Looking at preseason game #3 @ CAR

[long distance]

I. OFFENCE


1. WR
It was basically Brady to White for the 1st drive . probably to make things as smooth and sure as they can be at this point for first Brady's snaps entering new season. Later he did look for other targets but it was mostly Jules and Hogan. He did have 1 completion to each Patterson, Hollister and Dorsett but one would hope they get more involved this time around since they will have to step up week 1. With Gronk likely out im hoping for less White targets and going more towards new receivers to try and get some confidence there. Id be surprised if Decker is not in the mix with Brady enough this time esp. since they have big roster decision to make there - he costs 75K for preseason and 1.9M for the season if he is on week 1 roster even if he doesn't play a snap all year).

2. RB
Burkhead was reportedly limited so normally he would be out . but with the last (and only) chance to play some snaps with Brady before the season starts i wonder if they put him in a bit (esp. since Michel is out as well). Gillislee is struggling and was the worst patriot RB ypa (incl. Webb and Bolden) so i wonder if he gets another chance with 1st unit. Id prefer to see a lot of Hill w Tom in rushing, receiving and pass protecting, esp. bc. of his fumbling issues. He was on the field last game (also on ST) so i guess he is ready to go.

3. TE
Gronk will likely sit out preseason as usual so there will be plenty of space for Hollister and hopefully more plays go to him. Hopefully Allen is full go and it would be nice to see a couple of plays going to him as well. Tye was quietly getting a lot of field time last Thu also with TB which will be interesting to monitor as well.

4. OL
With Wynn out a race for #4 T is on. First, it will be interesting to see how T.Brown responds after up and down game. Second, where does Croston come in to the mix in new situation. He was lined up mostly at RG in TC esp. week 3 when Wynn played RT. Strangely he didn't play a single snap last game (with no reports on inj.; were they thinking trade?). While he was sitting out or playing RG Tobin and John emerged as strong candidates for backup tackle but John was also injured during the game so we might see a longer look at Croston as backup RT.

IOL rotation was strange as well with Karras and Ferentz (normally #2 and #3 backups at C) mostly playing guard and Bowanko taking #2 C duties. Schwenke got most #2 LG snaps . so hopefully this game gives some clarity to the backup situation that is becoming more important with Wynn gone, Cannon out, Mason in a contract year..


____
defence and ST coming up
ps
hopefully we can stay on topic

 

[long distance]

II. DEFENCE

@DL
Pretty clear situation at top 4 spots for DE. Keionta Davis got plenty of snaps last game inside and edge with 1st and second unit. T.Flowers was limited so it is questionable if they will play him. If not there should be another extensive look at Keionta. Lee and Harrsi are making rushing splashes but mostly 4th Q and its hard to see them getting better snaps this game. Grissom, a core ST player in both games showed some flashes of improvement and looked his best on D so maybe he gets some better snaps. (btw Lee saw some special teams snaps as well but with top ST dogs gradually coming back there might not be space for him this time.)

DL looks pretty much set as well with Shelton and Guy top options, Brown in healthy rotation and Butler doing his magic on 3rd downs. Valentine is fighting hard after coming back from injury but looks like un uphill climb at the moment being at least a step behind Brown (so his only chance could be if they'd care to trade Brown). Atkins and Herron are solid PS candidates at this point. Despite a clear situation could still be intriguing to see how they go about Keionta (who id guess they would like to keep and not risk him on waivers). Butler said himself that he wants to add every down value and added some bulk. He saw extensive look as DT alongside VV with second unit but struggled there and im not sure they would be comfortable with him stepping up for Brown so it will be interesting to see if how he does this time.

@LB
Its basically Bentley and Roberts for playing time (both had two solid games with Bentley getting more playing time in second game), KVN and Hightower to build confidence and game speed and all the rest for remaining spots with Grigsby a core ST, Sam a potential cover LB for the future and last year's discovery M.Flowers as someone who needs to come back to the field if he wants to catch a spot.

@CB
Crossen was up and down in his marathon run vs PHI. Despite some naive DPI calls he looked very positive to me, strong, fast, instinctive, solid tackler, monster TFL on first snap, goal line PBU .. so Im hoping to see him plenty again. JJ should start at nickel this time and maybe Cyrus gets some time as well. Rowe seems to be ahead of JMC for #2 spot so this could be the last chance for Jason to push for the spot. JC Jackson had a strong start of TC but didn't look good on Thu so hopefully he can bounce back. Another young gun to watch will be Ryan Lewis who missed last game. Plenty to watch on deepest position battles.

@S
Hopefully not another disappointing watch for Richards, Pleasant and Travis. Frustrating not to see anyone capable of stepping up behind DMC, Chung and Harmon for 3 years in a row..

 

[long distance]

III. SPECIAL TEAMS

Ghost, Allen, Cardona fix and in midseason form.

