Mac Jones is the Starter [Update - Mac is starting vs the Jete, says BB]

[venecol]

 

[Rob0729]

Now there's a narrative that Jones is being asked to throw more on 1st down. Looks like Zappe has thrown 34% of his passes on 1st down and has been the most successful at it.

View attachment 46744

Another hawt take flushed down the toilet.

Who is pushing this narrative? No one.

I think you may have reading comprehension problem. I assume this post was directed at me because I said the Pats ask Jones to throw FOR first downs on every pass for stretches in games, not ON first down.

I don't think Jones passes on first down a lot more or any more than other QBs. The problem is like in the Bears game, they will ask him to throw 30 yards down the field on a second and ten (his first pass in three weeks) after a run gets stuffed on first down which then forces him again to pick up ten yards on third down since the 30 yard pass is a low percentage play.

They will let Zappe throw a short pass on first down to give second down and manageable.

 

[Tunescribe]

Condolences on the Patriots win today, li'l fella. That clutch fourth-down scoring pass by Mac Jones must have been hard on you.

 

[Ian]

Haven’t updated the stats DB yet, but
Mac Jones wasn’t exactly terrible there today.

10/14 (71.4%) for 64yds today on first down.

 

[Tunescribe]

Haven’t updated the stats DB yet, but
Mac Jones wasn’t exactly terrible there today.

10/14 (71.4%) for 64yds today on first down.

He was rusty, but I saw glimpses of his 2021 self in the second half (decision-making and accuracy). The OL did him no favors. I keep waiting for Jonnu Smith to show up with some consistency, that would make a big difference.

 

[Ian]

He was rusty, but I saw glimpses of his 2021 self in the second half (decision-making and accuracy). The OL did him no favors. I keep waiting for Jonnu Smith to show up with some consistency, that would make a big difference.

I agree. They started adjusting and he missed just 4 passes in the second half:

Mac Jones Second Half totals against the Jets:
11/15 (73%) 72yds 1 TD

Not perfect, but the kid hadn’t played a full game in over a month. Obviously, he got a little lucky, but it’s a productive start.

 

[mikey m]

Condolences on the Patriots win today, li'l fella. That clutch fourth-down scoring pass by Mac Jones must have been hard on you.

Do you seriously believe that was an acceptable performance from Jones going forward? I am extremely happy that we were able to get the W in Mac's first game back as he gets his feet wet, but he very nearly gave that game away on multiple occassions. He needs to start playing cleaner football quickly.

 

[Ian]

Do you seriously believe that was an acceptable performance from Jones going forward? I am extremely happy that we were able to get the W in Mac's first game back as he gets his feet wet, but he very nearly gave that game away on multiple occassions. He needs to start playing cleaner football quickly.

That definitely wasn’t the type of performance you’d hope for each week, but in context against a good defense, it was a good first step for a guy working his way back into the lineup.

If he doesn’t, you and others will get their wish. But it’s better to root for them to exhaust their options being sure about the kid one way or another. Because if Zappe plays like he did in the second half Monday night and that’s not an anomaly, that will mean Jones sucked and so did Zappe and we’ll be like the other lousy teams in the league and at that point.

If that happens, we all lose

 

[Tunescribe]

Do you seriously believe that was an acceptable performance from Jones going forward? I am extremely happy that we were able to get the W in Mac's first game back as he gets his feet wet, but he very nearly gave that game away on multiple occassions. He needs to start playing cleaner football quickly.

Enlarged and bolded for emphasis: this is all that needs to be said.

 

[catent]

That definitely wasn’t the type of performance you’d hope for each week, but in context against a good defense, it was a good first step for a guy working his way back into the lineup.

If he doesn’t, you and others will get their wish. But it’s better to root for them to exhaust their options being sure about the kid one way or another. Because if Zappe plays like he did in the second half Monday night and that’s not an anomaly, that will mean Jones sucked and so did Zappe and we’ll be like the other lousy teams in the league and at that point.

If that happens, we all lose

The thing is, when I watch them - and I acknowledge this is purely my own subjective "feeling" - sucky Zappe still struck me as better than sucky Jones. Perhaps more pointedly, sucky Zappe still had me feeling a lot more relaxed, confident, and settled watching him than sucky Jones.

Sucky Jones feels like, "alright, I know this guy is due for a turnover and he's playing anxiously and skittish", whereas sucky Zappe felt like, "alright, this guy has limitations he needs to work around, but the good habits are still there".

I saw a statistic that Jones went 5-14 on passes today that traveled more than 5 yards beyond the LOS. It's just a combination of poor pocket awareness, leading to poor timing/rhythm, leading to poor mechanics, all of which make it really challenging for him to push the ball downfield if he doesn't have a perfectly clean pocket. Zappe, on the other hand, seems to be able to still keep his eyes downfield and drive the ball even with bodies near him.

I mentioned this in the PGT, but my sense is that Jones was having a bit of an internal struggle between pushing the ball downfield (and this was probably his focus earlier in the season too) vs. being conservative. He seems to be more of a natural gunslinger who likes to play loose, but unfortunately that has led to a lot of turnovers. On the flip side, when he plays more conservatively, the turnovers decrease, the timing/rhythm improves, but it seems the scale/scope of the offense's ability to push the ball downfield and generate chunk plays, goes with it.

All that said, huge props to him for the toughness he displayed after that nasty hit he took.

 

[mikey m]

That definitely wasn’t the type of performance you’d hope for each week, but in context against a good defense, it was a good first step for a guy working his way back into the lineup.

If he doesn’t, you and others will get their wish. But it’s better to root for them to exhaust their options being sure about the kid one way or another. Because if Zappe plays like he did in the second half Monday night and that’s not an anomaly, that will mean Jones sucked and so did Zappe and we’ll be like the other lousy teams in the league and at that point.

