Looking at preseason game #3 @ CAR

[mgteich]

I'll accept that unit continuity is a major priority if Gronk starts.

I disagree that he EXPECTS his units to gel in week 3 or 4 and doesn’t care.
He ACCEPTS that with the lack of contact allowed that it’s a dilemma he has to work within but that’s all the more reason to have working on it be a priority.

 

[Sicilian]

I'll accept that unit continuity is a major priority if Gronk starts.

I think Gronk is a special case due to his injury history (and being a superstar). But if continuity and getting game ready wasn't a major goal for the 3rd preseason game, we wouldn't historically see so many people who end up week one starters play well into the 3rd quarter each time.

 

[supafly]

We couldn't afford to pay Kline over $6M a year as a backup. If we had signed him, Mason would have been traded.

I think the market was a bit different for him back when he was still here, but I get your point.

 

[luuked]

Is Cyrus Jones going to play tonight? Is there any chance in hell that he suddenly flips the switch and becomes a decent CB?

Or will he and Jordan Richards be tossed onto the dung pile that is the ghosts of past 2nd round DB busts such as:

Tavon Wilson
Ras -IR
Darius Butler
Terrance Wheatley

I didn't think Cyrus looked bad as CB. His entire reputation is based off his ST play really. Now I am not sure there is enough time left for him to make the team based on CB play but like I said I never thought he was bad at it.

 

[maineman209]

I didn't think Cyrus looked bad as CB. His entire reputation is based off his ST play really. Now I am not sure there is enough time left for him to make the team based on CB play but like I said I never thought he was bad at it.

Agree. I think he's simply run out of clock.

Assuming he plays tonight, I'd say he's going to need to look at least competent at CB with the #1s, as well as returning punts. He may even need to look reasonable in non-returner ST work.

 

[Hyped]

Comments:

a.) I always want NO INJURIES.....goes without saying....but I am saying it here (knocks on wood).

b.) Regarding Cole Croston….I *BELIEVE* that he is the only player since Brady that BB has carried on the 53 man roster for a year without playing a snap? (Brady did play a few snaps at the end of a blow out in Detroit in his rookie year though, but you get the idea) That in of itself means something, IMO. And the loss of Wynn at RT potentially makes Croston even more valuable...assuming the coaching staff still views him as a tackle more than a guard.

c.) Yes, I have hopes for Cyrus Jones...but like @maineman209 said...time probably has run out on him. Hope he can have some good PR's and maybe make a play or two in the secondary....like @luuked said...he was never a bad corner...his rep is based on bad PR'ing and getting hurt.

d.) For our WR...I want to see more from Dorsett, Patterson, and Decker.

e.) At TE, I believe Hollister is a lock for the 53 man roster already. So, it is between Allen, Tye, and Izzo...and I think Allen sticks though. No idea why we are paying him 5M...he must really BLOCK REAL GOOD....(shrugs)

f.) We have some competition for the 4th/5th DT/DE between Valentine/Butler/Davis...and the 5th LB (Hightower, KVN, and Bentley are locks, IMO...including King on ST) and I still think Flower sticks.

 

[Uptown]

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I didn't think Cyrus looked bad as CB. His entire reputation is based off his ST play really. Now I am not sure there is enough time left for him to make the team based on CB play but like I said I never thought he was bad at it.

IIRC (and I could be very, very wrong) I think some of the issue is that although it seemed like he was drafted to be the slot CB (where he seemed to look fine in limited action), but had also seen snaps outside where his performance was more so-so. Contrary to the general media narrative, BB doesn't always put players in the best position to succeed (look no further than Chung playing the slot in the SB). He tends to put veterans - players with confirmed limitations - in the best position to succeed. For players in their rookie deals, he puts them outside of their comfort zone to see if they can grow instead of keeping their pre-draft pigeonhole. Sometimes it fails (Chung's first stint, McCourty as outside corner in man), but other times it does work and pays huge dividends (Hightower as every down guy and not just a 1st round Brandon Spikes, Logan Ryan as outside man CB and not just slot or outside zone, Marcus Cannon as tackle and not guard).

