Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[Ian]

The Pats are not stuck right now.

Who enters this Miami game and plays QB if Mac gets hurt? Zappe.

BB is between a rock and a hard place though. Once you bench Mac, the dominoes begin to fall and especially with someone like him. If Zappe wins you've got a real problem on your hands.

It's sort of funny, last year at this time, I don't recall the ire being that bad and he's been better over this stretch #s wise this year than he was last year, which I hadn't realized, especially turnover-wise.

Obviously, Zappe playing was a nice reassurance that maybe they potentially have someone who can step in if they need somebody, which takes care of the uncertainty we had with Hoyer. Instead, it solved one problem but muddied the situation with Mac in a transition year where we were all hoping he'd have an opportunity to take a step forward. In all honesty, watching weeks 1-3 two nights ago, it wasn't as bad as I remembered it. The three picks in the Baltimore game capped it off but when you factor in that 4 of those 5 picks (2 of 3 against the Ravens) were on attempts to Parker, that added some context. Albeit, I'd put 2 of 5 of them on Mac - he's not without blame.

But Belichick playing him against the Bears was a massive mistake, because that night really split the fan base and likely affected Mac's performance until Belichick ultimately got things back under control. Yes, I get that he should be able to handle it. It doesn't change the fact that 60k people screaming for the other guy likely didn't sit well. That apparently happened recently at Gillette against Cincy but we couldn't - or at least I couldn't - audibly hear it on the broadcast. We heard it clearly that night. He's put in the work and he's making the effort, but the fact he hasn't had someone who really understands an offense pushing him this year has also likely held him back.

Clearly, he's not Brady. He's not an elite QB, certainly not yet and maybe he won't be, I have zero idea. And yes, that's what we are "stuck with" right now because, to put it in perspective - if you want to make the parallel comparison - Zappe is essentially 2000 Brady. 2000 Brady wouldn't have taken us anywhere.

That's not to say he can't emerge at some point. Again, with a full offseason and a chance to get stronger, he could become a factor later on. But the mindset, for people who are fans of the team, should be to at least support the guy under center and hope he plays well so the team wins. We'll have the whole offseason to complain, and by the next training camp, it will be a more competitive situation if that's ultimately what it comes down to.

But actively rooting against the guy is a little mindblowing. Not saying you're necessarily doing that, but it's happening enough where I'm just shocked it's even going on. Like I said, definitely never would have imagined it would've happened. It's certainly a little crazy.

 

[archstanton543]

Just ran these. He's actually a little better than he was last season. Not fantastic, but fewer turnovers:

Well, it's not the same. He played different teams in that stretch.

Apples to oranges unless the point is that he has trouble in the latter half of the football season in general....but again, each year he's going to be playing different teams (unless it's a fluky schedule).

 

[Ian]

Well, it's not the same. He played different teams in that stretch.

Apples to oranges unless the point is that he has trouble in the latter half of the football season in general....but again, each year he's going to be playing different teams (unless it's a fluky schedule).

You're right, it's not - it's a snapshot of time of where he was this year compared to last year over the same span in the season. Again, people can treat it however they want.

 

[crawhammer]

That game isn't in the above total - it's the same 5-game span they're currently in.

Regardless, you're comparing this season to last season, and suggesting Mac is better at this point in the season than where he was last season. So he's improving? That's what you're getting at?

I'm pointing out that he mostly wasn't good at this time last season. He really wasn't very good after week 12 except for one game. Furthermore he was only impressive during that 7-game winning streak. He hasn't had a stretch this season anywhere close to that.

But anyway I think the narrative that Mac was improving and overall playing better under McDaniels is overblown. Considering his worst third of the season was his last. He wasn't playing well then and for the most part that subpar play has carried through the entirety of this season under Patricia. So while Patricia definitely sucks at his job, Mac hasn't been playing well since week 12 of last season (with McDaniels).

 

[ahmed]

At the end of the day, we're stuck with "good" or average until great falls back into our laps. "It is what it is."

My biggest worry. I do not want to settle for good or average as you have way less margin for error and you need to get everything elsw right and even if you do that never lasts more than a season or 2.

