Let's Pay Andrews

[Ring 6]

We can't afford to let good players go anymore. This isn't a situation where we are the dynasty Patriots with Brady and we can keep getting discounts. We are going to need to pay people.

You can’t let players go if you replace them with better ones, either at their own position or to upgrade a more critical one.
Andrews is not anywhere near irreplaceable.

 

[ashley]

We will have the top IOL in the league by playing not one, but two, players out of position???

Yes. Thuney is better at center than Andrews, we saw it last year when he played there for a short period. I believe Harris had his best game/games. I'm not an Andrews hater like some posters are, but he has his limitations...a great locker room. guy, but he can get dominated by a top d lineman.

 

[DaBruinz]

We will have the top IOL in the league by playing not one, but two, players out of position???

How is playing Onwenu at LG "playing him out of position"? How is moving Thuney to Center, where he showed he was better than Andrews "playing him out of position"?

Onwenu was seen as a OG when he was drafted. His being able to play RT was a BONUS.

This idea that you have that players being able to play multiple positions are somehow playing "out of position" has no basis in reality.

 

[mgteich]

Yes. Thuney is better at center than Andrews, we saw it last year when he played there for a short period. I believe Harris had his best game/games. I'm not an Andrews hater like some posters are, but he has his limitations...a great locker room. guy, but he can get dominated by a top d lineman.

Ok, I guess it's one at a time.

THUNEY
You have moved Thuney to center with ZERO backup.
Thuney used to be the starting LG, a top quality backup C and backup LT.
Somehow this is an improvement.

ONWENU
How much does this RT weight these days, 340?
Onwenu was one of the very best value in the draft. He could start for lots of teams at RT or RG.
You have moved him to LG.
Do you think that having that Onwenu is among the league's top LEFT guards to make the IOL the best?

 

[DaBruinz]

Trading Mason seems to make

Ok, I guess it's one at a time.

THUNEY
You have moved Thuney to center with ZERO backup.
Thuney used to be the starting LG, a top quality backup C and backup LT.
Somehow this is an improvement.

ONWENU
How much does this RT weight these days, 340?
Onwenu was one of the very best value in the draft. He could start for lots of teams at RT or RG.
You have moved him to LG.
Do you think that having that Onwenu is among the league's top LEFT guards to make the IOL the best?

Wow.. Talk about SWAGS on your part.

They have no back-up center or starting center currently. So, YES, signing Thuney to an extension to play center IS an upgrade. Yes, they would have to add a back-up, but they have to do that regardless. And I expect them to draft an IOL. Possibly Meinerz.

I know you didn't bother watching the games but Onwenu took snaps at LG, RG and RT. RG is currently occupied by Mason. LG is Empty. As is RT. Putting Onwenu at LG, which is where I believe the Pats had him destined when they drafted him. You seem to have forgotten the comments by the Patriots that they were surprised at how well Onwenu moved when they got him on the practice field. Him playing RT was a BONUS for them.

And wtf are you going on about with the "trading mason" ?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

You can’t let players go if you replace them with better ones, either at their own position or to upgrade a more critical one.
Andrews is not anywhere near irreplaceable.

Talking more about Thuney. We should keep him

 

[mgteich]

Wow.. Talk about SWAGS on your part.

They have no back-up center or starting center currently. So, YES, signing Thuney to an extension to play center IS an upgrade. Yes, they would have to add a back-up, but they have to do that regardless. And I expect them to draft an IOL. Possibly Meinerz.

I know you didn't bother watching the games but Onwenu took snaps at LG, RG and RT. RG is currently occupied by Mason. LG is Empty. As is RT. Putting Onwenu at LG, which is where I believe the Pats had him destined when they drafted him. You seem to have forgotten the comments by the Patriots that they were surprised at how well Onwenu moved when they got him on the practice field. Him playing RT was a BONUS for them.

And wtf are you going on about with the "trading mason" ?

I was responding to the suggestion that Onwenu-Thuney-Mason was arguably the best IOL in the NFL. I agree that we would be able to add a backup center.

I believe that Thuney is more valuable at LG (or even LT). Do you believe that he is one of the very best centers in the NFL?

I believe that Onwenu is a fine RG. Yes, RT was somewhat of a bonus. Belichick was surprised at how well Onwenu moved for a big man. I was also surprised. How do we get from this to him being one of the best LG's in the league, or one of a 3 man IOL that is the best in the NFL. I well understand that if Andrews goes and we pay Thuney his $15M for playing center then Onwenu is the likely LG. Apparently Mason is no good at the position.

The comment about Mason has been removed. His contract is an excellent one for the team.

