Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[A Defiant Goose]

It’s not a story because it’s a vile act it’s a story because it’s a celebrity and a salacious topic.

Yeah that's fair but the moral pearl clutching in this thread is driving me nuts.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Considering that it appears you don’t understand it I am not surprised you feel that way.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Let's not minimize this.

What he allegedly did was pretty horrible. He didn't go to The Bunny Ranch. He went to an establishment that treated these women horribly, held them against their will, and forced them to have sex with strange men for money. The fact that there was a clientele that included the likes of Bob Kraft allowed this to happen.

It's not just embarrassing. It's wrong.

That said, one mistake - even a horrible one - shouldn't permanently ruin the reputation of a man who's done so much good in the world. He doesn't get a free pass, but I think it's something that people should eventually get over.

If he indeed get a hand job, what makes you think Kraft was aware of the conditions you describe there?

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah that's fair but the moral pearl clutching in this thread is driving me nuts.

I would surmise that there are very few men alive that, in a situation where for whatever reason, they can’t get any, that they wouldn’t go to get a massage with a happy ending.
It’s not the action that’s the issue it’s the fallout and the image that is supposed to be perfect that’s tainted.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Considering that it appears you don’t understand it I am not surprised you feel that way.

As much as I enjoy listening to non-lawyers explaining legal concepts, I think I'll pass on this one.

 

[Ring 6]

Smirk all you want but your comments indicate you not only don’t understand the 4th amendment but you arent even close to understanding it.

 

[Antdawg]

The more dirt they get on them, the more they can charge them, the more chance of those charges sticking.

Yeah man, I mean I get it, but you're talking about taking down mostly senior-citizen age men for paying for (gasp) handjobs versus ending a human trafficking operation where women are being exploited and held against their will. In other words, the means don't really justify the end.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

If he indeed get a hand job, what makes you think Kraft was aware of the conditions you describe there?

Because I would have expected a billionaire team owner to be in touch enough with the world to know that places like that are heavy users of sex slaves. Hell, a place like that was busted for prostitution and trafficking one town over from where Kraft lives in MA.

 

[Ring 6]

As much as I enjoy listening to non-lawyers explaining legal concepts, I think I'll pass on this one.

If you are a lawyer clearly you either are some kind of real estate, bankruptcy or personal injury lawyer or you really suck.

 

[Ring 6]

Because I would have expected a billionaire team owner to be in touch enough with the world to know that places like that are heavy users of sex slaves. Hell, a place like that was busted for prostitution and trafficking one town over from where Kraft lives in MA.

Why would being a billionaire team owner raise the level of expectation that he knows what is going on in a massage parlor?

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

If you are a lawyer clearly you either are some kind of real estate, bankruptcy or personal injury lawyer or you really suck.

That's very charming of you. I don't do criminal case, but I understand the concept of reasonable searches and seizures. That concept pretty much died after 9/11 and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

 

[Antdawg]

Because I would have expected a billionaire team owner to be in touch enough with the world to know that places like that are heavy users of sex slaves. Hell, a place like that was busted for prostitution and trafficking one town over from where Kraft lives in MA.

I don't think it's really fair to assume Kraft knew there was human trafficking involved here.

 

[Ring 6]

That's very charming of you. I don't do criminal case, but I understand the concept of reasonable searches and seizures. That concept pretty much died after 9/11 and you're a fool if you believe otherwise.

You literally said that if a properly obtained warrant is executed the people in the purview of the investigation who are doing no wrong had their 4th amendment rights violated by being observed. That is beyond stupid.

 

[mosi]

Man, why can't we have a single ****ing superbowl win without some drama. Really. Just one.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Because I would have expected a billionaire team owner to be in touch enough with the world to know that places like that are heavy users of sex slaves. Hell, a place like that was busted for prostitution and trafficking one town over from where Kraft lives in MA.

I disagree. Who knows who gave him that address and what the circumstances were? There are a lot of plausible scenarios.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

You literally said that if a properly obtained warrant is executed the people in the purview of the investigation who are doing no wrong had their 4th amendment rights violated by being observed. That is beyond stupid.

You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Man, why can't we have a single ****ing superbowl win without some drama. Really. Just one.

Now what fun would that be?

 

[lancerman]

Yeah man, I mean I get it, but you're talking about taking down mostly senior-citizen age men for paying for (gasp) handjobs versus ending a human trafficking operation where women are being exploited and held against their will. In other words, the means don't really justify the end.

I get that but say they run in and get everyone and now have evidence on 50 clients, maybe some weasel out of the charges, but you don't have to worry about that hurting the whole case. If they go in after the first John, don't have an airtight case, the trafickers can say "the guy you accused got acquitted, so how are you going to charge me". With a large enough number, a lot will take plea deals and say "yeah I did it, don't send me to jail". Then you say "all these guys admitted to it".

 

[Antdawg]

I'm not a legal expert and won't pretend to be, but the more I delve into this, I think there's a good chance Kraft gets charges dropped.

 

[Tunescribe]

Man, why can't we have a single ****ing superbowl win without some drama. Really. Just one.

I don't recall any extraneous crap affecting the first three.