I would rather cycle through a QB every 3 years till you land with great than have Carr or Cousins.

 

[ahmed]

Part of it is they are being way more conservative with him lately except last half so less chances for mistakes. They lost complete faith in him not to turn ball over IMO which is the reason for so many behind LOS passes

He also seemed to get the team to score more last year which he is incapable of this year.

 

[Ian]

My biggest worry. I do not want to settle for good or average as you have way less margin for error and you need to get everything elsw right and even if you do that never lasts more than a season or 2.

I would rather cycle through a QB every 3 years till you land with great than have Carr or Cousins.

You can do that, but you still have to line somebody up each Sunday. And you still have to give him every opportunity to succeed and support them even during a downturn to weather adversity until you're comfortable enough to move on. Bad teams arbitrarily bounce between two - or more - guys during a season, and I can't think of one scenario where that's worked out in a positive way.

 

[Ian]

Part of it is they are being way more conservative with him lately except last half so less chances for mistakes. They lost complete faith in him not to turn ball over IMO which is the reason for so many behind LOS passes

He also seemed to get the team to score more last year which he is incapable of this year.

They were more aggressive last year, and McDaniels didn't bail on him when things got tough. I've used this example repeatedly, but it's honestly true. Go back to the Dallas pick six last year. McDaniels came right back and called the deep play to Bourne. That's the difference between Patricia and Jones vs McDaniels and Jones. Far more mutual trust - or at least that's how it appeared.

 

[ahmed]

You can do that, but you still have to line somebody up each Sunday. And you still have to give him every opportunity to succeed and support them even during a downturn to weather adversity until you're comfortable enough to move on. Bad teams arbitrarily bounce between two - or more - guys during a season, and I can't think of one scenario where that's worked out in a positive way.

Agree which is why I said every 3 years. To me that's enough to know what you have in your QB. If you don't know by then he can be elite then move on.

Even though I don't think Mac is the guy I would still give him 3 years to prove himself.

 

[Ian]

Agree which is why I said every 3 years. To me that's enough to know what you have in your QB. If you don't know by then he can be elite then move on.

Even though I don't think Mac is the guy I would still give him 3 years to prove himself.

Sorry, I knew what you meant - I just didn't say it as well as I would have liked. I just meant that you still need to fully commit to the player over that span and obviously keep developing somebody behind them until you find the guy.

That's a discussion that's come up and you can go multiple years seeing guys drafted with some entire classes that never pan out. It's so rare to land an elite guy, and I think the hope was that they could build a top defense and have a guy who could do just enough to potentially win with. After last year, it seemed like the answer was maybe but we're about to be 17 weeks in and it doesn't feel like we've learned much one way or the other. Definitely been a weird year.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think it's good to always have an eye on the reality. Not what we wish, not the tantrum we want to throw, but the reality. The reality is that, right now, Mac's a "1 TD a game (and .2 interceptions/game)" QB, taking these last 5 games as the sample size. (That window is not an insane one, given events, but it's what I'd call... convenient.)

I agree that he's what we have now, and I'll go further.

This fan base is accustomed to having the best QB. Not just the best in the division or the best in the conference, the best in football evah. We're used to making fun of pretty good QBs, well, we can't now. We have a lower-half QB, who was a middle-of-the-pack QB in his rookie year (PS, that's a big deal... but only if you get better after that.)

It's not that everybody wants to accept a mediocre performance, whatever the position. It's not just a matter of what we can ball up our fists and demand, it's a matter of who we can put on the field. Traditionally, you can only play guys signed with your team.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Sorry, I knew what you meant - I just didn't say it as well as I would have liked. I just meant that you still need to fully commit to the player over that span and obviously keep developing somebody behind them until you find the guy.

That's a discussion that's come up and you can go multiple years seeing guys drafted with some entire classes that never pan out. It's so rare to land an elite guy, and I think the hope was that they could build a top defense and have a guy who could do just enough to potentially win with. After last year, it seemed like the answer was maybe but we're about to be 17 weeks in and it doesn't feel like we've learned much one way or the other. Definitely been a weird year.

