Mac Jones working out with Nic Shimonek on his strength and conditioning

[moosekill]

You can point to games in Mac Jones' rookie year where he outplayed Zappe. And you can point to games in his second year where he outplayed Zappe. If Zappe was remotely as good as some people on this board make his play out to be, he would have started over Jones most of last year. If Belichick could pick a sixth round draft pick over a QB he just gave a top of the market extension in the offseason, he most certainly would have benched Jones over Zappe if he truly thought Zappe was clearly better.

This simply isn’t true based upon anything we have ever seen from Bill. Zappe played very well for a substitute rookie. Bill didnt play Brady ahead of Bledsoe his first or second year, until Drew was hurt. he didn’t bench Cam part way through the season when he was sucking. If you are going to make **** up at least get some facts correct. One of the two will be better this preseason. My guess is Mac has both a higher ceiling and will outplay Zappe in the preseason, but I would have said the same thing about Drew Brady’s second year. But of course Drew won the starting qb position that year too.

 

[sb1]

Zappe played very well for a substitute rookie

Brock Purdy played “very well” for a substitute rookie. Zappe was ok but that’s about it.

Mac might not be the guy but that doesn’t translate to Zappe being the guy, there’s no evidence of that at all. I don’t see a difference between Zappe and Mike White or Cooper Rush who also are low ceiling backup quality QBs who can start for a game or two but not for more than that.

 

[sb1]

He better have a better arm than BZ or it’s over for him.

Zappe has a very weak arm. It’s why he fell all the way to the 4th round. I’d guess if the Patriots didn’t pick him he would have fallen further.

 

[Brotherblues]

Zappe has a very weak arm. It’s why he fell all the way to the 4th round. I’d guess if the Patriots didn’t pick him he would have fallen further.

At *least* one pick further

 

[moosekill]

Brock Purdy played “very well” for a substitute rookie. Zappe was ok but that’s about it.

Mac might not be the guy but that doesn’t translate to Zappe being the guy, there’s no evidence of that at all. I don’t see a difference between Zappe and Mike White or Cooper Rush who also are low ceiling backup quality QBs who can start for a game or two but not for more than that.

San Fran was not the complete cluster New England was, they have a very good team. Purdy played very well for any qb, regardless of age. Zappe played very well for a rookie qb, let alone one who came in during the **** show that was New england.

 

[Real fan 02]

If you love him so much then why didn't you try to - gee I don't know - protect him better and not commit so many stupid ****ing penalties, you ****ing lazy, fat pile of poo?

Bill really, Really needs to tell this guy to either accept a Massive paycut or hit the ****ing bricks.

Wow! That's some harsh words lol.. they guy got his ring, got paid and quit... that sums up Trent brown... no need to verbally assault the guy..

 

[sb1]

San Fran was not the complete cluster New England was, they have a very good team. Purdy played very well for any qb, regardless of age. Zappe played very well for a rookie qb, let alone one who came in during the **** show that was New england.

Good point. I'm sure he will get a shot in camp competing with Mac for the job.

 

[Rob0729]

It is hard for me to understand how the play calling or the "concepts he had to work with" caused Mac to have a poor pocket presence and poor footwork. I can not see how those issues are linked. Audibles/protections made Mac's feet shuffle the wrong way???? Maybe you can help me here.

I am a Mac supporter, and think he is a nice person. But Mac's pocket presence, footwork, and mechanics can not be blamed on audibles and concepts can they? Curiously, Phil Perry reported that Mac was the 5th best QB in the NFL when he had a clean pocket. Makes sense to me - Mac is great when he does not have to alter his footwork, or pocket presence. I think better concepts and audibles will help, but if Mac does not also improve his own mechanics and jitters, we need another guy.

"If not all of it will be fixed this season"? It is great to know that even @Ian gets hammered and posts from time to time.

Well, the Patricia offense didn’t allow for pre snap offensive line adjustments. So Jones was constantly under pressure. And it was clear he didn’t trust the o-line which probably made him take off more. And the Pats did little to keep pressure off of Jones with incredibly predictable plays, little to no ability for Jones to change the play presnap, and next to no play-action under center. He also was dealing with his high ankle sprain.

Also, Jones was desperate to fix the completely broken offense. Maybe he felt (incorrectly) that the only way to fix it was to become a mobile QB who took off from the pocket in the first sign of trouble.