The core ST players over first two games were:
Richards, King, Bolden, Grigsby and Grissom.

JC Jackson, Wiltz, AJ Moore and Pleasant saw time as gunners and outside blockers. Most of the time they didn't do a good enough job imo. With ST alpha dogs slowly coming back on the practice field I hope to see JJ, Slater and Ebner with core guys to make this unit as it should be.
I really hope Patterson and Crossen finally enter the mix as gunners/outside blockers. Sam was playing a lot on ST since they are obviously keeping him on 53 and want to find a role and M.Flowers should enter the mix as well if he wants to compete for 53.

Return game was also very underwhelming so i do hope someone else takes the snaps there besides McCarron. Cyrus if hopefully ready to compete, Berrios was limited in practice so it is questionable if he is ready to go (but might be too late after that). We know Patterson will take the regular season KR duties but it would be nice if another punt returner emerges so that Jules, Hogs and Burk can be spared..

 

[farn]

On D, I think K Davis makes the team.

RB was the strongest unit last year from start to finish (minus Brady/QB, obv). Not only do I think they WILL, I think they SHOULD get them involved as much as possible this year as well.

 

[Jimke]

Tomorrow should be showtime for Eric Decker. The Patriots have only a
couple of weeks to figure out if he can contribute. Regardless, they should
be using their open roster spots to pick up someone like LaFell or trade for Austin
Carr if made available. Both these players know the system.

The Patriots might also want to consider keeping K. Davis and/or Valentine
because T. Flowers , Brown, and Shelton are free agents next year.

 

[Love The Drake]

Would like to see Berrios do his best Edelman impression.

 

[BobDigital]

I was about to make this thread before i saw it put up.

The things I will be watching this game.

OTs - I want to see how the unit here plays and what the depth looks like. I want to see solid blocking from Waddle and Brown all first half. Waddle may need to start the year at this rate and Brown had a few hiccups last game i wanted to see corrected. More so than even WR, this is the spot on offense that is the most important to watch.

WR - Week 3 is about getting the guys ready who will play more than working guys in. I don't expect Decker to get too many chances this game but he will need to cash on them big time if he does get any. I expect this game to be more about Dorsett and Patterson than Edelman or Hogan. We know what we have there. Brady needs reps with the other two to make sure they are ready as they will be targets this year.

TE - Hollister is the guy to watch obviously. He has been the TE to watch all preseason. Can he enter that circle of trust? It looks like he has to an extent but this will be a big night to show if he has.

RB - I don't care much about this unit for this game. I think by now they know what they have here and what they don't. Same for QB.

DL - This game is about Valentine/Butler/Davis. I doubt they keep all 3. I think Butler is safe as he is their best DT pass rusher and has looked good throughout camp. Valentine had a sack last game but so did everyone else and it was a very unimpressive coverage sack with the QB pretty much running into him. He needs to show more. I have rarely seen him show anything impressive. Davis looks to be the better player but behind a fairly deep DE core does keeping him as the 5th guy make sense? These are tough questions.

LB - This is all about Bentley. Roberts is what he is at this point. A good run stuffer who guesses far too often. I don't think that is changing any time soon. Hightower/Van Noy are the starters but we need a 3rd guy and Roberts doesn't look like a solid 3rd LB to me or anyone else i think at this point. Bentley made a few rookie mistakes the first 2 preseason games but has popped off the screen at times too. I don't expect an entirely clean game but i want to see it happen a 3rd time. Then you can start thinking that it's for real. He is the #1 guy I'll be watching on defense most when he is out there.

CB - I like this group. I think Gilmore, Rowe and McCourty are what I thought they'd be. Besides the one bad TD he gave up last game McCourty shut down whoever he was covering. Rowe has been having a solid enough camp. Gilmore will be fine and pick up where he left off last year i'm sure. I like the outside here. This is about the inside. IDK who will be playing tomorrow but I want to see how the slot looks. J. Jones and Dawson are the focus.

S - Not much to see or worry about here for the starters. Just stay healthy.

There are plenty of backups to watch too but i don't talk about them much in preseason game 3.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Tomorrow should be showtime for Eric Decker. The Patriots have only a
couple of weeks to figure out if he can contribute. Regardless, they should
be using their open roster spots to pick up someone like LaFell or trade for Austin
Carr if made available. Both these players know the system.

The Patriots might also want to consider keeping K. Davis and/or Valentine
because T. Flowers , Brown, and Shelton are free agents next year.

No thank you on Carr and Brandon Ladrop. One of these rookies might make the team.

 

[Jimke]

No thank you on Carr and Brandon Ladrop. One of these rookies might make the team.

Frankly, I haven't seen a decent young wide receiver this year. Maybe, they put in a claim when the teams cut to 53.

 

[PatriotReign]

I want J.C Jackson and Ryan Lewis to dominate. I have high hopes for both of these undrafted corners.

