heads took the cheese, from Chris Simms, to really anyone. I saw very little commentary on his glaring red flags, including his mommy wanting to use her son to gain attention for herself.

If Wilson was available at 15, I don't think Belichick would have drafted him.

Add that to a rookie head coach, no true veteran QB for a positive role model, no credible "relief pitcher" to throw in so things don't get so crushingly embarrassing for the kid.

As you point out this kid is from a Div 2 school and must be feeling incredible pressure, da Jete have given him nothing to help him cope.

Da Jete have outdone themselves in ****ing things up, ****ed up beyond all recognition.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Add that to a rookie head coach, no true veteran QB for a positive role model, no credible "relief pitcher" to throw in so things don't get so crushingly embarrassing for the kid.

As you point out this kid is from a Div 2 school and must be feeling incredible pressure, da Jete have given him nothing to help him cope.

Da Jete have outdone themselves in ****ing things up, ****ed up beyond all recognition.

I meant his competition was Div 2. Troy, Coastal Carolina, Texas State. It's bizarre to think his film would somehow be a precursor to slowly seeing him build into a pocket passer in the NFL. I mean, how this happened I don't know. We live in a strange world right now. Throw in Covid last year and you can't judge anything, really. I say the same thing about Josh Allen. 2 bad/middling seasons and then he looks better during a time of discombobulation. We don't know with him either. I think people see Wilson's fluid release and big arm, but honestly, people should know better. It's not enough vs an NFL D.

If you're bootlegging to bide him time, it means he doesn't have pocket presence. That's a play you run as a surprise or a wrinkle as a one-off.

 

[mgteich]

When SF supposedly wanted Jones, we were disappointed. Surely, we wouldn't come close to what it would have taken to get him. And then, after serious risk by Belichick after Chicago moved up for Fields, he got his man.

Yes, I think that Belichick is fine with Jones (and would have been fine with Fields). And yes, I think that both are likely to have better careers than those chosen before them. In any case, CHI and NE needed a quarterback NOW, not when the top three might be top QB's.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

When SF supposedly wanted Jones, we were disappointed. Surely, we wouldn't come close to what it would have taken to get him. And then, after serious risk by Belichick after Chicago moved up for Fields, he got his man.

Yes, I think that Belichick is fine with Jones (and would have been fine with Fields). And yes, I think that both are likely to have better careers than those chosen before them.

I don't buy it. I don't think Fields was on their draft board either. BB would have passed on Wilson and Fields and looked elsewhere.

 

[Bill Lee]

I meant his competition was Div 2. Troy, Coastal Carolina, Texas State. It's bizarre to think his film would somehow be a precursor to slowly seeing him build into a pocket passer in the NFL. I mean, how this happened I don't know. We live in a strange world right now. Throw in Covid last year and you can't judge anything, really. I say the same thing about Josh Allen. 2 bad/middling seasons and then he looks better during a time of discombobulation. We don't know with him either. I think people see Wilson's fluid release and big arm, but honestly, people should know better. It's not enough vs an NFL D.

If you're bootlegging to bide him time, it means he doesn't have pocket presence. That's a play you run as a surprise or a wrinkle as a one-off.

Thing is, you only bring in a developmental QB if you already know you're good at developing QBs, or at least have a strong reason to think you are. NYJ have no reason to think they're good at that. Their biggest failure is at self-evaluation.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Thing is, you only bring in a developmental QB if you already know you're good at developing QBs, or at least have a strong reason to think you are. NYJ have no reason to think they're good at that. Their biggest failure is at self-evaluation.

Exactly. The Jets think whoever they pick, somehow it's fantastic. It's a narcissism thing. Even when they claim to have a good or great player, it's not true. It's just not some complete embarrassment which is the norm. They can't hit on anything, really.

Right now, that player is Quinnen Williams. He's not that good, but they've been so bad at top 10 picks, they try to tell everyone he's really good. He's average.

 

[mgteich]

I don't buy it. I don't think Fields was on their draft board either. BB would have passed on Wilson and Fields and looked elsewhere.

OK, so you think that we would have gone with a 2nd or 3rd rounder and Newton. We had many dozens of these threads in the off-season. Let me simply say that I strongly disagree. I think that Belichick would have drafted any of the top 5 at 15. As I pointed out many times, I was a bit surprised that we didn't trade up after CHI drafted Fields.

HOWEVER, if Belichick had ONLY Jones of the top 5 on his draft board, then I would have expected him to move up to make sure that he got his man, probably with same kind of deal that CHI did.

 

[Bill Lee]

OK, so you think that we would have gone with a 2nd or 3rd rounder and Newton. We had many dozens of these threads in the off-season. Let me simply say that I strongly disagree. I think that Belichick would have drafted any of the top 5 at 15. As I pointed out many times, I was a bit surprised that we didn't trade up after CHI drafted Fields.

