Kraft to Giants Owner: You guys would have beaten us in SB

[Kontradiction]

It's that sort of silly/awkward thing you say when you're stuck talking to someone you don't know and you decide to go with the self-deprecating comments.

Then that person starts telling everyone you actually have a small ****.

Personal experience? I like your new avatar. I, too, am a fan of the Nature Boy Ric Flair.

 

[fnordcircle]

Personal experience? I like your new avatar. I, too, am a fan of the Nature Boy Ric Flair.

Personal experience with small ****s? Uh...no. Nope, not at all.

And my avatar is Edgar Winter, you idiot!

 

[Clonamery]

Personal experience with small ****s? Uh...no. Nope, not at all.

And my avatar is Edgar Winter, you idiot!

I thought it was Cloris Leachman, ya perv.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

no way the guy should be in the hall of fame? He's got 2 rings and by the time he retires he's going to be top 10 in a lot of categories. He already is in some. He's tough as nails. Sometimes it's so hard to read material here at least for me because of the utter lack of respect to accomplishments of other teams. And that's not necessarily always the case with you Ice

I believe that to qualify for the Hall of Fame, you need to be one of the best quarterbacks among your peers in your era. I could get into a very long statistical analysis that shows that Eli is leaps and bounds below the level of actual Hall of Fame worthy quarterbacks for this era, but we all know it already.

It's not that Eli is a little bit removed from his elite peers when it comes to his actual level of overall play, including his passer rating, interceptions, efficiency stats, and winning percentage. It's that he is way, way behind them, to the extent he should not be a Hall of Fame quarterback.

 

[shmessy]

Personal experience with small ****s? Uh...no. Nope, not at all.

And my avatar is Edgar Winter, you idiot!

Is that her code name?

 

[fnordcircle]

Is that her code name?

 

[TBR]

The Giants pulled 2 fluke Super Bowls out their asses vs the Patriots therefore they would've beat the Patriots this past February (???????????)

 

[Edelmania]

1. I dont believe Kraft said this and if he did I dont think he actually meant it or believes it and was probably just joking around or being nice.
2. If he really did say this and he believed it then thats just terrible. I wouldnt want to play for him anymore if I was a player. He has to have more confidence in his team and Tom Brady than that.

 

[jmt57]

I have long had the same theory as @Ice_Ice_Brady in regards to merit of a player getting into the Hall of Fame. When considering a player for HoF I compare him to his peers, not guys who played in previous eras. Looking at all-time career leader rankings is useless. By that measure Vinny Testaverde and Kerry Collins should be in the HoF since they both finished their careers as top-10 quarterbacks.

In regards to two Superbowl wins, by that logic Jim Plunkett should be in and Dan Marino out. Let's look at where Eli Manning ranks among his peers.

Eli Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Aside from the two rings, Eli has two things going for him: among active players he ranks 2nd in comebacks and 3rd in game winning drives. Impressive, until you look at the other side of the ledger.

Passing Yards: never led the league, no single season in the top-3. More seasons outside the top-10 than in the top-10. Puts his #8 all-time ranking in perspective.

Passing Yards per Game: 12th among active players. Best was #5 in 2011.

Yards per Pass Attempt: 17th among active players. Only one top-5 season (4th in 2011).

Passer Rating: 23rd among active players. Only one top-ten finish, 7th in 2011. Yikes!

Pass Completion%: Eli ranks just 21st among active players. His career completion percentage is below 60% - a number worthy of being benched, not enshrined in Canton.

Passing TD: While it is true he is 3rd among active QBs, that has more to do with longevity than anything else. He has only had two top-five seasons.

Passing TD%: The seven top-10 finishes looks good, but he has also had six seasons outside the top 10. He was never better than 5th, and is only 9th among active players.

Interceptions: Led the league in picks not once, not twice, but three times! Overall he is 2nd all-time among active players. This more than offsets his current ranking of career TDs.

Pass Interception%: To add more context to the above stat, Eli ranks an abysmal 25th among active players in this category.

Won-Loss: To be fair NFL football is the ultimate team game, but is a .542 record as starter Hall-worthy? Also the two SB runs are offset by four one-and-dones.


Unfortunately all the facts won't matter. He benefits from both the hype machine of being in the NFL Royal Family as well as playing in NYC. He'll be voted in to Canton, undeservedly so, quite possibly in his first year of eligibility.

 

[jmt57]

To add on to the previous post, compare Eli to Philip Rivers:

Philip Rivers Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Passing Yards:Rivers is 5th among active players to Eli's #3 ranking, but more consistent with nine top-ten seasons.

Passing Yards per Game: Rivers is 8th among active players with eight top-10 seasons. Advantage to Rivers.

Yards per Pass Attempt: Rivers in a landslide. He ranks 6th among active players and led the league three times.

Passer Rating: Rivers over Eli again: he ranks 6th among active players with five top-10 seasons, and led the NFL in 2008.

Pass Completion%: Rivers is 7th among active players, leaving Eli's 21st ranking in the dust. Rivers led the league in 2013 and has 8 seasons in the top-10.

Passing TD: 4th among active players, 9 seasons in the top 10 and led the NFL once. Slight edge to Rivers.

Passing TD%: Rivers is 5th overall among active players, led the NFL once and was in the top-10 nine times. Rivers > Eli again.