Jones had above average footwork and pocket presence as a rookie. It was a strength of his his rookie year and in college. Everyone is looking at his second year and ignoring his rookie season. He wasn’t Brady in his ability to slide in the pocket, but he was pretty good.

And what you are describing as his issues wasn’t really an issue down the stretch either. The issues he had with pocket presence, footwork, and mechanics were really more of problem early and mid season and were mostly corrected down the stretch. The perception was still there for the entire season. He had bad plays here and there down the stretch with his pocket presence, but it was mostly corrected after Thanksgiving.

 

[PatsFan2]

It is hard for me to understand how the play calling or the "concepts he had to work with" caused Mac to have a poor pocket presence and poor footwork. I can not see how those issues are linked. Audibles/protections made Mac's feet shuffle the wrong way???? Maybe you can help me here.

I am a Mac supporter, and think he is a nice person. But Mac's pocket presence, footwork, and mechanics can not be blamed on audibles and concepts can they? Curiously, Phil Perry reported that Mac was the 5th best QB in the NFL when he had a clean pocket. Makes sense to me - Mac is great when he does not have to alter his footwork, or pocket presence. I think better concepts and audibles will help, but if Mac does not also improve his own mechanics and jitters, we need another guy.

"If not all of it will be fixed this season"? It is great to know that even @Ian gets hammered and posts from time to time.

Good post and that was my problem with Mac last year he panicked at any sign of pressure sometimes on fake Blitzes. He just didn't look comfortable at any sign of pressure look a the QB's in the SB both Defenses were Blitzing and both QB's wasn't fazed. It obvious to think that any success Mac will have is going to be dependent on the players around him. Mac needs things be a little too perfect like Drew Bledsoe.

 

[PatsFan2]

Well, the Patricia offense didn’t allow for pre snap offensive line adjustments. So Jones was constantly under pressure. And it was clear he didn’t trust the o-line which probably made him take off more. And the Pats did little to keep pressure off of Jones with incredibly predictable plays, little to no ability for Jones to change the play presnap, and next to no play-action under center. He also was dealing with his high ankle sprain.

Also, Jones was desperate to fix the completely broken offense. Maybe he felt (incorrectly) that the only way to fix it was to become a mobile QB who took off from the pocket in the first sign of trouble.

Jones had above average footwork and pocket presence as a rookie. It was a strength of his his rookie year and in college. Everyone is looking at his second year and ignoring his rookie season. He wasn’t Brady in his ability to slide in the pocket, but he was pretty good.

And what you are describing as his issues wasn’t really an issue down the stretch either. The issues he had with pocket presence, footwork, and mechanics were really more of problem early and mid season and were mostly corrected down the stretch. The perception was still there for the entire season. He had bad plays here and there down the stretch with his pocket presence, but it was mostly corrected after Thanksgiving.

Really I'll wait until after the upcoming Preseason to come to that conclusion.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Yep, remember his pics of being jacked and pumped before camp?

He didn't have any shirtless pics, so it was all smoke and mirrors. Once we see a 4-pack, then we know there's some progress. 8-pack, then you know it's Super Bowl MVP time.

 

[PatsFan2]

Zappe has a very weak arm. It’s why he fell all the way to the 4th round. I’d guess if the Patriots didn’t pick him he would have fallen further.

Really guess they don't know what they are talking about but they are right about one thing which we all saw his pocket presence.

Bailey Zappe Draft and Combine Prospect Profile | NFL.com

 

[PatsFan2]

Brock Purdy played “very well” for a substitute rookie. Zappe was ok but that’s about it.

Mac might not be the guy but that doesn’t translate to Zappe being the guy, there’s no evidence of that at all. I don’t see a difference between Zappe and Mike White or Cooper Rush who also are low ceiling backup quality QBs who can start for a game or two but not for more than that.

And I'm not sure Mac is not in that lower echelon group.

 

[Rob0729]

This simply isn’t true based upon anything we have ever seen from Bill. Zappe played very well for a substitute rookie. Bill didnt play Brady ahead of Bledsoe his first or second year, until Drew was hurt. he didn’t bench Cam part way through the season when he was sucking. If you are going to make **** up at least get some facts correct. One of the two will be better this preseason. My guess is Mac has both a higher ceiling and will outplay Zappe in the preseason, but I would have said the same thing about Drew Brady’s second year. But of course Drew won the starting qb position that year too.

