Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[Rob0729]

Still the third year in the system with the same - and far more qualified - coordinator. Unfair comparison

I think it is unfair to judge Jones to Brady in any way. Even though Brady wasn't the GOAT Brady until either the tail end or post the first dynasty part of the Belichick/Brady era, he was still Brady. I think Trevor Lawrence is a far better QB now and most likely the future than Mac Jones, but it would be unfair to compare him to Brady.

But it was also a different era. The QB wasn't nearly as important and the focal point of the offense as he is today. And the game is far more vertical and high scoring. We saw in 2003, the Pats' offense could do nothing but score field goals in multiple games and it didn't matter because the defense had three or four shut outs that year. You don't see that today.

Not pointing anyone out or singling anyone out since even last year I couldn't avoid the temptation to compare Jones to a young Tom Brady a few times last year, but I just don't think you can compare the two.

 

[crawhammer]

Still the third year in the system with the same - and far more qualified - coordinator. Unfair comparison

It's not fair either from the standpoint that Brady is the greatest player in the entire history of the league. No quarterback can be held to Brady's standards. However, I think there a couple of angles to consider here...

Brady was a 6th round pick of which little was expected. Mac was chosen in the 1st round as the next franchise quarterback. The lower expectations may have made it easier for Brady to develop absent scrutiny his rookie season but he also was looking at an incredibly steep climb from the 4th-string position. Mac came in with higher expectations, facing immediate scrutiny, but he also got 1st or 2nd team reps right away and the attention due a 1st round pick.

Then there are the years and coaching. Brady obviously had the extra year. Both had Belichick from the start but Mac has had to deal with the dramatic OC coaching change (which has gone disastrously bad) and the system change (which has gone disastrously bad). I think Mac has to accept some blame for his play this season but the coaching and the system have probably worked against him. Ultimately I blame Belichick for that. But yes, the continuity of coaching and system was a benefit Brady had but Mac did not.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

On the money

 

[Rob0729]

On the money

So the only mention of his post snap recognition is that it was improved in the parts you highlighted. No mention that it is a concern.

In fact, this paragraph praises his pocket presence and his decision making. And last year, that was on the money too:




Again, you cherry pick what you want. This overall this scouting report is very positive of Jones.

And to the part you highlighted about when Jones is moved off his mark, he struggles, When most pocket passers are moved off their mark, it affects their decision making and processing. That is the fundamental difference between a pocket passer and a mobile QB. But Jones' strong pocket presence which he is regaining quite a bit from last year in recent weeks offsets that weakness. And the report you posted addresses this:



But here is the money shot you were looking for and ignored (or this is the quote you posted before). But it seems that the scouting report is pointing out it is a skill he is developing and due to a lack of experience rather than something he will never be able to do.



As for a lack of a quality o-line and a predictable scheme, most pocket passers struggle in that scenario. Brady is the exception to the rule.

 

[RodThePat]

On the money

Issue is they aren't getting Kirk Cousins performance out of Mac, if they were I think most fans would be very pleased. Also it was always bonkers to set his FLOOR as Cousins' worst years in Washington (4093 yards, 27 TDs, 13 INTs, 93.9 rating, 6.38 ANY/A) and Minnesotta (4221 yards, 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 103.1 rating, 7.42 ANY/A). That's much, much closer to Mac's ceiling based on what I've watched.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

On the money

Thanks. Amazing. That is Mac exactly. The Microsoft hour glass ?? in his head. Haha. That is perfect. Hopefully the hour glass goes a lot quicker and Mac makes it in the NFL. The last few games Mac had looked much better. Mac does a lot of great things, but compensating for poor pass protection by running around and improvising is not Mac's game, some needsyoreadand react much faster to have success.

 

[venecol]

I forgot that M. Jones does have a 4QC/GWPlay.

 

[venecol]

 

[bigballas]

Thanks. Amazing. That is Mac exactly. The Microsoft hour glass ?? in his head. Haha. That is perfect. Hopefully the hour glass goes a lot quicker and Mac makes it in the NFL. The last few games Mac had looked much better. Mac does a lot of great things, but compensating for poor pass protection by running around and improvising is not Mac's game, some needsyoreadand react much faster to have success.

yeah, totally agree. we'd be thrilled if we really had kirk cousins level production from Mac

edit : cousins has had 3 bad games this year - vs PHL, DAL and GB this past week. DAL and PHL have top 5 defenses....

 

[bigballas]

Issue is they aren't getting Kirk Cousins performance out of Mac, if they were I think most fans would be very pleased. Also it was always bonkers to set his FLOOR as Cousins' worst years in Washington (4093 yards, 27 TDs, 13 INTs, 93.9 rating, 6.38 ANY/A) and Minnesotta (4221 yards, 33 TDs, 7 INTs, 103.1 rating, 7.42 ANY/A). That's much, much closer to Mac's ceiling based on what I've watched.

yeah, totally agree. we'd be thrilled if we really had kirk cousins level production from Mac

cousins has had 3 bad games this year - vs PHL, DAL and GB this past week. DAL and PHL have top 5 defenses....

 

[Rob0729]

yeah, totally agree. we'd be thrilled if we really had kirk cousins level production from Mac

edit : cousins has had 3 bad games this year - vs PHL, DAL and GB this past week. DAL and PHL have top 5 defenses....

Cousins has a receiver with 1771 yards and 8 TDs and an o-line that can block. And his OC has 15 years of offensive coaching experience and was the passing game coordinator for the Super Bowl winning Rams last year.