This, so much it hurt. I WANT all sorts of things... what's the best I can make of what I can get?

 

[Jim Beankie]

Just ran these. He's actually a little better than he was last season. Not fantastic, but fewer turnovers:

That's even with the game against the former OC, who must know every weakness, and it showed (41% comp for 112yds). Almost a miracle he didn't throw an INT.

 

[venecol]

That's a discussion that's come up and you can go multiple years seeing guys drafted with some entire classes that never pan out. It's so rare to land an elite guy, and I think the hope was that they could build a top defense and have a guy who could do just enough to potentially win with. After last year, it seemed like the answer was maybe but we're about to be 17 weeks in and it doesn't feel like we've learned much one way or the other. Definitely been a weird year.

This is the hope of those that believe Belichick can win with just a guy along with, like you say, a strong defense.

I'm not one of those that believes this or even relies on hope as a source of fandom. I believe in facts, and the fact is that Belichick hasn't done anything to make us believe he can win with just a guy. I also believe in the fact that you need "the guy" to win. This has been proven by history, albeit the very few outliers out there.

Given the above, it just seems practical to do whatever it takes to find the guy. Not just to be competitive, or to be satisfied with moral victories, but to contend. This means making clear evaluations of your guys and based on the wealth of experience, which Belichick has an abundance of, make a decision. Obviously, it takes time to do this if your guy is a rookie, but it shouldn't take 3 complete years to make the evaluation.

I envy Josh McDaniels' decision to apparently move on from Carr. Now granted there was already plenty of film on him, yet many people believe you could win with the guy. Maybe you could, but he's not the guy. Kingsbury immediately moved on from Rosen because he knew he wasn't the guy. He didn't care if he was a 1st rounder in his 1st season. He knew. He acted. We now know he was 100% correct and saved that franchise 2+ years of wasted time and energy.

We know what the guy looks like. We know you can be a contender with guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert. Despite some of these guys not winning anything yet, you know they have the talent, drive, leadership to make it happen. All these guys have the "it" factor, they're dynamic but more importantly, they're clutch.

So, to me, Mac is not the guy. We're wasting time thinking we can contend with him. He doesn't have the "it" factor. He's not clutch. Worse, there seems to be an emotional immaturity about him that's a bit concerning.

We need to move on and try to find the guy. The sooner the better. Times a wasting.

 

[venecol]

This kid may be the guy. He has 4 4QC and 4 GWD in his 2 seasons and is on the rise. Crazy arm talent. Seems level headed. Survived that sh*t show last season.

 

[Tunescribe]

This is the hope of those that believe Belichick can win with just a guy along with, like you say, a strong defense.

I'm not one of those that believes this or even relies on hope as a source of fandom. I believe in facts, and the fact is that Belichick hasn't done anything to make us believe he can win with just a guy. I also believe in the fact that you need "the guy" to win. This has been proven by history, albeit the very few outliers out there.

Given the above, it just seems practical to do whatever it takes to find the guy. Not just to be competitive, or to be satisfied with moral victories, but to contend. This means making clear evaluations of your guys and based on the wealth of experience, which Belichick has an abundance of, make a decision. Obviously, it takes time to do this if your guy is a rookie, but it shouldn't take 3 complete years to make the evaluation.

I envy Josh McDaniels' decision to apparently move on from Carr. Now granted there was already plenty of film on him, yet many people believe you could win with the guy. Maybe you could, but he's not the guy. Kingsbury immediately moved on from Rosen because he knew he wasn't the guy. He didn't care if he was a 1st rounder in his 1st season. He knew. He acted. We now know he was 100% correct and saved that franchise 2+ years of wasted time and energy.

We know what the guy looks like. We know you can be a contender with guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert. Despite some of these guys not winning anything yet, you know they have the talent, drive, leadership to make it happen. All these guys have the "it" factor, they're dynamic but more importantly, they're clutch.

