Kyle Dugger unhappy with transition tag

[TinhWoodhead]

why do i always think of Grave Digger when i see his name…

 

[UGAPatsfan]

What you see or don't see don't matter one bit in the scheme of things. I just gave you numbers for the player you wanted to replace Duggerf and because it shows that the guy you want is no better than Dugger, you spin your shtick. You think SIMMONS is feared in Coverage? He gave up nearly identical percentage as Dugger.

Every "argument" you've had to this point has been shoddy at best. They certainly aren't backed up by facts.

- You claimed Dugger was a "glorified LB". I showed you that LBs actually get more money.
- You claimed that Simmons was better in coverage. I showed that they are nearly identical in coverage.
- You claimed that Simmons will be cheaper, but ignore the fact that Dugger is 2+ years younger than Simmons.

The facts don't support the opinions you've put up. Instead of admitting to being wrong, you've basically taken issue with the accurate portrayal of your entire opinion. Which is that you tried to denigrate a player with your flayed opinions only to have them backfire in your face because the facts show that the "glorified LB" played just as well as the "Pro-Bowl FS".

You made my point for me…Duggar and Simmons have reasonably similar numbers. Simmons would cost half. My point is that Duggar is “unhappy” with an offer which the 2024 market has shown to be on the high end for a Safety. I don’t care what players got in previous seasons.

Don’t like Simmons?

No problem…draft a guy in the 4th rd.

Bullard or Smith from GA or Kitchens from FSU comes to mind.

I just don’t want malcontents…if he doesn’t want to be here at that $ then find a team who wants him and move on.

It’s not like losing prime Ed Reed. He’s not that guy.

Decent player but…

He’s replaceable.

You seem to relish the idea of “owning” fellow fans who disagree with you. It’s kind of weird if I’m honest.

 

[bakes781]

Julian Blackmon's deal is for one year and reported to be worth up to $7.7 million, including $3.2M in guaranteed.

Dugger is getting double that.

 

[mgteich]

You made my point for me…Duggar and Simmons have reasonably similar numbers. Simmons would cost half. My point is that Duggar is “unhappy” with an offer which the 2024 market has shown to be on the high end for a Safety. I don’t care what players got in previous seasons.

Don’t like Simmons?

No problem…draft a guy in the 4th rd.

This is a common opinion among posters.

Players considered close to the best at their position can easily be replaced by a 4th rounder.

The FIRST, SECOND and THIRD provide no guarantees. Are there even two safeties as good as Duggar and Simmons in the first? Considering it no problem to replace Dugger by a 4th with no problem is outright nonsense IMO. If this anywhere near true, we should remove his tag before he signs it.

 

[UGAPatsfan]

This is a common opinion among posters.

Players considered close to the best at their position can easily be replaced by a 4th rounder.

The FIRST, SECOND and THIRD provide no guarantees. Are there even two safeties as good as Duggar and Simmons in the first? Considering it no problem to replace Dugger by a 4th with no problem is outright nonsense IMO. If this anywhere near true, we should remove his tag before he signs it.

Fair points and I’ll expound:

To me we have two VERY similar players in Duggar and Peppers. I believe Pep is better than Duggar at the role they are both best suites for. Having both isn’t a necessity and the safety market wasn’t sexy this year.

I’m actually in favor of rescinding the tag on Duggar as the market has spoken…it’s too high for this year.

BUT…they won’t because of optics.

If he wants to play hardball and hold out (real possibility), I’d tell his agent to find a trade partner.

I don’t think we need to replace Duggars skillset as we already have two on the team in Pep and Mapu.

DMac is actually who we need to replace IMO.

 

[mgteich]

Fair points and I’ll expound:

To me we have two VERY similar players in Duggar and Peppers. I believe Pep is better than Duggar at the role they are both best suites for. Having both isn’t a necessity and the safety market wasn’t sexy this year.

I’m actually in favor of rescinding the tag on Duggar as the market has spoken…it’s too high for this year.

BUT…they won’t because of optics.

If he wants to play hardball and hold out (real possibility), I’d tell his agent to find a trade partner.

I don’t think we need to replace Duggars skillset as we already have two on the team in Pep and Mapu.

DMac is actually who we need to replace IMO.

I also prefer to have a replacement for DMac.

I don't understand your hardball comment. I don't think that patriots have any intention of negotiating with Dugger. That's done, and team found out who had the evaluation right.

Optics should be ignored. If the team agrees with your analysis, they need to immediately withdraw the tag before Dugger signs it. The team could use the money to sign two defensive backs, including a free safety if they can find on that fits our system better the current scheme.

My thinking is that really like Dugger and are fine with him playing at the tag value. Next year is next year.