 

[Rob0729]

These stats are BS. The way he does it is so friggin stupid. He takes the separate pass protection grades of the tackles, the guards, and center and then averages them out. That is the most ignorant way of measuring o-line play.

The fact is that most of the best pass rushers on any team are outside players (DEs or OLBs). In the top 20 sack leaders this year, there are only four DTs. That means when it comes to pass protection the scores for the tackles should be weighted more than the guards and center. According to the numbers he uses, the Patriots' tackles are among the 5-7 worst in the league while the guard and center play has been above average or great. So these stats deceptively makes the Patriots' o-line look much better at pass protection than it really is.

 

[venecol]

These stats are BS. The way he does it is so friggin stupid. He takes the separate pass protection grades of the tackles, the guards, and center and then averages them out. That is the most ignorant way of measuring o-line play.

The fact is that most of the best pass rushers on any team are outside players (DEs or OLBs). In the top 20 sack leaders this year, there are only four DTs. That means when it comes to pass protection the scores for the tackles should be weighted more than the guards and center. According to the numbers he uses, the Patriots' tackles are among the 5-7 worst in the league while the guard and center play has been above average or great. So these stats deceptively makes the Patriots' o-line look much better at pass protection than it really is.

He correlates data with SIS. If you're not going to read the thread don't bother making a comment.

 

[Rob0729]

He correlates data with SIS. If you're not going to read the thread don't bother making a comment.

Yes, you already posted how he does it. You already posted this Tweet earlier this week. It is a flawed way to grade o-lines.

 

[venecol]

Yes, you already posted how he does it. You already posted this Tweet earlier this week. It is a flawed way to grade o-lines.

Again, he's backing up his data with PFF, ESPN, SIS. They all correlate. I suppose you think your eye test (despite not watching non-Pats games) is better. Either that or he's a Mac-hatter. Yea, that must be it.

 

[Rob0729]

Evan Lazar podcast on Mac Jones vs. the Dolphins. It's cued up to the Mac discussion talk. It goes on for a bit. But he give a very fair and objective assessment of Jones. Note: Lazar was not a fan of Jones when the Patriots drafted him. He is both praising Jones for a lot of things and criticizing him for others. He even gives Patricia credit for some of his concepts.

 

[bigballas]

Cousins has a receiver with 1771 yards and 8 TDs and an o-line that can block. And his OC has 15 years of offensive coaching experience and was the passing game coordinator for the Super Bowl winning Rams last year.

Yeah JJ is elite. But its laughable to think Kirk and Mac are in the same league

Maybe the QB is the problem with the OL? Our OL is top 10 in run blocking and miles ahead of the Vikings but then sucks at pass protection which all of the sudden is the reason why Mac sucks? I doubt it.

Mac had a 6x Super Bowl champion OC last year. He sucked then too. I'm ready for new blood at that position

 

[Rob0729]

Again, he's backing up his data with PFF, ESPN, SIS. They all correlate. I suppose you think your eye test (despite not watching non-Pats games) is better. Either that or he's a Mac-hatter. Yea, that must be it.

First of all, most of this stuff is subjective anyways. No matter what service you want to use, QB pressures are totally subjective. Sometimes when there is a miss block, judging which o-lineman responsible is totally subjective. There are a lot of things in football that these services track as stats are 100% subjective.

Second, the data he uses says the Patriots' offense tackles are among the worst in the league. So can we agree that the Patriots' offensive tackles are awful?

Third, I am not even disputing his data. I am saying the way he uses the data is extremely flawed. You cannot put the same weight of pass protection grades for interior linemen with the pass protection grades of exterior linemen because most pass pressure comes from the outside. You can have the best center and guard in the league, but if your tackles absolutely suck, your QB is going to get killed. That is why tackles get paid far more than centers and guards. That is why tackles go in the first round of the draft and very few if any guards or centers do.

Fourth, stop with this Mac hater BS. His logic is flawed, but it is flawed for the entire league. Not just the Patriots. I bet there are teams that have low grades according to this guy despite their tackles are among the best in the league.

Fifth, you are using this guy because he is saying what fits your narrative. If you create the myth that Matt Patricia is a middle of the pack OC and the Pats o-line actually has performed pretty well this year, your narrative that Mac Jones sucks becomes a stronger argument.

 

[Rob0729]

Yeah JJ is elite. But its laughable to think Kirk and Mac are in the same league

Maybe the QB is the problem with the OL? Our OL is top 10 in run blocking and miles ahead of the Vikings but then sucks at pass protection which all of the sudden is the reason why Mac sucks? I doubt it.

Mac had a 6x Super Bowl champion OC last year. He sucked then too. I'm ready for new blood at that position

Jones is a second year QB with an awful o-line and OC. Cousins has been in the league for a decade.

And Jones didn't suck last year. He was in second place in the OROY voting. He would have won it if Chase didn't have a historic rookie year. If you think Jones sucked last year, you are not being objective at all.

And you are going to be disappointed because most likely Jones will be the starting QB next year.

 

[venecol]

Yeah JJ is elite. But its laughable to think Kirk and Mac are in the same league

Maybe the QB is the problem with the OL? Our OL is top 10 in run blocking and miles ahead of the Vikings but then sucks at pass protection which all of the sudden is the reason why Mac sucks? I doubt it.

Mac had a 6x Super Bowl champion OC last year. He sucked then too. I'm ready for new blood at that position

The OL excuse isn't backed up by the data. Take a look at all the teams to the left of the Pats and how their QBs compare. Jesus, look at CIN and MIA. How are Burrow and Tua doing? What about Herbert with a worse OL and probably a worse OC. Unfortunately, around here actual data is "agenda driven" that makes you a hater. It is what it is.