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Mac Jones is the Starter [Update - Mac is starting vs the Jete, says BB]


As for Brees, he is far more talented than Zappe. And the Saints always gave him a dominant offensive line that would push back the pile and give him big throwing lanes. Go look back at some his highlights and see the completely wide open passing lanes they gave him. And Zappe is no Drew Brees. And the Patriots' o-line isn't the Saints' o-lines during the Brees era.
That's because Brees was 3'5" tall and completely hidden behind his OL, making it difficult for DL to see him. He was known for throwing rainbow hailmary passes because he couldn't see over the line. He refused to allow his real height to be documented.

So, I think Zappe has a chance.
 
I just read BB's presser from yesterday. He struck me as kind of annoyed and frustrated with the situation, to be honest. He never referred to Jones as the "starter" - he took deliberate care to avoid using that word specifically, and wouldn't commit beyond this week. But what got my attention was how he used the phrase "getting a full workload", coupled with Jones entirely coming off the injury report (he's still got to be dealing with that ankle a bit, I'd think).

Here's the theory: BB believes Zappe has played better and he's probably inclined to start him, all else being equal. Between the media chorus that Jones got shafted, done dirty, so-to-speak + the locker-room comments about the situation being unfair / "messed up", BB spoke with the team leaders and they told him something to the effect of, "it'll be easier for us to accept this if we feel he got a fair shake" ... or maybe he just came to that conclusion on his own.

So he totally removes Jones from the injury report to silence any speculation that Jones is playing hurt, or that his play is at all influenced by injury. He gives Jones a full game without invention to sink or swim ("he's getting a full workload"), and if it's more of the same, I think we'll see Zappe starting sooner than later. By taking this approach, even if BB does ultimately end up starting Zappe at some point, he's able to create the perception in the locker-room that Jones - a respected team captain returning from injury - got a fair deal.

The other thing that jumped out to me yesterday were the Patriots beat reporters all onenote saying Jones starter status is not assured. Curran and Perry, both of whom up until yesterday were confidently, boldly in the camp of, "this is Jones' team, he's the starter", are now all saying this presser sent a message (which was not a vote of confidence), and that Jones is going to have to earn it every game moving forward.

If Belichick clearly thought Zappe was better and wanted to start him over Mac Jones, Zappe would be starting. Belichick going to Zappe as a future HOF replacing a struggling second year QB is definitely on far firmer footing than he was as second year head coach coming of a horrible first season benching a franchise QB who just got an $100 million contract.
 
That's because Brees was 3'5" tall and completely hidden behind his OL, making it difficult for DL to see him. He was known for throwing rainbow hailmary passes because he couldn't see over the line. He refused to allow his real height to be documented.

So, I think Zappe has a chance.

How does it feel with me living rent free in your head? I gotta tell you I love it because it is spacious with a lot of room. Your obsession with me is precious.

BTW, you have been slacking on putting laugh emojis on every one of my posts like you usually do.

Also BTW, these little sarcastic posts of yours only makes you look like an a**. I really don't care what you think of me.
 
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What narrative? I clearly said IN A LOT OF CASES and I also said throw for first downs on every play it seems AT TIMES. I clearly clarified the position that it wasn't all the time and only at certain times do they do it. I didn't say all the time.

Your weird obsession with trying to prove me wrong is a real issue for you. But hey, thanks for wasting time to prove that a position I clearly didn't take is a false narrative. Feel free to prove any other thing I never said wrong too. Knock yourself out.
Come on man, everyone here has seen the narrative you've been pushing:

1. Coaches are forcing Mac to pass deep.
R. Stats don't support this take.
2. Coaches are calling more PA plays for Zappe than Jones.
R. Stats don't support this take.

R. stands for reality.

You've latched on to the bs spieled by Bedard, Perry, Lazar & others that the coaches are sabotaging Mac by not giving him "easy" plays.

You're like a pit bull that once he bites, his jaws lock in and won't let go. I'm simply countering your narrative with, you know stats, that don't support your take.

Relax, that's what a football forum is for, don't take it personal.
 
Come on man, everyone here has seen the narrative you've been pushing:

1. Coaches are forcing Mac to pass deep.
R. Stats don't support this take.
2. Coaches are calling more PA plays for Zappe than Jones.
R. Stats don't support this take.

