Mac Jones' Last Five Games - 2022 vs 2021

[Rob0729]

Herbert is far more talented. It's not really close and I think most people here would take Herbert in a heartbeat if that was a possibility. From there, I will say that Burrow and Tua benefit from having much better players, although Burrow's arc already has him as an elite QB. He's made too many clutch plays in key moments and the kid is just a great player and leader. And the fact he's got who he has around him should keep Cincinnati as a contender as long as they can keep that group together.

In Tua's case, you put a decent QB with several explosive players, and the results are what they were - really good offensive production. He's not outstanding, but obviously we saw the difference adding Hill made, and the chemistry he already had with Waddle, having played with him in college, has obviously paid dividends.

Mac, I would say, falls in behind Tua and he's probably in line with Tannehill, albeit Tannehill has a better arm. But Mac's advantage is he doesn't make the dumb, untimely interceptions. He's also a smarter player mentally. Again, I would say that will remain his biggest strength, and we just have to get used to the fact he's just going to be a good player who, paired with some other great players, can win a lot of games with the focus being on the defense.

Again, and I said this in another thread, people are frustrated with Mac because they're expecting great QB play given who we had here. They're going to have to settle for just good or really good and hopefully at least at last year's level or above - provided they add more talent around him. If he can get to a point where he's hovering around 30TDs a year with a low interception total, that, paired with this defense, might be good enough to be competitive in the interim until a better option becomes available.

It is what it is. The Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrows, Justin Herberts, Josh Allens are all rare guys, and we go entire draft classes every year without seeing one come out. They'll have to keep drafting guys and pushing the envelope until they potentially get one who is a little more athletically gifted, has a stronger arm, or whatever it is they're ultimately looking for who would push Mac out. Or maybe after next year, if they opt not to pick up his fifth-year option, they elevate Zappe, try and recoup a high pick, and go after somebody else the year after.

Either way, they have to try and squeeze out the most we can with the guy who is back there and not spend all our time complaining about something that just "is what it is," at least for now. It just sucks that we've wasted an entire season and we've ended up with the same number of questions it feels like we started the year with. Hopefully, he'll show us something this weekend and either extend the season, or give us something positive to talk about heading into the offseason.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

I would say if Mac Jones was in Miami instead of New England with those weapons, people would be talking about him in a more favorable light than people were talking about Tua before he got injured. I think Mac is a better QB than Tua. That isn't saying he is a very good QB, but just better than Tua. Give him Hill and Waddle and McDaniel's system (McDaniel isn't a very good head coach, but a damn good offensive mind) and I think he would have had a pretty good season this year.

I think Mac can be a top 10 QB with the right pieces around him like Tua was this year before he got injured. Unfortunately, Jones doesn't look like he is going to be a QB who can elevate the talent around him if it is subpar like many of the elite QBs. Maybe someday he develops into that type of player, but at this point I wouldn't bet on it.

I think if the Patriots get O'Brien or another solid experienced OC, a solid #1 WR, maybe one or two other good supporting receivers, and fix the issues at offensive tackle; I think we will see a dramatic improvement from Mac next year. But that means Belichick has to realize he isn't Brady who could excel with a bunch of solid, but unremarkable #2 and #3 WR with no legitimate #1 receiver.

 

[Ian]

I think Mac is a better QB than Tua. That isn't saying he is a very good QB, but just better than Tua.

Mac is a smarter player, but Tua is a more athletic player with a stronger arm and can improvise better. Still, that style of play, I know @BaconGrundleCandy has brought this up, might be more attractive but the number of those guys winning Super Bowls and having long careers is sort of rare.

I think Donovan McNabb, Russell Wilson, and maybe one or two others I can't think of right now, might be the few who bucked that trend. Although, Wilson is still fairly young. Meanwhile, McNabb got beat up a lot like how Tua is getting beat up now. Guys like that take a lot of hits, so it's sort of hard to build around those guys. Even Mahomes has taken some shots he's fortunate to have gotten up from.

Again, Mac is who he is. McDaniels did a better job, just like he did with Brady, about adjusting in-game and rolling them away from pressure. Haven't seen much of that this season. They need somebody that can also sort of help account for things because - as much as I like him - he has a tough time doing that on his own. Although, again, having the problems we had this year isn't conducive to good QB play, but at the same time, good coordinators can still come up with ways to deal with that.