With the Cyrus Jones pick, in retrospect I think BB was attempting to replace Logan Ryan and add punt returning abilities; and as a baseline figured he at least had a starting slot guy who could return punts. His troubles with punts and his torn ACL put an end to that baseline, and now he's way behind on the depth chart everywhere.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm just not entirely certain yet, myself.

Hollister's receiving skills seem to have improved a bit (maybe), but his blocking still seems iffy to me. Izzo seems like a much better blocker, and has caught a few, too. Allen's blocking is unquestionably elite, but I don't really know if his receiving has improved at all (it may have, I just don't know).

I just feel like the #2 & #3 TE spots are still murky to me.

I really think Allen is worth the $5M for the Pats, but Iwouldn't be entirely shocked if the Pats kept both Hollister and Izzo and traded Allen.

I think if we can get 75% OF WHAT ALLEN BRINGS TO THE TABLE AS A BLOCKER, IZZO WILL BE FINE.

 

[maineman209]

Comments:

a.) I always want NO INJURIES.....goes without saying....but I am saying it here (knocks on wood).

b.) Regarding Cole Croston….I *BELIEVE* that he is the only player since Brady that BB has carried on the 53 man roster for a year without playing a snap? (Brady did play a few snaps at the end of a blow out in Detroit in his rookie year though, but you get the idea) That in of itself means something, IMO. And the loss of Wynn at RT potentially makes Croston even more valuable...assuming the coaching staff still views him as a tackle more than a guard.

c.) Yes, I have hopes for Cyrus Jones...but like @maineman209 said...time probably has run out on him. Hope he can have some good PR's and maybe make a play or two in the secondary....like @luuked said...he was never a bad corner...his rep is based on bad PR'ing and getting hurt.

d.) For our WR...I want to see more from Dorsett, Patterson, and Decker.

e.) At TE, I believe Hollister is a lock for the 53 man roster already. So, it is between Allen, Tye, and Izzo...and I think Allen sticks though. No idea why we are paying him 5M...he must really BLOCK REAL GOOD....(shrugs)

f.) We have some competition for the 4th/5th DT/DE between Valentine/Butler/Davis...and the 5th LB (Hightower, KVN, and Bentley are locks, IMO...including King on ST) and I still think Flower sticks.

Croston could be this era's Russ Hochstein - able to fill in more or less adequately at every OL spot but Center.

Allen's $5M for 2018 is what came with his Indy contract when the Pats traded for him. He is an elite blocker. He can be as effective as a 6th OL, if need be. Something of particularly high value if one of the tackles, or backup tackles, needs help during a game.

Okay, why not just use a 6th OL, then? Well, AFAIK, none of the OL on the roster caught 136 passes or 1,536 yards and 20 TDs over the past 6 seasons. Sure, he did next to nothing receiving-wise with the Pats in 2017, but that doesn't mean he's never been a decent receiver or that he doesn't have the ability to contribute more in 2018.

 

[Ring 6]

Comments:

a.) I always want NO INJURIES.....goes without saying....but I am saying it here (knocks on wood).

b.) Regarding Cole Croston….I *BELIEVE* that he is the only player since Brady that BB has carried on the 53 man roster for a year without playing a snap? (Brady did play a few snaps at the end of a blow out in Detroit in his rookie year though, but you get the idea) That in of itself means something, IMO. And the loss of Wynn at RT potentially makes Croston even more valuable...assuming the coaching staff still views him as a tackle more than a guard.

c.) Yes, I have hopes for Cyrus Jones...but like @maineman209 said...time probably has run out on him. Hope he can have some good PR's and maybe make a play or two in the secondary....like @luuked said...he was never a bad corner...his rep is based on bad PR'ing and getting hurt.

d.) For our WR...I want to see more from Dorsett, Patterson, and Decker.

e.) At TE, I believe Hollister is a lock for the 53 man roster already. So, it is between Allen, Tye, and Izzo...and I think Allen sticks though. No idea why we are paying him 5M...he must really BLOCK REAL GOOD....(shrugs)

f.) We have some competition for the 4th/5th DT/DE between Valentine/Butler/Davis...and the 5th LB (Hightower, KVN, and Bentley are locks, IMO...including King on ST) and I still think Flower sticks.

