Looking at preseason game #3 @ CAR

[Mike the Brit]

I believe most Pats backup OL under Dante have value to other teams . so id be surprised the other way around - if they don't get some value in return..

Excellent post. Thank you!

You could have added that Cameron Fleming, who was down the depth chart last season, has been signed for up to $3.5m to start at right tackle for the Cowboys.

No one could pretend that losing Solder and Wynn and having Cannon injured yet again is ideal, but you give solid reasons not to be panicked.

 

[Kontradiction]

I mentioned this in another thread, but there's a belief that, because of the numbers game, Damiere Byrd is on the bubble for the Panthers. Expect the Patriots to take a long look at him during this game. He's an undersized speedster who had a brief run as Carolina's de facto WR1 last year.

Hopefully his route running has cleaned up since the draft. The kid is a burner and his route tree definitely increased into his junior year (IIRC) but his routes were still pretty sloppy. I do agree, however, that they will probably be taking a long and hard look at him.

 

[PatsFan2]

Primarily a slot guy. I’d like to see him do anything at this point.

Same goes for Riley McCarron.

 

[tasmlab]

Would like to see Berrios do his best Edelman impression.

It took Edelman about four years to figure out his own Edelman impression. But I'd like to see it too.

 

[mgteich]

For me, the issue for this game is about roster decisions. Getting the units to gel is secondary for Belichick, he doesn't expect this to happen until the 3rd or 4th regular season game.

QB - Who will be on our Practice Squad. This could be a Qb from another team.

RB - There is nor reason to even play Hill. Perhaps, Gillislie will be given one last chance to make the 53, or even be showcased in case someone will offer a 7th.

TE - The compeition is on Allan, Hillister, Tye. For me, the critical role for a #2 or #3 TE is blocking. We have the best past catching TE in the league.

WR - Decker needs some reps. Dorsett needs more reps. Paterson and Hogan are ready for the season. There is no reason to even play Edelman. I suppose the rest are competing for the Practice Squad spots. They should play lots after Brady is finished for the day.

OL - Dante has lots of evaluation to do with Cannon still injured. This is the largest issue on the offense.
===========
DL - Are Davis and Valentine making the team?
LB - Will Flowers get the last spot?
CB - The youngsters need more work. We have 6 players worthy of a roster spot. One will be out when we decide who will be our #4 safety. Also, there is competition for Practice Squad spots. This is the largest issue on defense.
S - Other than QB, this is our strongest unit. Let the youngster compete for the #4 position and for Practice Squad positions.
====
ST - Belichick likes to keep lots more than the punter, kicker and holder. Who will he keep to be expected to almost never play a position? The following seem to be locks: Slater, Ebner, King, and Bolden. Flowers will likely make it (or Grisby or Grissom). Richards or one of the other DB's might make it.

 

[maineman209]

TE - The compeition is on Allan, Hillister, Tye. For me, the critical role for a #2 or #3 TE is blocking.

Izzo is apparently sidelined for the game. Too bad. I would have liked to see more of him in early-quarter snaps.

 

[mgteich]

Izzo is apparently sidelined for the game. Too bad. I would have liked to see more of him in early-quarter snaps.

I would think that Izzo is headed for the Practice Squad.

 

[maineman209]

I would think that Izzo is headed for the Practice Squad.

I'm just not entirely certain yet, myself.

Hollister's receiving skills seem to have improved a bit (maybe), but his blocking still seems iffy to me. Izzo seems like a much better blocker, and has caught a few, too. Allen's blocking is unquestionably elite, but I don't really know if his receiving has improved at all (it may have, I just don't know).

I just feel like the #2 & #3 TE spots are still murky to me.

I really think Allen is worth the $5M for the Pats, but Iwouldn't be entirely shocked if the Pats kept both Hollister and Izzo and traded Allen.

 

[turkeyneck]

I'm most interested in how both Decker and Lucien get used. And how they perform. Is Decker getting the system? Can he get his hands to work? Can Lucien run with the ones and duplicate his PS game 1 performance? Does Brady trust him?