IOL - Onwenu, Thuney, Mason, fa center
OT - Wynn, Cannon, Herron

Is this really an improvement?

 

[BTTA]

The Athletic has Thuney in Cat 1 of OL FA ("Empty the Wallet"). Here's the write up:

Joe Thuney, OG, New England Patriots (28)

The Patriots surprisingly used the franchise tag on Thuney last offseason. He may not have the same ceiling as some of the other players in this tier, but Thuney projects as one of the safer options, given his age and durability (80 consecutive regular-season starts over five seasons).

“His understanding of leverage and his use of hands are his two best traits,” Thorn said. “He’s undersized, probably average play strength, but he makes up for it with how well he plays with his leverage and just always being the low man, using his hands to manipulate guys. There’s a lot of variety to what he can do with his hands, so he’s unpredictable from an opponent perspective but consistent with what he does technique-wise.”

Thuney will likely find a deal near the top of the guard market, which means around $14 million per year.

 

[BTTA]

The Athletic has Andrews in Cat 2 of OL FA ("Starting Caliber Options"). There are two FA OC rated more highly - Linsley from GB and Martin from Houston.

Here's the write up:

David Andrews, OC, New England Patriots (29)

Andrews has 69 career starts. He missed all of 2019 because of a blood clot issue but returned last year, started 12 games and played well.

“I think it’s reasonable to expect him to be even better in 2021 after another year away from the health issues that he had, so I’m pretty high on him,” Thorn said. “I think he can be an above-average starter still. I think he’s pretty well-rounded. Not really elite in any area except for mental processing. I think he handles the pre-snap phase, calls and pass protection responsibilities really well. And I think he’s a pretty good run blocker. He’s kind of like a Corey Linsley light in some ways.”

Connor McGovern signed a three-year, $27 million deal with the New York Jets last offseason. That could be the floor for an Andrews deal.

 

[WeezyFbaby]

Jason Kelce just re-upped for 1 year 9 mil guaranteed could be up to 12. Arguably the best center in the NFL, zero chance in hell Andrews gets anywhere close to this let alone the 14 million ive seen mentioned. Still think his market is incredibly deflated, would be shocked at a deal more than 7 mil for David Andrews

 

[DaBruinz]

I was responding to the suggestion that Onwenu-Thuney-Mason was arguably the best IOL in the NFL. I agree that we would be able to add a backup center.

I believe that Thuney is more valuable at LG (or even LT). Do you believe that he is one of the very best centers in the NFL?

I believe that Onwenu is a fine RG. Yes, RT was somewhat of a bonus. Belichick was surprised at how well Onwenu moved for a big man. I was also surprised. How do we get from this to him being one of the best LG's in the league, or one of a 3 man IOL that is the best in the NFL. I well understand that if Andrews goes and we pay Thuney his $15M for playing center then Onwenu is the likely LG. Apparently Mason is no good at the position.

The comment about Mason has been removed. His contract is an excellent one for the team.

IOL - Onwenu, Thuney, Mason, fa center
OT - Wynn, Cannon, Herron

I know EXACTLY what you were responding to. The idea that Thuney is more valuable at LG or LT than at C is just SILLY. Unless you're relying on the concepts from 35 years ago that the Center of the O-line doesn't mean much. I go by the concept that the center is the 2nd most improtant piece of the O-line behind the blind-side tackle.

Onwenu wasn't brought in for the long term plan of playing RG. He was brought in to be the LG in the event that THUNEY moved on because Mason still had 3 years on his deal.

I've been saying that THUNEY should be moved to CENTER permanently since about Game 5 of the 2020 season after I realized just how much of a step back Andrews is from Thuney.

Thuney can make the line calls (he did so in 2019 and in the game he started at center this year). Thuney also has shown the ability to be able to handle the bull rush for the league's top NT and also be able to pick up the twists/stunts or delayed blitzes. Something that Andrews has always struggled with.

In your scenario, where Thuney stays at LG, the Pats would have 2 NEW centers. In mine, they have someone who has ALL-PRO talent and a reserve. They have a former All-pro at RG and a kid who's limit looks like it might be ALL-PRO caliber as well taking over for Thuney.

 

[Patriot_fan989]

I'd be furious if they spend a 1st rounder on a T or especially the dreaded DB.

One trade-back for a 2nd round DB, comin' right up

 

[venecol]

The Athletic has Thuney in Cat 1 of OL FA ("Empty the Wallet"). Here's the write up:

Joe Thuney, OG, New England Patriots (28)

The Patriots surprisingly used the franchise tag on Thuney last offseason. He may not have the same ceiling as some of the other players in this tier, but Thuney projects as one of the safer options, given his age and durability (80 consecutive regular-season starts over five seasons).