HOWEVER, if Belichick had ONLY Jones of the top 5 on his draft board, then I would have expected him to move up to make sure that he got his man, probably with same kind of deal that CHI did.

I'm in the camp that says Bill was fully ready to go with Cam this year in a ground and pound offset, and was gonna take BPA at 15. Lucky for us, Mac was that BPA and he beat Cam out. IMO we're more or less a year ahead of schedule. I think Bill was expecting this to be another rebuilding season and would have made his move for a long term QB next off season. Bringing in all the FAs in the off season was really just the start of the rebuild. We'll see a lot of older players leave this off season, IMO.

 

[BigPeteG]

They also had no one to push him and handed him the job knowing their rebuild was in the early phases. Very dumb. I'll give Belichick credit for at least using Newton to pretend there was a competition here. They're kinda was, but this "he's my QB" all summer was obvious posturing. As for NY, , the Jets haven't built from scratch correctly, not only in the Cap Era, but since the NFL merger in 1970. They're that arrogant and that bad in terms of not getting it. They think a new shiny hyped up toy gets a green jersey and it will somehow be different. They don't get the sport.

How in the world Zach Wilson got that hype as an 8-8 player and playing against Div 2 level opponents who looks small, needs bootlegs to function and chucks it deep on broken plays in college to succeed, is beyond me. It's nice to have a QB with athleticism like Mahomes who can do that when needed, but that can't be how your QB needs to play on most snaps. But, many talking heads took the cheese, from Chris Simms, to really anyone. I saw very little commentary on his glaring red flags, including his mommy wanting to use her son to gain attention for herself.

If Wilson was available at 15, I don't think Belichick would have drafted him.

LMAO. If we had Wilson - he would play well for us. The guy has good wheels and good arm - and he can make all the throws. Patriots defense confused him and the scheme put in for him was too advanced for him. After he escapes the Jets - he will improve. Jets will have another high pick in the draft and they can get Bryce Young Matt Coral - or whoever the hot guy is..

Bill even with a sharp QB from a pro system dumbs it down a lot - so you can hardly make a mistake. Wilson doesn't get this - he was thrown to the wolves.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

OK, so you think that we would have gone with a 2nd or 3rd rounder and Newton. We had many dozens of these threads in the off-season. Let me simply say that I strongly disagree. I think that Belichick would have drafted any of the top 5 at 15. As I pointed out many times, I was a bit surprised that we didn't trade up after CHI drafted Fields.

HOWEVER, if Belichick had ONLY Jones of the top 5 on his draft board, then I would have expected him to move up to make sure that he got his man, probably with same kind of deal that CHI did.

I do and I never liked Newton and obviously hated his horrible play last year, but yes.

BB was never going to just hand over the new QB spot to anyone. I also think the FA push was intended to support Cam, even though I don't get the loyalty to Cam. I think he secretly hoped Mac would impress him by constantly saying "Cam is my QB". I think it worked, at least worked enough to start something with Mac. Mac Jones happened to fall to 15 and I have no idea how. There is this fixation on thinking a guy who runs out of the pocket somehow makes a good QB and I don't agree with it and I don't think BB does either. It's a nice bonus to make plays on the run, but it's also a risk. I want the ball out to the right guy, on time and accurate. That's it. Arm strength is probably 3rd or 4th on my list.

Keep in mind, Mahomes was hurt twice in the last 2 years. The knee in 2019 and the toe problem in 2020 and each injury hurt him in the SB. He wasn't good. He played through it, but it also affected him, too. I don't want that as the backdrop of a Pats QB here and I don't believe BB wants to change his system.

I think Stidham, Newton, Hoyer and another draft pick like a Davis Mills would have been in camp.

I stand by my analysis. Trey Lance, same thing. Fields, same thing. These guys aren't that good. They had success in college where you can hide certain deficiencies a lot easier. They have athleticism and an arm. That's it. They're not cerebral and don't fit what BB wants in this system.

Wilson played horrible Div 2 level competition during a pandemic. I said the same thing about Josh Allen's season last year. He helped Buffalo win games during a weird year. I think his previous 2 years are closer to who Josh Allen is. You can look good in a discombobulated or weakened environment and take advantage. He did and give Allen credit.

Context is important.

I think BB would have had Stidham and someone like a Davis Mills competing and planning for 2022 if Jones didn't hilariously fall into his lap.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

LMAO. If we had Wilson - he would play well for us. The guy has good wheels and good arm - and he can make all the throws. Patriots defense confused him and the scheme put in for him was too advanced for him. After he escapes the Jets - he will improve. Jets will have another high pick in the draft and they can get Bryce Young Matt Coral - or whoever the hot guy is..

Bill even with a sharp QB from a pro system dumbs it down a lot - so you can hardly make a mistake. Wilson doesn't get this - he was thrown to the wolves.

No offense, but wheels and arm is not what I want. I've heard about that for 20 years in this league and the QB is either a big disappointment or a bust outright.