R. stands for reality.

You've latched on to the bs spieled by Bedard, Perry, Lazar & others that the coaches are sabotaging Mac by not giving him "easy" plays.

You're like a pit bull that once he bites, his jaws lock in and won't let go. I'm simply countering your narrative with, you know stats, that don't support your take.

Relax, that's what a football forum is for, don't take it personal.

Dude, I am your head. Not the other way around. Don't go guessing what my "narrative" is. You see a narrative because you are obsessed with proving me wrong plain and simple. I meant what I said. And have repeatedly said that I felt the theories that the coaches are sabotaging Jones is silly.

And I have said repeatedly that they run the offense they want this team to be running when Jones is on the field and they dumb it down for Zappe. My issue is that they do not have the talent (and I that includes in the play calling ability and not just the players on the field) to run the offense they ultimately want to run and they are trying force a square peg in a round hole when they try it. And when they try it, it is when Jones is on the field.

If Jones was Joe Burrow or Josh Allen or any other QB is good at the vertical game, I would have no problem with the offense they run when Jones in the game. The problem is that Jones is not those guys. They need to be calling the game to put the talent they have in the best position and they are not doing that with Jones.

BTW, stats prove the BS narrative you have about me and what I wrote isn't stats that prove me wrong.

Now stop making an ass of yourself. You were more interesting when you were just putting laugh emojis on all my posts.
 
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If Belichick clearly thought Zappe was better and wanted to start him over Mac Jones, Zappe would be starting. Belichick going to Zappe as a future HOF replacing a struggling second year QB is definitely on far firmer footing than he was as second year head coach coming of a horrible first season benching a franchise QB who just got an $100 million contract.
Not true in this case Mac is being evaluated to see if he's the guy Mac is not above that. IF he struggles the rest of the year there will be a QB competition in 2023.
 
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My issue is that they do not have the talent (and I that includes in the play calling ability and not just the players on the field) to run the offense they ultimately want to run and they are trying force a square peg in a round hole when they try it. And when they try it, it is when Jones is on the field.

If Jones was Joe Burrow or Josh Allen or any other QB is good at the vertical game, I would have no problem with the offense they run when Jones in the game. The problem is that Jones is not those guys. They need to be calling the game to put the talent they have in the best position and they are not doing that with Jones.
The problem is you're using Mac's deep passes as if its some outlier. He has 21, most QBs in the league have 21 or way more:

Allen: 45
Mahomes: 54
Lawrence: 29
Mariota: 27
Brady: 28
Wentz: 32
Ryan: 29
Fields: 30
Goff: 34
Brissett: 29
Tua: 34
Mills: 33
Dalton: 20
Mayfield: 24
Wilson: 17

Now some of these QBs have played more games than Mac, but 21 deep passes in 4 games is just not an outlier. Do you want him to only throw deep 1 or 2 per game? Pats need to open up the vertical game or they'll get stuffed. That's why Bill got Parker and Thornton.

Let's just stick to football, capisci.
 
The problem is you're using Mac's deep passes as if its some outlier. He has 21, most QBs in the league have 21 or way more:

Allen: 45
Mahomes: 54
Lawrence: 29
Mariota: 27
Brady: 28
Wentz: 32
Ryan: 29
Fields: 30
Goff: 34
Brissett: 29
Tua: 34
Mills: 33
Dalton: 20
Mayfield: 24
Wilson: 17

Now some of these QBs have played more games than Mac, but 21 deep passes in 4 games is just not an outlier. Do you want him to only throw deep 1 or 2 per game? Pats need to open up the vertical game or they'll get stuffed. That's why Bill got Parker and Thornton.

Let's just stick to football, capisci.

The problem is you have me rattling around in your head and it is driving you mad.

And I am not playing into your obsession with me by humoring you by twisting my arguments because you are desperate to prove me wrong and failing miserably.
 
Ummmm..... I was explaining how Wilson was able to get out of his disadvantage by him athletic ability in reference to Zappe. I wasn't comparing him to Jones. Wilson is probably borderline HOFer. I don't think Jones is remotely as good as Wilson was before he has apparently fallen apart.
The issue is proficient passing by NFLs QBs like Brees, Wilson and Zap.