 

[long distance]

It seems likely to me that Tobin, John, Bowanko, Schwenke, etc. played while Croston sat NOT because those guys are necessarily "ahead" of Croston, but perhaps rather because Scar needed to evaluate them further, while he pretty much knows what he has (or doesn't have) with Croston.

I'm guessing that also applies to other guys at other positions who start tonight.

Croston still needs every snap he can . also for evaluation purposes . and he could've easily enter the mix (like in game 1) without taking too many snaps from others, esp. when Wynn went down. After John went out for injury they played Waddle again at RT with 2nd-3rd stringers and i doubt that was the plan. Id guess they'd know more about Waddle than Croston. Most simple explanation would be injury, but nothing was reported before or since iirc. The only other I can think of is possible trade discussions with someone (if the discussion is ongoing you don't play the player is the norm). With Wynn out of the equation at RT (+ injries to Cannon and John) the view on Croston's need for the roster changes..

Note: Croston was 2nd RG option and 3rd RT option during first part of preseason. In game 1 Tobin and John seem to outplay him. Tobin had another strong outing vs PHI. He has more size and NFL experience. Both are Iowa products. Both play G and T. Tobin plays left side, Croston plays right side. OL battles will be most intriguing tomorrow and next week and with constant changing of positions at IOL hard to project anything incl. Karras (with Bowanko and Schwenke making their solid case last weeek)

 

[long distance]

Underwhelming receiver's preseason continuing with Hollister not likely to play acc. to Reiss. With Izzo also out and Gronk likely out, Pats are left with only 2 TEs incl. Allen (hopefully) coming back from injury.. Burkhead out is not what Tommy wants at this point as well. The only good thing about it is more targets for Dorsett, Patterson, Decker, hopefully Allen..

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Is Cyrus Jones going to play tonight? Is there any chance in hell that he suddenly flips the switch and becomes a decent CB?

Or will he and Jordan Richards be tossed onto the dung pile that is the ghosts of past 2nd round DB busts such as:

Tavon Wilson
Ras -IR
Darius Butler
Terrance Wheatley

 

[mgteich]

I would not even be shocked if we kept Tye.

I'm just not entirely certain yet, myself.

Hollister's receiving skills seem to have improved a bit (maybe), but his blocking still seems iffy to me. Izzo seems like a much better blocker, and has caught a few, too. Allen's blocking is unquestionably elite, but I don't really know if his receiving has improved at all (it may have, I just don't know).

I just feel like the #2 & #3 TE spots are still murky to me.

I really think Allen is worth the $5M for the Pats, but Iwouldn't be entirely shocked if the Pats kept both Hollister and Izzo and traded Allen.

 

[long distance]

Is Cyrus Jones going to play tonight? Is there any chance in hell that he suddenly flips the switch and becomes a decent CB?

Would not bet on CB this yr . but could turn the switch at his punt returning that Pats desperately need imo

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Is Cyrus Jones going to play tonight? Is there any chance in hell that he suddenly flips the switch and becomes a decent CB?

Or will he and Jordan Richards be tossed onto the dung pile that is the ghosts of past 2nd round DB busts such as:

Tavon Wilson
Ras -IR
Darius Butler
Terrance Wheatley

Gilmore, Rowe. Dawson. I could consider those 3 locks at CB. After that we will see.

 

[supafly]

(thanks for reading the “small print“.. appreciate it)


Have you seen how other OLs look around the league? + big uglies dropping like flies..

People don't care about watching OL (not meaning you by any means), esp. 2nd units . and then they panic when Pats starter goes down or is not ready to return and then they are surprised how good OL looks with a no name guy stepping up. And it happens over and over (esp. when Dante is running the show).

How many people thought Andrews could step up (not to mention be an improvement to Stork)? Id guess people would laugh if someone suggested Andrews could be a trade asset in 2016. Like they laughed at Cannon being a starting tackle in this league etc etc.