 

[Sciz]

Both tackles and a guard are out for Carolina, so it would be concerning if the starting defensive line doesn’t look great.

 

[supafly]

I’d be a bit surprised if they held Croston out of the game due to thoughts of a trade. I don’t think he’d really be bringing much of anything back, and that’s coming from someone who believes that he makes the roster.

 

[Mike the Brit]

DL - This game is about Valentine/Butler/Davis. I doubt they keep all 3. I think Butler is safe as he is their best DT pass rusher and has looked good throughout camp. Valentine had a sack last game but so did everyone else and it was a very unimpressive coverage sack with the QB pretty much running into him. He needs to show more. I have rarely seen him show anything impressive. Davis looks to be the better player but behind a fairly deep DE core does keeping him as the 5th guy make sense? These are tough questions.

The run stuff on the goal line stand against the Steelers was most certainly impressive.

VV was playing really well at the end of his rookie season, justifying the high hopes the Pats had for him (if you remember, Terrance Knighton said he was let go because the team had a rookie in his position they were high on). I've no idea if he'll come back at that level, but, if he does, he's got strong claims.

WATCH: Valentine makes big goal line stop​

 

[PP2]

Both tackles and a guard are out for Carolina, so it would be concerning if the starting defensive line doesn’t look great.

Cam Newton is a running QB, so this would be a good opportunity for the DE's to practice contain, and especially setting the edge (a big problem for us, last season). So I think we'll see less straight up rushing to collapse the pocket.

 

[Froob]

Would like to see Berrios do his best Edelman impression.

Is he really an Edelman like player where he can line up anywhere or is he more like Dola just primarily a slot guy? Hope he plays.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is he really an Edelman like player where he can line up anywhere or is he more like Dola just primarily a slot guy? Hope he plays.

Primarily a slot guy. I’d like to see him do anything at this point.

 

[primetime]

I mentioned this in another thread, but there's a belief that, because of the numbers game, Damiere Byrd is on the bubble for the Panthers. Expect the Patriots to take a long look at him during this game. He's an undersized speedster who had a brief run as Carolina's de facto WR1 last year.

 

[long distance]

I’d be a bit surprised if they held Croston out of the game due to thoughts of a trade. I don’t think he’d really be bringing much of anything back, and that’s coming from someone who believes that he makes the roster.

(thanks for reading the “small print“.. appreciate it)


Have you seen how other OLs look around the league? + big uglies dropping like flies..

People don't care about watching OL (not meaning you by any means), esp. 2nd units . and then they panic when Pats starter goes down or is not ready to return and then they are surprised how good OL looks with a no name guy stepping up. And it happens over and over (esp. when Dante is running the show).

How many people thought Andrews could step up (not to mention be an improvement to Stork)? Id guess people would laugh if someone suggested Andrews could be a trade asset in 2016. Like they laughed at Cannon being a starting tackle in this league etc etc.

BB kept Croston on initial 53 over Karras who already showed to Pats and others he can play in this league the season before. Obviously he thought Croston would not survive waivers. This year Croston is bigger, more experienced - practiced at tackle and guard - and scouts around the league know that.


note 1: Pats second unit OL is among highest rated OLs over 2 preseason games in the league . despite Hoyer not making it easy on them

note 2: Bowanko was Pats third string C for most of preseason. Before the start of last season he was traded from JAX to SEA for a draft pick.

note 3: August 21, 2017 - SEA acquired offensive lineman Matt Tobin and a 2018 seventh-round draft pick from PHI in exchange for a 2018 fifth-rounder.

note 4: In 2016 Pats went with Karras over Kline as IOL backup (first year Dante being back). Kline signed 4y 26M extension w TEN before this season.


I believe most Pats backup OL under Dante have value to other teams . so id be surprised the other way around - if they don't get some value in return..

 

[maineman209]

It seems likely to me that Tobin, John, Bowanko, Schwenke, etc. played while Croston sat NOT because those guys are necessarily "ahead" of Croston, but perhaps rather because Scar needed to evaluate them further, while he pretty much knows what he has (or doesn't have) with Croston.

I'm guessing that also applies to other guys at other positions who start tonight.

 

[maineman209]

August 21, 2017 - SEA acquired offensive lineman Matt Tobin and a 2018 seventh-round draft pick from PHI in exchange for a 2018 fifth-rounder.

As a sidebar, that was one, extremely well-traveled 7th round pick before it was finally employed on a draft prospect.

It was originally Seattle's and was traded to Philly in another deal, before it was traded back to Seattle in the Tobin deal. Then, it was traded to the Pats for Justin Coleman (who was originally drafted by Seattle, THEN trade back to Seattle in the Cassius Marsh deal.

It was traded again by Seattle during the draft, and I kinda lost track of it after that.

Seventh round picks matter. If you have $5.00 in your pocket, but there's something you want to buy that costs $5.25, it's good to have a few quarters in your pocket, too.