It has to be more than just those 2 things. I do agree BB would have Wilson better protected than in NY, but I never liked Wilson and have explained my reasoning.

 

[slash83]

LMAO. If we had Wilson - he would play well for us. The guy has good wheels and good arm - and he can make all the throws. Patriots defense confused him and the scheme put in for him was too advanced for him. After he escapes the Jets - he will improve. Jets will have another high pick in the draft and they can get Bryce Young Matt Coral - or whoever the hot guy is..

Bill even with a sharp QB from a pro system dumbs it down a lot - so you can hardly make a mistake. Wilson doesn't get this - he was thrown to the wolves.

From what I read the pats defense played basic vanilla defenses and predictably let Wilson **** the bed. He even said in an interview after the game there was no disguising coming from the Patriots defense.

they never needed to…

 

[ctpatsfan77]

 

[Joker]

Hey JF79...still hungover or what???

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

What’s incredible is the absolute clinic the Jets are giving on how to ruin a quarterback. You may have to rewind the highlight clip a few times, but I think it’s clear Wilson isn’t even to blame here. These aren’t errant throws or poorly read coverages. They are all miscommunications with the wide receivers, and it seems like ****ty routes run by the wide receivers. What’s amazing is how after an entire training camp, the QB and WRs are totally out of sync like they’ve never met each other.

Interception 1 - Not Wilson’s fault. Horrendous route run by Corey Davis, who lazily rounds off the cut instead of coming back for the ball over the middle. On the replay, you can see Wilson’s perspective…Davis completely fails to position himself in front of Jackson and looks like he’s on ice skates. Wilson’s pass goes to where Davis was supposed to sit, but Davis is way behind it, and it gets tipped for an INT.

Interception 2 - Not Wilson’s fault…this time Davis is running towards the sidelines with a little separation. The ball glides right through his hands, sails, and gets picked. The announcer immediately cries “Wilson…trying to be too aggressive” as though throwing a perfect pass, where only Davis could catch it, was a bad decision or an inaccurate throw.

Interception 3 - Unknown fault. Wilson thinks Moore will sit for the ball; Moore has a totally different idea. Incredible how little effort Moore gives in trying to recover.

Interception 4 - Unknown fault. Another miscommunication. Wilson thinks a receiver is running a certain route, but he doesn’t.

Now the moron Jets are saying Wilson can learn to be “boring.” Well, none of those interceptions were thrown into double coverage, were risky throws, etc…in fact, none of them were even errant. He was mechanically sound on every one of them. The problem here is (a) Corey Davis’s errors leading directly to two INTs, and (b) lack of preparation/reps between Wilson and the wide receivers, as their communication is terrible.

 

[RIpats88]

Zach Wilson might be good, but the Jets are going to ruin him before he ever gets to that point.

Look at Sam Darnold. They threw him out like yesterday's trash. Now he's playing good football in Carolina. Apparently the only trash is the Jets roster

 

[BigPeteG]

What’s incredible is the absolute clinic the Jets are giving on how to ruin a quarterback. You may have to rewind the highlight clip a few times, but I think it’s clear Wilson isn’t even to blame here. These aren’t errant throws or poorly read coverages. They are all miscommunications with the wide receivers, and it seems like ****ty routes run by the wide receivers. What’s amazing is how after an entire training camp, the QB and WRs are totally out of sync like they’ve never met each other.

Interception 1 - Not Wilson’s fault. Horrendous route run by Corey Davis, who lazily rounds off the cut instead of coming back for the ball over the middle. On the replay, you can see Wilson’s perspective…Davis completely fails to position himself in front of Jackson and looks like he’s on ice skates. Wilson’s pass goes to where Davis was supposed to sit, but Davis is way behind it, and it gets tipped for an INT.

Interception 2 - Not Wilson’s fault…this time Davis is running towards the sidelines with a little separation. The ball glides right through his hands, sails, and gets picked. The announcer immediately cries “Wilson…trying to be too aggressive” as though throwing a perfect pass, where only Davis could catch it, was a bad decision or an inaccurate throw.

Interception 3 - Unknown fault. Wilson thinks Moore will sit for the ball; Moore has a totally different idea. Incredible how little effort Moore gives in trying to recover.

Interception 4 - Unknown fault. Another miscommunication. Wilson thinks a receiver is running a certain route, but he doesn’t.

Now the moron Jets are saying Wilson can learn to be “boring.” Well, none of those interceptions were thrown into double coverage, were risky throws, etc…in fact, none of them were even errant. He was mechanically sound on every one of them. The problem here is (a) Corey Davis’s errors leading directly to two INTs, and (b) lack of preparation/reps between Wilson and the wide receivers, as their communication is terrible.

This. Truth is we would have picked Wilson if he was available at 15 and Mac had gone third or whatever.. And he would be a budding star under McDaniels/BB. Sometimes going higher in the draft is a curse. Like when the Jets pick you..