Croston was active in 3 games, and played 8 offensive and 1 st snaps.

 

[PatsFan2]

Underwhelming receiver's preseason continuing with Hollister not likely to play acc. to Reiss. With Izzo also out and Gronk likely out, Pats are left with only 2 TEs incl. Allen (hopefully) coming back from injury.. Burkhead out is not what Tommy wants at this point as well. The only good thing about it is more targets for Dorsett, Patterson, Decker, hopefully Allen..

Alright I expected the fragile Burkmeister...but when did Hollister get banged up??

 

[maineman209]

IIRC (and I could be very, very wrong) I think some of the issue is that although it seemed like he was drafted to be the slot CB (where he seemed to look fine in limited action), but had also seen snaps outside where his performance was more so-so. Contrary to the general media narrative, BB doesn't always put players in the best position to succeed (look no further than Chung playing the slot in the SB). He tends to put veterans - players with confirmed limitations - in the best position to succeed. For players in their rookie deals, he puts them outside of their comfort zone to see if they can grow instead of keeping their pre-draft pigeonhole. Sometimes it fails (Chung's first stint, McCourty as outside corner in man), but other times it does work and pays huge dividends (Hightower as every down guy and not just a 1st round Brandon Spikes, Logan Ryan as outside man CB and not just slot or outside zone, Marcus Cannon as tackle and not guard).

With the Cyrus Jones pick, in retrospect I think BB was attempting to replace Logan Ryan and add punt returning abilities; and as a baseline figured he at least had a starting slot guy who could return punts. His troubles with punts and his torn ACL put an end to that baseline, and now he's way behind on the depth chart everywhere.

Chung has covered the slot quite a bit for the past couple-three seasons, situationally, and been quite good against TEs and RBs. Playing him the slot for the whole SB certainly wasn't ideal, but the personnel situation against the offensive scheme they were facing pretty much left the coaches with no better, or even equivalent options.

So, there are some logical caveats to that "always".

 

[Oswlek]

Regarding Cole Croston….I *BELIEVE* that he is the only player since Brady that BB has carried on the 53 man roster for a year without playing a snap?

I'm pretty sure he played a half dozen or so, though I couldn't tell you which games he was active for.

 

[Oswlek]

I think if we can get 75% OF WHAT ALLEN BRINGS TO THE TABLE AS A BLOCKER, IZZO WILL BE FINE.

76% or no deal.

(EDIT: why are gifs not displaying for me anymore? It shows up when I post or edit, but it gets X'd out once submitted. What am I doing wrong?)

 

[maineman209]

I'm pretty sure he played a half dozen or so, though I couldn't tell you which games he was active for.

Eight snaps total, spread over wks 10 (OAK), 11 (MIA), & 12 (BUF) ... plus 1 ST snap v. the Raiders.

 

[Kontradiction]

76% or no deal.

(EDIT: why are gifs not displaying for me anymore? It shows up when I post or edit, but it gets X'd out once submitted. What am I doing wrong?)

Is it a Giphy GIF? Those don’t post on this forum for whatever reason.

 

[Hyped]

I'm pretty sure he played a half dozen or so, though I couldn't tell you which games he was active for.

See @AndyJohnson 's post above. Croston played 8 snaps on offense and 1 on ST's over 3 games.

Either way...the guy was carried on the 53 all year without doing much in games.