If that happens, we all lose

Yes, I'm in the camp that thinks we may have something with Zappe. But my wish really is that Mac starts playing some better football that reinstills the hope that probably 95% of us had last season. As you said, that is definitely what would be best for the team. But, I am still obviously concerned with Mac's play and if it doesn't start showing signs of improvement, my opinion of what is best for the team will start to shift.

Again, good to get the win today, and here's to hoping we see another step forward next week.

 

[Jlaff]

These headlines. There's a Bequette joke in there somewhere.

 

[Jlaff]

so...I guess my underlying point is,,,we NEED a #1 starting QB...we do not know what the hell Mac Jones is at this point. What we DO know is he is NOT in the physical class of the Mahomes/Allen/Burrow/Herbert type that headlines TODAY'S NFL. Let me spitball a "what if" scenario going into the 2023 NFL draft. We have all our picks and right now our 1st is projected #10. We already knopw that SF and at least four other NFL teams have been sniffing around the Mac Jones tree. OK, figuring Wynn is out of here by Tuesday for mid round picks (hopefully), will trading Jones to SF for their 2nd rounder be enough for us to package our 10 and move up into range of Houston's two top picks?
I'm guessing the 1st QB taken will be the Alabama's Bryce Young. With any luck we could get a shot at Will Levis from the Wildcats..a big, strong armed, bruising runner already playing a pro set for the past 2 seasons. Plug and play, Zappe backup, intelligent O line picks, let this kid mature and join the ranks of those QB's I mentioned. He's got the prerequisite skill set.

maybe a pipe dream...but I cannot see a future for Mac Jones here with THIS current coaching staff...and I refuse to buy into any "new Flutie" fan hysteria vis a vis Zappe.

I think SF gave up their 2nd (and more) for McCaffrey.

 

[venecol]

Condolences on the Patriots win today, li'l fella. That clutch fourth-down scoring pass by Mac Jones must have been hard on you.

Condolences? OK?

I'm happy we won. A win is a win. Pats win again next week against that awful Colts offense & rookie QB.

But if you think we're going far with this QB, you're delusional. He's terrible. Lucky he didn't have 3 picks (& a pick 6). He'll get exposed against better teams, just like last season. I hope someone in the FO is taking notice of his limitations.

 

[catent]

Maybe a bit more of a concise way to sum-up my eye-test:

Jones doesn't seem able to make the right decision consistently well. What I mean by that is, it often seems the ball doesn't go to the ideal receiver. He doesn't have that knack for knowing when to push it, when to check it down, when to throw it away.

On the other hand, Zappe seems to make the right decision more consistently. He knows when to take a shot, when to get the ball out quick, when to check-down, when to bail on the pocket.

If I had to guess, this probably comes down to how they're seeing the field. I still remember BB's comments after the Lions game about Zappe being able to see the field and articulate what he is seeing, consistently well. Zappe just looks calm, like his eyes and mind are synced up.

Jones looks anxious, like his eyes and mind are not in unison, as if he's not simultaneously seeing and processing what he's looking at; feels like his eyes are going quicker than his mind or vice versa.

 

[venecol]

Haven’t updated the stats DB yet, but
Mac Jones wasn’t exactly terrible there today.

10/14 (71.4%) for 64yds today on first down.

Mac's at the bottom of the Week 8 QB list in rating again. He beat out Stidham, so that's good. But a win is a win. We'll take it.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Condolences? OK?

I'm happy we won. A win is a win. Pats win again next week against that awful Colts offense & rookie QB.

But if you think we're going far with this QB, you're delusional. He's terrible. Lucky he didn't have 3 picks (& a pick 6). He'll get exposed against better teams, just like last season. I hope someone in the FO is taking notice of his limitations.

Mac has shown flashes and keeps getting better. Runner up for offensive rookie of the year in 2021. Maybe we have to display some patience and see how Mac develops.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Mac's at the bottom of the Week 8 QB list in rating again. He beat out Stidham, so that's good. But a win is a win. We'll take it.

View attachment 46799

Mac beat out Josh Allen too

 

[venecol]

Mac beat out Josh Allen too

He sure did, and Daniel Jones & Mills.

Look at where the other Bama QBs sit: at the top. I can see why Saban sat Mac behind those guys.

 

[Ian]

Condolences? OK?

I'm happy we won. A win is a win. Pats win again next week against that awful Colts offense & rookie QB.

But if you think we're going far with this QB, you're delusional. He's terrible. Lucky he didn't have 3 picks (& a pick 6). He'll get exposed against better teams, just like last season. I hope someone in the FO is taking notice of his limitations.

I’m sure they are. And none of us, or at least I don’t, want him playing if he can’t do it. Watching it back earlier, it was less bad than it felt initially. But it clearly still needs to be better.

Basically, my opinion is that the rest of this season is essentially an evaluation of his future. If it goes south, that will definitely result in a change, or at least an open competition with potentially a veteran also brought in.

But you’re putting a lot on a guy who also struggled Monday night and got picked twice. We still don’t know what we have yet and he did what Jones did last year. Played two good games in his first two starts and then threw multiple picks late against a tougher team.

Obviously, if Mac can’t do it, then we’ll have to hope Zappe can. But I’d like for them to do their full diligence on both before they part with either of them. You’re trying to rush it based on Zappe having two good games against two not so great teams.

That and Zappe ran a conventional offense and Mac is mostly in a shotgun spread…I don’t get it.

But I digress.

Either way, the future of this team requires a Qb and they can’t afford to be wrong about either of them. Hopefully one of them is the future because as I said, if they’re not, we’re in trouble.