Interceptions: Rivers led the NFL in picks twice, Eli three times. Rivers 5th among active players, Eli 2nd. Eli's ten years in the top ten is worse than Rivers' six. Edge to Rivers.

Pass Interception%: Rivers is 13th among active QBs, Eli 25th.

Won-Loss: Rivers' 97-79 (.551) record is about the same as Eli's 108-91 (.542). Eli does have a better playoff record, 8-4 vs 4-5. Advantage Eli.



Overall Philip Rivers is probably more deserving of the Hall of Fame than Eli Manning. In reality both deserve the Hall of Very Good and their own team's HoF, but neither belong in Canton.

 

[Big Bucks]

I take it as Kraft saying the Giants owner has Goodell in his corner and can do what the fcuk he likes including win superbowls allegedly..

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Archie Manning wouldn't let Eli play for that joke Chargers franchise because, let's face it, that franchise sucks. Even despite that:

Career Winning Percentage:
Philip Rivers, .551
Eli Manning, .543

Career QB Rating:
Philip Rivers, 94.7
Eli Manning, 83.7

Eli Manning is luckiest little **** the league has ever seen. He got incredibly lucky twice, getting every imaginable break, while the rest of his entire career has revealed an average-at-best quarterback whose reputation is about 10x his actual level of play. There is no way this guy should be in the Hall of Fame. I don't care if he has two SB MVPs. I guess Malcolm Smith is also one SB MVP away from Canton as well.

Milk.
Spilled.
Tears.

Why?

 

[sambam94]

If true, he probably meant that if the Giants were up 28-3, they would have won

 

[PatsFanSince74]

It's definitely time to fast-forward to the Draft when we're at over 72 posts on a throwaway comment.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I am also in the camp that Eli is massively overrated and not HOF worthy. He is the epitome of a middle of the pack QB who had two exceptional playoff runs. His biggest regular season accomplishment is playing so many games in a row. If he is in then this era is going to have to put in 7 or 8 QBs at a minimum. Eli is like Flacco in that they've had some memorable playoff wins but is inconsistent year after year. At their peak they have HOF ability - just do not show it enough. All that said, I do think Eli will ultimately make it in.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I have long had the same theory as @Ice_Ice_Brady in regards to merit of a player getting into the Hall of Fame. When considering a player for HoF I compare him to his peers, not guys who played in previous eras. Looking at all-time career leader rankings is useless. By that measure Vinny Testaverde and Kerry Collins should be in the HoF since they both finished their careers as top-10 quarterbacks.

In regards to two Superbowl wins, by that logic Jim Plunkett should be in and Dan Marino out. Let's look at where Eli Manning ranks among his peers.

Eli Manning Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Aside from the two rings, Eli has two things going for him: among active players he ranks 2nd in comebacks and 3rd in game winning drives. Impressive, until you look at the other side of the ledger.

Passing Yards: never led the league, no single season in the top-3. More seasons outside the top-10 than in the top-10. Puts his #8 all-time ranking in perspective.

Passing Yards per Game: 12th among active players. Best was #5 in 2011.

Yards per Pass Attempt: 17th among active players. Only one top-5 season (4th in 2011).

Passer Rating: 23rd among active players. Only one top-ten finish, 7th in 2011. Yikes!

Pass Completion%: Eli ranks just 21st among active players. His career completion percentage is below 60% - a number worthy of being benched, not enshrined in Canton.

Passing TD: While it is true he is 3rd among active QBs, that has more to do with longevity. than anything else. He has only had two top-five seasons.

Passing TD%: The seven top-10 finishes looks good, but he has also had six seasons outside the top 10. He was never better than 5th, and is only 9th among active players.

Interceptions: Led the league in picks not once, not twice, but three times! Overall he is 2nd all-time among active players. This more than offsets his current ranking of career TDs.

Pass Interception%: To add more context to the above stat, Eli ranks an abysmal 25th among active players in this category.

Won-Loss: To be fair NFL football is the ultimate team game, but is a .542 record as starter Hall-worthy? Also the two SB runs are offset by four one-and-dones.


Unfortunately all the facts won't matter. He benefits both the hype machine of being in the NFL Royal Family as well as playing in NYC. He'll be voted in to Canton, undeservedly so, quite possibly in his first year of eligibility.

He has a lot of comebacks and game winning drives because he is often in close games, many times due to his mediocre or poor play. He has what, almost 100 losses? That's a lot of opportunities for comebacks. I don't think he is clutch, I think when you consistently score roughly 20-23 points per game and turn the ball over twice, you will find yourself many times in a one possession game in the 4th. Brady's comeback percentage rate is miles ahead, as are actual elite quarterbacks.

 

[MitchKumstein]

I haven't decided yet whether Kraft's comment to the Giants owner bothers me (or if he even said it), but it was a **** move for the Giant's owner to make it public.

The conspiracy theorist in me also wonders if Tisch is trying to stir up a little controversy between Kraft and BB/Brady

 

[Froob]

Were the Giants a boat trip away from a championship? We don't know and we shouldn't have to wonder.

 

[Thelonious]

Every successful businessman is in part a salesman, so they just reflexively kiss a little ass from time to time. That's all this is: a little creepy but not unexpected.

What he should have said was, " If you guys had been good enough to make it to the SB, which you weren't, you would have had a chance of beating us."

 

[RayClay]

Anybody that ran the ball and kicked a field goal, instead of taking a sack, could have beat us.