But they'll either have to play to his strengths or decide what other direction it is they want to go in. Either way, it sounds like the support will be better next season, based on what we've heard. At the same time, next year is going to be critical for him. He'll need work some things out over the offseason, and hopefully this time next year we at least have a more concrete picture of where he is and where they are collectively.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

LOL! You think you are objective. That's adorable.

Herbert is one of the best QBs in the league. So is Burrow. Both have elite or superior receiving talent to throw to. And Herbert doesn't have a worse OC.

And by the way, the Pats are on their fourth starting RT and he was on the Jets' practice squad a month ago. Andrews missed a close to a month.

And let's not forget that DeVante Parker has missed a month, Meyers missed three games, Damien Harris missed three or four games. Everyone is dealing with injuries.

So does Tua. And Tua has the benefit of having two receivers who he can throw short passes to and allowing the receivers do all the work after the catch.

Geno Smith is a mobile QB who can make plays outside the pocket.

But Patricia is arguably the worst OC in the league. Many people and not just Mac defenders think he is the worst. Hell, even many people in the media who don't think Jones is not the answer at QB admit that. We literally have receivers who run routes designed to help the defense to cover them.

But again, guys you love like Evan Lazar and Dan Orlovsky, say the same thing I do about Patricia and the o-line.

But who says any of the lines you mentioned are actually worse than the Patriots' o-line. Why because the eyeball test isn't as reliable as "stats" that are compiled based on eyeball tests of other people?

This is why you guys aren't objective. You guys are trying to create a false narrative that Matt Patricia and the offensive line hasn't been all that bad this year and they are really pretty average. If you at least accepted that Patricia is one of the worst OCs in the game, you would have at least a little more credibility.

But most importantly, the guy who signs everyone's paychecks in Foxboro reportedly thinks the offensive coaching staff is awful and wants wholesale changes including the firing or reassignment of Patricia to a non-offense coaching position. If Kraft thought Patricia was just average or slightly below average, I am thinking he might be willing to give him a year two to show he has grown with another offseason.

And I have never said Patricia was all the problems for Jones' issues this year (that is you guys putting words in my mouth). Jones clearly didn't play well the first few months of the season. I think Jones has played fairly well, but inconsistently, since Thanksgiving. But he needs to improve his consistency. But I have said that basically everyone on offense except Trent Brown, Nelson Agholor, and Isiah Wynn gets a free pass this year in my eyes because of Patricia. A lot of the o-line issues have to do with Patricia as the o-line coach and him not giving Andrews as much freedom to make assignment audibles and the poor development of Strange.

And I have said that the #1 issue on this offense is Patricia and #2 isn't even close. I would put Jones at #4 or #5 after Patricia, the o-line, receivers not running good routes, and mental errors. And all the issues from #2 on are at least partially impacted by Patricia and his awful management of the offense.

I don't read your shorter post I'm definitely not reading this lol.

 

[crawhammer]

Cousins has a receiver with 1771 yards and 8 TDs and an o-line that can block. And his OC has 15 years of offensive coaching experience and was the passing game coordinator for the Super Bowl winning Rams last year.

Mac has a head coach with 6 (some say 8) SB rings and 37 years of NFL coaching experience. Some call him a genius and the GOAT head coach. Seems like that would trump the relatively insignificant experience of that OC with 1 ring as a "passing game coordinator."

 

[Rob0729]

Mac is a smarter player, but Tua is a more athletic player with a stronger arm and can improvise better. Still, that style of play, I know @BaconGrundleCandy has brought this up, might be more attractive but the number of those guys winning Super Bowls and having long careers is sort of rare.

I think Donovan McNabb, Russell Wilson, and maybe one or two others I can't think of right now, might be the few who bucked that trend. Although, Wilson is still fairly young. Meanwhile, McNabb got beat up a lot like how Tua is getting beat up now. Guys like that take a lot of hits, so it's sort of hard to build around those guys. Even Mahomes has taken some shots he's fortunate to have gotten up from.

Again, Mac is who he is. McDaniels did a better job, just like he did with Brady, about adjusting in-game and rolling them away from pressure. Haven't seen much of that this season. They need somebody that can also sort of help account for things because - as much as I like him - he has a tough time doing that on his own. Although, again, having the problems we had this year isn't conducive to good QB play, but at the same time, good coordinators can still come up with ways to deal with that.

But they'll either have to play to his strengths or decide what other direction it is they want to go in. Either way, it sounds like the support will be better next season, based on what we've heard. At the same time, next year is going to be critical for him. He'll need work some things out over the offseason, and hopefully this time next year we at least have a more concrete picture of where he is and where they are collectively.