So, to me, Mac is not the guy. We're wasting time thinking we can contend with him. He doesn't have the "it" factor. He's not clutch. Worse, there seems to be an emotional immaturity about him that's a bit concerning.

We need to move on and try to find the guy. The sooner the better. Times a wasting.

Talk about wasting time. You should've just saved this post for a year from now contingent on results from BB assembling a genuine offensive coaching staff.

We realize you personally despise Mac and think you already "know" he isn't "the guy." Perhaps he isn't, but there simply is no way of being certain after a wasted season. Those vital intangibles you claim to have a bead on amount to precious little in the team's current state. The report card remains frustratingly incomplete, as much as you've hoped, wished and imagined toward convincing yourself Mac should be dumped.

The fates of Rosen and Carr are poor standards of comparison for obvious reasons, aside from the practical matter/relative luxury of Mac entering year three of his rookie contract. Not giving him a solid run through next training camp at the very, very least would be nothing short of football malpractice. Or so, conventional wisdom would seem to dictate. You'll just have to be patient a bit longer, kicking Mac to the curb in your dreams while reality plays out.

 

[Patsfan177a]

Mac hasn't been playing well since week 12 of last season

I think he is playing well now, and has been most of the season. His last int was 1 where his arm was hit from behind (his blind side) was how long ago? I think that with most QBs we would be 5-10 or worse.

 

[BritPat]

I said after the Bears game that whatever your view on Mac Jones is, in terms of solution or not, he cannot possibly be judged on his own merit at the moment with the horror show that is the offensive coaching, play-calling and O-line play.

The above affects all QB's in the league and even made a certain #12 look ordinary and frustrated in his time here when things weren't great.

Until he at least has good coaching, and the play-calling improves, I'm not going to criticise him. At the minute, he's a product of the environment we have offensively.

 

[Jim Beankie]

We know what the guy looks like. We know you can be a contender with guys like Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert. Despite some of these guys not winning anything yet, you know they have the talent, drive, leadership to make it happen. All these guys have the "it" factor, they're dynamic but more importantly, they're clutch.

The fact that Mac only has 1 4thQ or game winning drive is disconcerting, but it may be too early to call it, which is why imho, BB is sticking with the dude to the end (of the season). Herbert finally made the playoffs in his 3rd season, but he had 8 4thQ and/or game winning drives his 1st 2 seasons. Allen in his 2nd season lost to the Texans in his 1st playoff game throwing 52%, but we all know what he is now. Mahomes definitely has "it." A question is - does Matt Stafford have "it"? The guy just won a SB over all those guys and I think is tied for the most (non-Goat division).

BB is giving it till the end of the season, much like what he did for Cam 2 years ago. His biggest mistake was letting Mac start in the CHI game. He had the excuse of waiting for him to fully heal. If Zappe lit it up, then ride the hot hand. If Zappe stunk, then there wouldn't be the drama.

 

[Ian]

The fact that Mac only has 1 4thQ or game winning drive is disconcerting, but it may be too early to call it, which is why imho, BB is sticking with the dude to the end (of the season). Herbert finally made the playoffs in his 3rd season, but he had 8 4thQ and/or game winning drives his 1st 2 seasons. Allen in his 2nd season lost to the Texans in his 1st playoff game throwing 52%, but we all know what he is now. Mahomes definitely has "it." A question is - does Matt Stafford have "it"? The guy just won a SB over all those guys and I think is tied for the most (non-Goat division).

BB is giving it till the end of the season, much like what he did for Cam 2 years ago. His biggest mistake was letting Mac start in the CHI game. He had the excuse of waiting for him to fully heal. If Zappe lit it up, then ride the hot hand. If Zappe stunk, then there wouldn't be the drama.

It's funny that you say that because I was thinking about it and forgot they've had a couple of games where they were going in for the go-ahead score, and both Damien Harris (last year's opener) or Rhamondre Stevenson (this past weekend) fumbled. I think there may have been another as well where they lost the ball late...I'd have to go back and look. Obviously, those aren't on him, but it's certainly spoiled a couple of wins that would have fallen into that category with drives he had put together.