Mac or Zach?

[Jim Beam]

Dink and dunk

 

[Pats1971]

I think Mac is in a better situation obviously than Zack is, so I think he is going to have more early success because of that, where their careers will go? I have no idea. Its so hard to tell what players will be because I have seen players come in and be bad and then turn into superstars and I have seen guys come out like gangbusters and then fade away. Like Wentz was an mvp canidate early on, now he is just trying to make his way on a new team. Media and fans always are going to jump right to the end of what a player is, and rarely is that ever the case.

 

[jlu52]

Dink and dunk

Hitting your namesake early, eh, jetester?

 

[PATSNUTme]

Based on what I saw last week, Mac the Knife is better within in offense.
Wilson did not do very well until the play broke down, then he was better scrambling and throwing on the run.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Here are the flaws with Wilson and what I don't see with Jones:

1. Wilson has happy feet. Really happy feet. He's very quick to leave the pocket. He did it all last week, too. It's one thing to have an iffy OL to explain why he's quick to leave the pocket, but there is little sign of himi staying in and shuffling forward like Mac does a la Brady and all the greats. Also, he ran more than I thought in college and Mac only runs when he really has to.
2. While the same size as Mac, he plays small. Watch some highlights from his BYU days.
3. Wilson has a stronger arm than Jones, but he's not as accurate.
4. Wilson needs to use bootlegs and RPOs to be able to bide time and to be able to function. Those aren't one-offs either, it's part of his pattern of play.

And, I am sorry, but the quality of competition is not remotely comparable. The Trey Lance hype is as confusing as the Zach Pretty Boy Wilson hype, IMO. It's a bizarre world we live in where people just repeat things they've seen or heard on social media, and just latch on, without really doing any research.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Based on what I saw last week, Mac the Knife is better within in offense.
Wilson did not do very well until the play broke down, then he was better scrambling and throwing on the run.

He did that at BYU, too. The quality of the OL is not relevant, IMO. He's an on the run to the right guy. Stack the edge and just hold it, and he'll eventually look to scramble down the middle, or left. They need to use the Vick/Roethlisberger/Mahomes gameplan. That's why Pats Ds have always done well against those QBs. They want to run laterally to bide more time and make plays off broken plays instead of going through the progressions quickly.

 

[Pats1971]

He did that at BYU, too. The quality of the OL is not relevant, IMO. He's an on the run to the right guy. Stack the edge and just hold it, and he'll eventually look to scramble down the middle, or left. They need to use the Vick/Roethlisberger/Mahomes gameplan. That's why Pats Ds have always done well against those QBs. They want to run laterally to bide more time and make plays off broken plays instead of going through the progressions quickly.

Has the pats ever held Mahomes under 30 points? Maybe thats not the right example. Running QB's used to kill us.

 

[masterbouncer]

Has the pats ever held Mahomes under 30 points? Maybe thats not the right example. Running QB's used to kill us.

yes they did...

2019 Season, Week 14 Chiefs won @Pats 23-16
2020 Season, Week 4 Chiefs won @home 26-10

both times Mahomes was below 285 passing yards and below 30 yards rushing
problem was the offense not the defense

 

[venecol]

The quality of the OL is not relevant, IMO. He's an on the run to the right guy. Stack the edge and just hold it, and he'll eventually look to scramble down the middle.

Jets OL was ranked #22 on WK 1. Pats was #5. OL matters. If Pats OL didn't do a half decent job at pass protection, Mac gets sacked 4 times on Sunday.

 

[farn]

Just expanding the discussion a little bit, it's actually interesting to consider that all 4 QBs in the ACFE may actually be pretty good.

1. Mac - seems to be the best mentally, good touch and able to produce under pressure; confident as a MF
2. Zach - the best from a pure arm talent perspective, no throw he can't make; will he be productive at this level of competition?
3. Tua - when he's throwing quick, it looks pretty good, and he's good with the RPO; but he's small, and when the play takes longer it seems to fall apart
4. Josh - the prototype for an NFL QB from a build perspective; can make the throws and also run you over. Looked very good last year but was crap prior, let's see if it sustains

Even MORE interesting if the one who doesn’t pan out is josh A. So far he’s had one fabulous year.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Jets OL was ranked #22 on WK 1. Pats was #5. OL matters. If Pats OL didn't do a half decent job at pass protection, Mac gets sacked 4 times on Sunday.

I agree, but when I said that I meant when discussing Wilson's flaws that he brought into the NFL. That's why I was referencing his play at BYU.

I fully understand the Jets OL and the Jets organization sucks and probably always will as long as Woody Johnson owns it, but Evan lazar posted that clip of him staring down Davis to the right side, with 2 guys wide open underneath. I mean, I would have done a better job there. He had time and just never got off his first, easier read. The throw was high and a bit wild.

Jones is better in every way, IMO. It's a mystery why most would claim Wilson is better than Jones in every category except the arm strength.

My point is, he plays right or straight down the field. He doesn't go through progressions which is one of the first things I look for in a prospect. If he's not already in the habit of doing that, it's a major risk to think he'll start doing it at the NFL level. It's why Lamar Jackson sucks and will never win anything. He can't throw consistently so they hide it, like a Tebow.

Wilson has a great arm, certainly looks the part. Reminds of a Cutler. Cutler meets Flacco.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Has the pats ever held Mahomes under 30 points? Maybe thats not the right example. Running QB's used to kill us.

I think so. The 2019 bagjob where Gilmore had the scoop and score blown dead (evben though everyone knows you don't blow a whistle there for that very reason) and the Harry TD that miraculously wasn't, in that creepy game, they allowed 23. In the AFC Title game before the illegal pick or that Brady INT off Edelman's hands, they were about to do it.

Last year, they were incredible with no offense allowing 6 points at the half.

I am just saying, they have their number. You simply double Hill on every down, don't ever not double him (the opener in '18 when they failed to do that, they actually played really well in that first half I believe, allowing 9 pts I think), put your fastest guy underneath like Jon Jones and a high Safety over the top. And, they do a nice job on Kelce, too. Always have.

If you can hold KC to 25 or under, that's a success in my book.

 

[rochrist]

Don't confuse Triumph was facts!

 

[rochrist]

This is rich coming from the person who sh*ts all over Rodgers, Mahomes, etc, anytime someone points out that they’re talented QBs.

Apparently talented QBs are only talented when they aren’t being compared to Brady.

Rodgers may be talented, but he has all the heart of a meadow vole alongside the ego of Jerry Jones.

 

[Kasmir]

Don't confuse Triumph was facts!

Yeah and the knock on Mac was that the only reason he set the all time NCAA single season completion record (77%) was because he had world class receivers. So he sets another completion % record (74%) in his first NFL start, but this with what many here believe is a receiver group that is as bad as can be.

 

[NewEraWithMac]

Yeah and the knock on Mac was that the only reason he set the all time NCAA single season completion record (77%) was because he had world class receivers. So he sets another completion % record (74%) in his first NFL start, but this with what many here believe is a receiver group that is as bad as can be.

That also proves something else. WR talent can come a variety of ways. It's not just some super physically gifted player.

And, if you compare 77% in college over the year, and granted just 1 game in the NFL at 74%, that's the same kind of a thing on a scale.

 

[Joker]

Rochrist...using "meadow vole" as a metaphor is top shelf. I think if you asked the man on the street of Southie what a vole is he'd say a pipeful of the chronic...and then jump up on a kitchen chair from fright when he actually saw one...

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Mac

 

[Brick27]

Yikes. Not a great start for what’s been a trash duo of Wilson and the sh*thole Jets organization.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Jets with Zach Wilson 0-2
Darnold 2-0