BB kept Croston on initial 53 over Karras who already showed to Pats and others he can play in this league the season before. Obviously he thought Croston would not survive waivers. This year Croston is bigger, more experienced - practiced at tackle and guard - and scouts around the league know that.


note 1: Pats second unit OL is among highest rated OLs over 2 preseason games in the league . despite Hoyer not making it easy on them

note 2: Bowanko was Pats third string C for most of preseason. Before the start of last season he was traded from JAX to SEA for a draft pick.

note 3: August 21, 2017 - SEA acquired offensive lineman Matt Tobin and a 2018 seventh-round draft pick from PHI in exchange for a 2018 fifth-rounder.

note 4: In 2016 Pats went with Karras over Kline as IOL backup (first year Dante being back). Kline signed 4y 26M extension w TEN before this season.


I believe most Pats backup OL under Dante have value to other teams . so id be surprised the other way around - if they don't get some value in return..

I’m a Cole Croston fan, and I was actually a fan of Kline as well. I thought that he was a bit better than some other opinions, which were coming from posters whom I respect. Kline isn’t great, but I think he’s proven to be a solid enough starter as a guard.

I hope that we end up holding onto both Croston and Karras. I’d have Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Croston, Karras, and probably Waddle/Tobin. That way you’d have the potential for both 4 IOL and 4 OTs, with Croston’s versatility.

 

[mgteich]

I’m a Cole Croston fan, and I was actually a fan of Kline as well. I thought that he was a bit better than some other opinions, which were coming from posters whom I respect. Kline isn’t great, but I think he’s proven to be a solid enough starter as a guard.

I hope that we end up holding onto both Croston and Karras. I’d have Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Croston, Karras, and probably Tobin. That way you’d have the potential for both 4 IOL and 4 OTs, with Croston’s versatility.

Tobin is looking good. I still don't have him ahead of Waddle, given Cannon's injury.

 

[supafly]

Tobin is looking good. I still don't have him ahead of Waddle, given Cannon's injury.

I knew there was someone that I was forgetting. Even then, Waddle isn’t a lock, so I’d change my answer to one of Waddle/Tobin.

 

[mgteich]

We couldn't afford to pay Kline over $6M a year as a backup. If we had signed him, Mason would have been traded.

I’m a Cole Croston fan, and I was actually a fan of Kline as well. I thought that he was a bit better than some other opinions, which were coming from posters whom I respect. Kline isn’t great, but I think he’s proven to be a solid enough starter as a guard.

I hope that we end up holding onto both Croston and Karras. I’d have Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon, Croston, Karras, and probably Waddle/Tobin. That way you’d have the potential for both 4 IOL and 4 OTs, with Croston’s versatility.

 

[Ring 6]

For me, the issue for this game is about roster decisions. Getting the units to gel is secondary for Belichick, he doesn't expect this to happen until the 3rd or 4th regular season game.

QB - Who will be on our Practice Squad. This could be a Qb from another team.

RB - There is nor reason to even play Hill. Perhaps, Gillislie will be given one last chance to make the 53, or even be showcased in case someone will offer a 7th.

TE - The compeition is on Allan, Hillister, Tye. For me, the critical role for a #2 or #3 TE is blocking. We have the best past catching TE in the league.

WR - Decker needs some reps. Dorsett needs more reps. Paterson and Hogan are ready for the season. There is no reason to even play Edelman. I suppose the rest are competing for the Practice Squad spots. They should play lots after Brady is finished for the day.

OL - Dante has lots of evaluation to do with Cannon still injured. This is the largest issue on the offense.
===========
DL - Are Davis and Valentine making the team?
LB - Will Flowers get the last spot?
CB - The youngsters need more work. We have 6 players worthy of a roster spot. One will be out when we decide who will be our #4 safety. Also, there is competition for Practice Squad spots. This is the largest issue on defense.
S - Other than QB, this is our strongest unit. Let the youngster compete for the #4 position and for Practice Squad positions.
====
ST - Belichick likes to keep lots more than the punter, kicker and holder. Who will he keep to be expected to almost never play a position? The following seem to be locks: Slater, Ebner, King, and Bolden. Flowers will likely make it (or Grisby or Grissom). Richards or one of the other DB's might make it.

I disagree that he EXPECTS his units to gel in week 3 or 4 and doesn’t care.
He ACCEPTS that with the lack of contact allowed that it’s a dilemma he has to work within but that’s all the more reason to have working on it be a priority.