But Tua really doesn't use his athleticism or arm that much in Miami. I am actually shocked how little of his athleticism Tua actually uses in Miami. The guy is more of a pocket passer in the NFL than anyone expected.

If you watched the Dolphins this year, they are throwing a lot of short quick passes and letting Hill and Waddle do work on the ground. Between the two alone, 996 of the Dolphins 4,613 passing yards are yards after the catch. I think only the Bucs, Chiefs, and 49ers have more yards after the catch by their top two YAC receivers.

McDaniel runs the Shanahan offense which is a modern day development of the West Coast Offense with a lot of shorter, quick passes. I think that is a type of offense at least the 2021 Mac Jones could excel in and better than Tua has done this year.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't read your shorter post I'm definitely not reading this lol.

Don't care.

I read all your posts for the comedy.

And for someone who responds to my posts so much, I am guessing you actually do read my posts including this one. You just don't have a response.

 

[crawhammer]

I think Mac is a better QB than Tua. That isn't saying he is a very good QB, but just better than Tua.

Tua is no Dan Marino but he does lead the NFL in passer rating (105.5) and Y/A (8.9). If he's health last weekend then Miami would have had a much better chance in that game. Tua has better WRs than Mac but he's definitely the better QB than Mac too. Tua's biggest problem is concussions will probably end his career.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac has a head coach with 6 (some say 8) SB rings and 37 years of NFL coaching experience. Some call him a genius and the GOAT head coach. Seems like that would trump the relatively insignificant experience of that OC with 1 ring as a "passing game coordinator."

Belichick was the one who thought putting a guy with no offensive coach experience in as the OC and offensive line coach in a critical year for his second year QB was a good idea. He used to the the greatest of all time. Now I wonder if he is just here collecting Ws to break Shula's record and isn't all-in like he was.

 

[Ian]

But Tua really doesn't use his athleticism or arm that much in Miami.

They move him around a lot, and he does a decent job of throwing on the run outside the pocket under pressure, so those things definitely matter. At the same time, he also does make some bad decisions. But I thought McDaniel did a decent job with him this year. It's just unfortunate for him that he's had the year he's had health-wise. Never want to see any player deal with that.

 

[Rob0729]

Tua is no Dan Marino but he does lead the NFL in passer rating (105.5) and Y/A (8.9). If he's health last weekend then Miami would have had a much better chance in that game. Tua has better WRs than Mac but he's definitely the better QB than Mac too. Tua's biggest problem is concussions will probably end his career.

Tua in year two had similar stats as Jones in year one. And he had better receivers than Mac had that year too. How do you explain that?

Tua 2021
13 games - 67.8% completion for 2,653 yards, 16 TDs, 10 INTs with a 90.1 QB rating

Mac 2021
17 games - 67.6% completion for 3,801 yards, 22 TDs, 13 INTs and a 92.5 QB rating

 

[Ian]

Tua has better WRs than Mac but he's definitely the better QB than Mac too.

Mac's the smarter player, Tua is the stronger, more athletic player. Mac's edge right now is the fact he doesn't make the "what was he thinking?" turnover very often, which has bitten Tua at times. McDaniel seemed to coach some of that out of him, but that's an area that I would say Jones makes up for the advantages Tua has over him right now.

 

[crawhammer]

McDaniel runs the Shanahan offense which is a modern day development of the West Coast Offense with a lot of shorter, quick passes. I think that is a type of offense at least the 2021 Mac Jones could excel in and better than Tua has done this year.

So if the teams flipped just quarterbacks then their record would get better and our record would get worse? Interesting notion.

Psst! Belichick was the one who thought putting a guy with no offensive coach experience in as the OC and offensive line coach in a critical year for his second year QB was a good idea. He used to the the greatest of all time. Now I wonder if he is just here collecting Ws to break Shula's record and isn't all-in like he was.

I know who makes the decisions, the man himself says "he's ultimately responsible for everything." I guess you think BB has reduced himself to a stats chaser. Duly noted.

 

[crawhammer]

Tua in year two had similar stats as Jones in year one. And he had better receivers than Mac had that year too. How do you explain that?