“His understanding of leverage and his use of hands are his two best traits,” Thorn said. “He’s undersized, probably average play strength, but he makes up for it with how well he plays with his leverage and just always being the low man, using his hands to manipulate guys. There’s a lot of variety to what he can do with his hands, so he’s unpredictable from an opponent perspective but consistent with what he does technique-wise.”

Thuney will likely find a deal near the top of the guard market, which means around $14 million per year.

He's gone. Ciao baby!

 

[venecol]

The Athletic has Andrews in Cat 2 of OL FA ("Starting Caliber Options"). There are two FA OC rated more highly - Linsley from GB and Martin from Houston.

Here's the write up:

David Andrews, OC, New England Patriots (29)

Andrews has 69 career starts. He missed all of 2019 because of a blood clot issue but returned last year, started 12 games and played well.

“I think it’s reasonable to expect him to be even better in 2021 after another year away from the health issues that he had, so I’m pretty high on him,” Thorn said. “I think he can be an above-average starter still. I think he’s pretty well-rounded. Not really elite in any area except for mental processing. I think he handles the pre-snap phase, calls and pass protection responsibilities really well. And I think he’s a pretty good run blocker. He’s kind of like a Corey Linsley light in some ways.”

Connor McGovern signed a three-year, $27 million deal with the New York Jets last offseason. That could be the floor for an Andrews deal.

Another one gone. Ciao bambino.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I got no problem losing thuney! I wish him the best of luck in cincy.

I do have a problem losing Andrews. But no way should we pay a center 9 million a year. Just because the Philly GM is a clueless does not mean we should overpay for Andrews.

I would rather draft the center from Kentucky in the sixth round and plug him in on day 1.

 

[mgteich]

I know EXACTLY what you were responding to. The idea that Thuney is more valuable at LG or LT than at C is just SILLY. Unless you're relying on the concepts from 35 years ago that the Center of the O-line doesn't mean much. I go by the concept that the center is the 2nd most improtant piece of the O-line behind the blind-side tackle.

Onwenu wasn't brought in for the long term plan of playing RG. He was brought in to be the LG in the event that THUNEY moved on because Mason still had 3 years on his deal.

I've been saying that THUNEY should be moved to CENTER permanently since about Game 5 of the 2020 season after I realized just how much of a step back Andrews is from Thuney.

Thuney can make the line calls (he did so in 2019 and in the game he started at center this year). Thuney also has shown the ability to be able to handle the bull rush for the league's top NT and also be able to pick up the twists/stunts or delayed blitzes. Something that Andrews has always struggled with.

In your scenario, where Thuney stays at LG, the Pats would have 2 NEW centers. In mine, they have someone who has ALL-PRO talent and a reserve. They have a former All-pro at RG and a kid who's limit looks like it might be ALL-PRO caliber as well taking over for Thuney.

If your analysis is correct, then we should extend Thuney at market prices, or franchise him if necessary. This SHOULD be the case if C is as valuable as LT and Onwenu is a quality LG. We'll see. You have been right before; it happens.

 

[Ring 6]

Another one gone. Ciao bambino.

It would be insane to pay him that kind of money. 3 for 15 would be the highest I would go.

 

[Ring 6]

I was responding to the suggestion that Onwenu-Thuney-Mason was arguably the best IOL in the NFL. I agree that we would be able to add a backup center.

I believe that Thuney is more valuable at LG (or even LT). Do you believe that he is one of the very best centers in the NFL?

I believe that Onwenu is a fine RG. Yes, RT was somewhat of a bonus. Belichick was surprised at how well Onwenu moved for a big man. I was also surprised. How do we get from this to him being one of the best LG's in the league, or one of a 3 man IOL that is the best in the NFL. I well understand that if Andrews goes and we pay Thuney his $15M for playing center then Onwenu is the likely LG. Apparently Mason is no good at the position.

The comment about Mason has been removed. His contract is an excellent one for the team.

IOL - Onwenu, Thuney, Mason, fa center
OT - Wynn, Cannon, Herron

Is this really an improvement?

LG and RG are basically the same position now. There are not different skill set and responsibilities on the left vs the right.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The Britt signing should be helpful in trying to baseline Andrews' market value.

Andrews should be around there. ~$3-4m per season.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

LG and RG are basically the same position now. There are not different skill set and responsibilities on the left vs the right.

I know coaches see it as guys should be able to play both sides of the center.

I know guys I have played with that are better taking on blockers from their right first versus their left.

as a fullback, I preferred taking in guys attacking me on the left side as opposed to the right side.