Nobody is comparing Zap to those QBs and nobody is implying that Zap will lead NE to the Super Bowl. What IS being shown is that NFLs QB the exact same size as Zap have been successful NFL QBs.

It's far from over for Zap, but Jones is near the end.
 
The problem is you have me rattling around in your head and it is driving you mad.

And I am not playing into your obsession with me by humoring you by twisting my arguments because you are desperate to prove me wrong and failing miserably.
Lol, when confronted with real stats you run. Got it.

You're Andy lite.
 
We are - and I do understand how deeply annoying this is - in a "day by day" situation. I think we have to accept that it is a "process" in which Bill will "do what is best for the team." Until then, we can "write whatever we want," because "it is what it is."

It's like you have a buddy who is a d----d know-it-all; then every time a question comes up, the s.o.b. is right AGAIN. Soul-crushing, ain't it?
 
Lol, when confronted with real stats you run. Got it.

You're Andy lite.

LOL! I debate plenty of people on this board who come at me with real stats. I am just done entertaining my b*tch!

I'll tell you what. Get one of your pro-Zappe fans to post whatever stats you want to post and I will address them. You need to earn my respect to debate with you. I don't even bother to look at the stats you post anymore.
 
The problem is you're using Mac's deep passes as if its some outlier. He has 21, most QBs in the league have 21 or way more:

Allen: 45
Mahomes: 54
Lawrence: 29
Mariota: 27
Brady: 28
Wentz: 32
Ryan: 29
Fields: 30
Goff: 34
Brissett: 29
Tua: 34
Mills: 33
Dalton: 20
Mayfield: 24
Wilson: 17

Now some of these QBs have played more games than Mac, but 21 deep passes in 4 games is just not an outlier. Do you want him to only throw deep 1 or 2 per game? Pats need to open up the vertical game or they'll get stuffed. That's why Bill got Parker and Thornton.

Let's just stick to football, capisci.
More games?

I mean, take away Mac's one long throw last week in his opening quarter, and realize that Mac has played 3 games, not 7 games.

There's a world of difference between 3 and 7
 
The issue is proficient passing by NFLs QBs like Brees, Wilson and Zap.

Nobody is comparing Zap to those QBs and nobody is implying that Zap will lead NE to the Super Bowl. What IS being shown is that NFLs QB the exact same size as Zap have been successful NFL QBs.

It's far from over for Zap, but Jones is near the end.

Seriously?!? Zappe has played four games and two only part of the game. You can't look at established QB with a decade or more of experience and look at their first few games and extrapolate how good Zappe is going to be.

Can I compare Mac Jones' stats for his first year and a half compare them to Josh Allen's first year and a half and extrapolate that Jones has the chance of being an elite QB in this league by his fourth season?

And how it is near the end for Jones? As mentioned you have Josh Allen looking like a wash out his first two season and is now either elite near elite (and no I am not saying Jones is going to be elite). Drew Brees washed out in San Diego. Hell, guys like Rich Gannon and Kurt Warner were nothing in their 20s and both won MVPs and one is in the Hall. Jones could be near the end of his career or he could turn it around. Too soon to tell. Or he could end like Zappe is most likely going to - being a career back up.
 
More games?

I mean, take away Mac's one long throw last week in his opening quarter, and realize that Mac has played 3 games, not 7 games.

There's a world of difference between 3 and 7

Wow! I didn't even read his stats. Is he really comparing Jones' total number of deep passes in three games and a half a quarter to the total number of deep passes by QBs who played seven games? Let's just say for bleeps and giggles that Jones played four games. That means he averages 5.25 deep passes a game. Here are the averages of the other QBs:

Jones 5.25
Allen 5 per game
Mahomes 7.7
Lawrence 4.1
Mariota 3.9
Brady 3.5 (I assume his total is based on eight games. If it is 7 games, it is 4)
Wentz 4.6
Ryan 4.1
Fields 4.3
Mills 4.7
Tua 6.8 (he played 5 games, but not full games in two of them)

I didn't list the other guys since aren't even in the conversation anyway for the most deep passes per game.

So other than Mahomes and Tua, no one on his list has thrown more deep balls more per game than Jones and is even counting the Bears game for Jones as a full game.

No wonder why I don't take venecol seriously. But it was nice of him to post stats that proves that the Pats have Jones throwing deep more per game than most of the other QBs in the league.
 
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