Tua 2021
13 games - 67.8% completion for 2,653 yards, 16 TDs, 10 INTs with a 90.1 QB rating

Mac 2021
17 games - 67.6% completion for 3,801 yards, 22 TDs, 13 INTs and a 92.5 QB rating

What's your point? Mac will make a big jump like Tua but a year earlier? Mac will go from the 25th rated QB to the 1st next season? That will be a neat trick considering he went in the wrong direction this year. Tua has gotten better each year and made a big jump this season with Tyreek and I don't think the Patriots are bringing in a top 5 WR next season.

 

[Rob0729]

So if the teams flipped just quarterbacks then their record would get better and our record would get worse? Interesting notion.


I know who makes the decisions, the man himself says "he's ultimately responsible for everything." I guess you think BB has reduced himself to a stats chaser. Duly noted.

The record could stay the same. Who knows? I think Jones is a better QB than Tua (or at least what I think he would be if he didn't have the situation he has this year), but I don't know how much. And then again, I don't think Tua is as good as you think he is.

No I didn't say that. I am saying I don't know if Belichick puts the work in or does a lot of the little things he used to. He used to be about the Patriots being smarter than the opponent and not making mistakes. This is a dumb team this year that makes a lot of mistakes. And he used to thrive on making sure he had a top special teams unit because other teams don't focus enough on special teams and the special teams other than Marcus Jones and a few others have been awful this year. And those are two areas that have nothing or very little to do with Mac Jones.

 

[Rob0729]

What's your point? Mac will make a big jump like Tua but a year earlier? Mac will go from the 25th rated QB to the 1st next season? That will be a neat trick considering he went in the wrong direction this year. Tua has gotten better each year and made a big jump this season with Tyreek and I don't think the Patriots are bringing in a top 5 WR next season.

No. I am pointing out that Tua wasn't anything better than Mac Jones in his rookie season until the Dolphins got him a good offensive coaching staff and arguably the most dynamic receiver in the league a year after picking up a dynamic receiver that would be the #1 WR on most teams in the draft a year earlier.

And I agree the Pats won't bring in a top five receiver next season. But we are comparing Tua and Mac as who is better. I am pointing out that Tua greatly benefits from the talent around him.

 

[crawhammer]

Mac's the smarter player, Tua is the stronger, more athletic player. Mac's edge right now is the fact he doesn't make the "what was he thinking?" turnover very often, which has bitten Tua at times. McDaniel seemed to coach some of that out of him, but that's an area that I would say Jones makes up for the advantages Tua has over him right now.

Mac needs a big game on Sunday or it's going to be a long offseason. And an interesting training camp.

 

[Ian]

Mac needs a big game on Sunday or it's going to be a long offseason. And an interesting training camp.

Has to be at least what it was last weekend, with a better performance in the middle. But he missed just four of his final fifteen, which is probably the best he's finished the game in a while. Need another one of those with a turnover-free performance and solid red-zone production. Can't win this one with field goals.

 

[Rob0729]

Mac needs a big game on Sunday or it's going to be a long offseason. And an interesting training camp.

Sunday won't change anything in terms of Jones. It doesn't matter if Jones throws three INTS or four TDs. Belichick doesn't evaluate his players based on one game. If he did, he would have cut most of the team after last year's playoff loss.

But he will have to have a good game for the Pats to have any chance of winning and getting into the playoffs.

 

[crawhammer]

The record could stay the same. Who knows? I think Jones is a better QB than Tua (or at least what I think he would be if he didn't have the situation he has this year), but I don't know how much. And then again, I don't think Tua is as good as you think he is.

No I didn't say that. I am saying I don't know if Belichick puts the work in or does a lot of the little things he used to. He used to be about the Patriots being smarter than the opponent and not making mistakes. This is a dumb team this year that makes a lot of mistakes. And he used to thrive on making sure he had a top special teams unit because other teams don't focus enough on special teams and the special teams other than Marcus Jones and a few others have been awful this year. And those are two areas that have nothing or very little to do with Mac Jones.

I agree with some of what you're saying here. The coaching issues and poor ST (aside from MJ). BB didn't do Mac any favors this season with Judge and Patricia. But if I'm issuing a grade for Mac's quarterback play this season then I'm giving him a D+. Slightly above poor. He has 11 TDs in 13 games, that's inexcusable.

 

[Ian]

Sunday won't change anything. It doesn't matter if Jones throws three INTS or four TDs. Belichick doesn't evaluate his players based on one game. If he did, he would have cut most of the team after last year's playoff loss.

If he finishes with three INTs, it would definitely hurt him. Definitely would lose a little bit of benefit of the doubt heading into camp and into next season.