Bill was a first year head coach in Brady's rookie season and Brady was the fourth QB. What happened in Brady's second season was the Patriots gave Bledsoe a $10 million a year contract which I think was the most a QB had ever gotten in 2001. Bledsoe went down. Brady stepped in and played well and when Bledsoe came back, Belichick stuck with Brady even though Bledsoe was considered one of the top QBs in the league at the time.

As for Cam, Belichick did go into the 2021 season with the intention of Newton to be the starter and Jones learn from the bench and eventually take over. Jones out played Newton by so much that not only did Belichick make Jones the day 1 starter, he cut Newton all together. As for

And as for the Zappe thing, Belichick is a six time world champion who has enough leeway as a head coach that he was able to put two coaches with next to zero offensive experience in charge of the offense with a second year QB and then allow them to completely change the system they were running even though the system was successful the year before. And you think if Belichick wouldn't have benched Jones for Zappe if he thought Zappe was better and could run Patricia's offense better?

 

[Rob0729]

 

[Triumph]

He didn't have any shirtless pics, so it was all smoke and mirrors. Once we see a 4-pack, then we know there's some progress. 8-pack, then you know it's Super Bowl MVP time.

He was flexing his guns.

Gun Show = 70 yard TD passes

 

[Ian]

It is hard for me to understand how the play calling or the "concepts he had to work with" caused Mac to have a poor pocket presence and poor footwork. I can not see how those issues are linked. Audibles/protections made Mac's feet shuffle the wrong way???? Maybe you can help me here.

I am a Mac supporter, and think he is a nice person. But Mac's pocket presence, footwork, and mechanics can not be blamed on audibles and concepts can they? Curiously, Phil Perry reported that Mac was the 5th best QB in the NFL when he had a clean pocket. Makes sense to me - Mac is great when he does not have to alter his footwork, or pocket presence. I think better concepts and audibles will help, but if Mac does not also improve his own mechanics and jitters, we need another guy.

"If not all of it will be fixed this season"? It is great to know that even @Ian gets hammered and posts from time to time.

Tough to focus on fundamentals when you don't have a lot of confidence in what you're doing, especially when you're constantly under duress. If you don't believe in the protections and you're constantly looking over your shoulder expecting to get hit, it's tough to play quarterback that way. He was solid against the blitz the previous year because I think he believed in the protections he was calling and the fact Josh set him up to be able to get the ball out quickly in those situations. I feel like he didn't have that this season.

That being said, he'll obviously have a much better guy helping him through it this season and we'll see how it goes. Like you said, if he doesn't take a step forward, then it's possible we could see a change before the year is out, whether it's Zappe or another veteran backup they bring in, which would certainly stink primarily because not having a long-term answer at QB is detrimental to any team.

As for getting hammered, LOL, definitely not during the week, and it's definitely a rarity. I'm 47 now, I don't recover as quickly at this age to be able to get up and function in the morning the next day

 

[Ian]

Wow! That's some harsh words lol.. they guy got his ring, got paid and quit... that sums up Trent brown... no need to verbally assault the guy..

@captain stone verbally assaults every guy. He's fair and balanced like that

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Tough to focus on fundamentals when you don't have a lot of confidence in what you're doing, especially when you're constantly under duress.

Mac was under duress but there were plenty of clean pockets within which he did very well. So more clean pockets are needed, but Mac will always be under duress to some extent and has to be able to deal with it. To date he has not shown the ability to adapt to the speed of the NFL when the pocket is not clean.

That being said, he'll obviously have a much better guy helping him through it this season and we'll see how it goes.

Agreed

As for getting hammered, LOL, definitely not during the week, and it's definitely a rarity. I'm 47 now, I don't recover as quickly at this age to be able to get up and function in the morning the next day

It was a joke, but it happens from time to time around these parts!!!

 

[Real fan 02]

@captain stone verbally assaults every guy. He's fair and balanced like that

Mac was under duress but there were plenty of clean pockets within which he did very well. So more clean pockets are needed, but Mac will always be under duress to some extent and has to be able to deal with it. To date he has not shown the ability to adapt to the speed of the NFL when the pocket is not clean.

Agreed

It was a joke, but it happens from time to time around these parts!!!

I look at the game this past season at jets Mac was under duress all game.. he made crucial 3rd down throws against that formidable front.. that game made me have even more respect for Mac to be able to hang in there and make those throws..

We all can agree last year was abysmally bad, and now year 3 looks to get back on track.. I want Mac to do well and take this team to the next level..