 

[DW Toys]

Unsurprisingly, word out now is that Dugger is angry about the transition tag.

My guess is that he feels like the Patriots hurt his chances in FA because they could match any offer.

Cousins, Love to keep Dugger but if he wants out two Teams need a Saftey. Green Bay and Dallas. Green Bay owns pick #68 in the second Round. We have a replacement or two (Mapu) even though he is an important cog.
You want out? See ya.
The ideal trade might have been Buffalo for Diggs but ya I know ....same AFC North East.
DW Toys

 

[UGAPatsfan]

I also prefer to have a replacement for DMac.

I don't understand your hardball comment. I don't think that patriots have any intention of negotiating with Dugger. That's done, and team found out who had the evaluation right.

Optics should be ignored. If the team agrees with your analysis, they need to immediately withdraw the tag before Dugger signs it. The team could use the money to sign two defensive backs, including a free safety if they can find on that fits our system better the current scheme.

My thinking is that really like Dugger and are fine with him playing at the tag value. Next year is next year.

To clarify my hardball comment…seems Duggar/his camp are unhappy with the tag. These situations can lead to holdouts…that’s what I meant by hardball.

They have to gauge how unhappy he is…if he isn’t inclined to show up for camp, I think that changes what they need to do.

Giardi basically said the same thing in the mailbag today.

Hard to tell what’s real vs agent posturing

 

[AQPE]

I like but don’t love Duggar, he’s better than Peppers or anyone on the roster right now for SS but absolutely is not a suitable FS. I’m hoping they trade him (perhaps as part of a package) in the draft to fill one of their more pressing needs (such as FS, LT, or WR) with a better prospect than they would otherwise be able to get, and roll with Peppers, Mapu, and another depth piece at SS.

 

[Vindicate]

It'll be interesting to see how some of these players fair without the old staff. Plenty of **** to throw at them on their way out, but one thing you can't take away was their ability to put defensive players in their best position to succeed. I hope Mayo can continue that.

Quite a few players from NE defenses over the past decade have thrived in NE, gotten a big contract elsewhere, and immediately became a footnote.

Mayo knows what he's getting with Duggar, and how much money you have to spend to make sure his piece fits the puzzle. The cost isn't just one player - it's also "so if I have Duggar in this position, and he's not great with this one quality, do I have the necessary squad to justify the cost for this?"

Interesting that the safety market is down. I wonder why? Do defenses feel more confident in game planning against these high powered offense rules

 

[patfanken]

I like but don’t love Duggar, he’s better than Peppers or anyone on the roster right now for SS but absolutely is not a suitable FS. I’m hoping they trade him (perhaps as part of a package) in the draft to fill one of their more pressing needs (such as FS, LT, or WR) with a better prospect than they would otherwise be able to get, and roll with Peppers, Mapu, and another depth piece at SS.

We have stop trying to fit players into tight job descriptions like SS and FS. Defenses have evolved away from those strict job descriptions. SS is no longer just someone to covers lumbering TE's and backs out of the backfield and supply support in the run game. Passing attacks will eat up coverages like that. So called SS have to have more coverage skills and more position flexibility, especially now that defenses ave become more complex in their disguises.

As average completion rates for QB's inch closer to the 70% range, defenses need to use more complex disguises in order to compete.. Think about that for a second. Mac Jones who had a HORRIBLE season in 23, completed 65% of his passes. 50 years ago anything over a 50% completion rate was a decent number for an NFL QB. 20 years ago 65% would get you to a probowl. In 2023 it got you into the bottom 5 in most evaluations. Of course completion rates are hardly the end all of passing stats, but just to make a point. In an age when BAD QB's are completing over 60% of their passes, defenses have to be prepared to do some crazy **** to keep up.

 

[Uptown]

 

[upstater1]

It'll be interesting to see how some of these players fair without the old staff. Plenty of **** to throw at them on their way out, but one thing you can't take away was their ability to put defensive players in their best position to succeed. I hope Mayo can continue that.

Quite a few players from NE defenses over the past decade have thrived in NE, gotten a big contract elsewhere, and immediately became a footnote.

Mayo knows what he's getting with Duggar, and how much money you have to spend to make sure his piece fits the puzzle. The cost isn't just one player - it's also "so if I have Duggar in this position, and he's not great with this one quality, do I have the necessary squad to justify the cost for this?"

Interesting that the safety market is down. I wonder why? Do defenses feel more confident in game planning against these high powered offense rules

Dugger had a great year in '22. He could also go to another team where they take advantage of his aggressiveness and he thrives there and becomes an All-Pro. He's that talented.


Moderator Edit: Pats signed Kyle Dugger to a contract 4/7.
For further discussion, go to the new thread:

Dugger 4 yr extension 32 mil

4 yr extension 32 mil

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